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Here is how the ultra-rich do it....sm


Posted: Dec 30, 2015

Equal blame goes to the 1% no matter their party, led by the Koch brothers and George Soros.

;

Whenever I hear "well, they pay the majority of - the taxes in this country"

[ In Reply To ..]
I cannot believe that Fox et al pulled the wool over gullible eyes again.

OF COURSE they pay the most tax. Figure it out. If you make $100,000 (a multiplication of our salary usually), you pay 15% or $15,000. You make $1,000,000 you SHOULD pay 15% or $150,000. What the heck is wrong with that?

Why should we, making $30,000 (a generous assessment for most MTs I think) pay 15% i.e. $4500, then think it's horrible for people making $1 million to pay the same percentage of their earnings? Not that they do, of course, as per the link.

The real difference is that they can afford it, but it just about kills us.

But go right ahead and rah rah all the millionaires. Fox News loves when they get people to repeat that idiotic meme.

How about the one "Well they create all the jobs"? nm - VTMT

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Yeah...jobs for bankers, lawyers, lobbyists, congressmen - and hedge-fund managers. nm

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A very slyly written piece with several core items of - information omitted and others obfuscated.

[ In Reply To ..]
Mingling different units of measure (fractions, percentages, numbers) along with relative terms. Here excluding payroll taxes, there including them.

Note that nothing in this article refutes the fact that the top 5% still pay around 60% in taxes. There's also nothing whatsoever, of course, about the enormous amounts of charitable giving.

Okay - altogether now: WE HATE THE (fact that we're not) RICH!

We hate the fact that they are getting rich - off of us

[ In Reply To ..]
Moral dilemma---would we hate it if we were the rich?

When just 15 people accumulate more wealth.... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
in two years than the bottom 100 million people combined something is not right! Bernie Sanders gets my vote, not because of anything "free" I will get but because he is the only candidate that cannot be bought by lobbyists or big money. He is in it to win it for we the American people. #feelthebern
You're quite wrong, of course. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
Drill down past the envy. Force yourself to exercise mental discipline, and the place to start is with first-order definitions (e.g. "fairness") before you begin to use these concepts in forming logical constructs that depend for their coherence on such definitions.
Nope. No envy here. I do quite well.... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
thank you very much. I just support the people who are struggling, our military and veterans, seniors, hungry children, refugees. I am of the opinion that to whom much has been given much is expected. I am a Christian. You?

No, there are moral people who are rich - Nick Hanauer for example

[ In Reply To ..]
I personally cannot even contemplate even becoming a QA because I would be docking the pay of MTs, although I have a degree and could easily become a hospital executive if I wished.

It is a moral dilemma, but it's easy. If I were rich I would do as that guy from Gravity Payments, pay everyone a living wage of $70,000.

Apparently, multinational corporations now are not calling the shots anymore, the oligarchs are. That means Koch, Murdoch, Sheldon Adelson, et al. They are also buying our presidential candidates, at least on the Republican side.

I think the Fox News/right wing media brigade feeds this delusion that we will all become millionaires at some stage so have even this choice. Not true at all. The chance that we will become millionaires is not good. We should get over that idea.

Again, even if I would become a millionaire, I would not say screw you to those beneath me, like so many seem to do. Disgusting.

They do NOT pay 60% tax - perhaps only the amount over $400,000

[ In Reply To ..]
NOT the entire income.

Gosh, do they ever get tired of moaning? They have great lives, great incomes, yachts, homes everywhere, yet never enough.

I DO NOT HATE THE FACT I AM NOT RICH!

I can't even stomach what it would take to become a QA (docking the salaries of MTs) much less earning that kind of income.

We are NEVER going to get rich, unless you reading this are a MTSO owner willing to sell to the highest bidder. So might as well respect each other.

You misunderstand. Not 60% of their income. 60% - of the tax dollars collected by the US.

[ In Reply To ..]
The wealthy pay, by far, the vast majority of the tax dollars collected by federal, state and local governments from individuals in this country, while about 50% of the taxable individuals in the country pay in less than 10% of the tax dollars.

And yet they still do not pay the same percentage - of their income as we do
[ In Reply To ..]
Also, because they have made their own tax system as per that article, this country needs to get the money to run it from somewhere.

I think if you look at the income the very rich TAKE from this country compared to the taxes they put back in, it is nowhere near where it should be.

Another aspect of this - some of the very rich are the ones who have also finagled it so people like us have the constantly shrinking incomes and lack of jobs - between offshoring and computerizing everything - and they keep the profits gained from that completely for themselves.

How are we to make more money and pay more taxes if our incomes are limited due to the deregulation of the labor market that took place during the Bush years, which the wealthy business owners were only too happy to perpetrate?
First of all, if you read the article you see that this "private tax system" - is exploited by a relative few of the wealthy.
[ In Reply To ..]

I know how difficult it is to penetrate the fog of this article, but let's not think that "all the wealthy do this", okay?  It simply isn't true.


As to percentage of income paid, in 2013 the CBO states that the top quintile of earners paid 29% average, while the bottom quintile paid 2%. 


As to the total dollars of income tax paid into the federal government in 2013, it looks like this:



Take the top 3 rows (the lowest income groups) and add them up.  They comprise just over 63% of the returns filed, and they contributed only 6.2% of the total tax revenues received.


Now, take the bottom 3 rows, the top income groups.  These people represent only 15% of the returns filed, and yet they paid in over 77% of the tax revenues collected by the government.


Oops!  Looks like our tax code is already pretty progressive.  And please note, these are ACTUAL DOLLARS PAID IN as reported by the IRS, so any form of tax shenanigans have no relevancy here.  These are the dollars that were actually paid in, AFTER any and all tax reduction methods, tricks, shenanigans, loopholes or whatever were employed. In other words, checks written to the US Treasury and cashed.


It will be a very good thing when everyone like you no longer permit yourselves to be led around by the nose by class-envy merchants like Bernie Sanders.  Realize that they have absolutely NO interest in telling the WHOLE truth, and are heavily invested in you believing lies and half-truths.  Learn how to investigate the facts for yourself, better than you're doing now.


And I'll tell you something else.  We've seen the impact of high taxes on the wealthy and on corporations in this country, if you would care to look into some history of taxation.  And what happens when you squeeze them too far, they do one thing, invariably:  They simply head for the exits.  They take their money and they take their companies (in both cases, meaning jobs), and they go somewhere where there aren't quite so many greedy fingers in their pockets.


So would I, and so would you.  You might say you wouldn't and some would believe you, but millions won't.


Ask the guy who works making yachts or the guy who earns his bread constructing luxury homes if they want to see MORE yachts and MORE luxury homes being constructed, or FEWER.  Then, ask them if they'd like to see them being constructed here in the US, or in some other country.  


We don't have to guess what they would say, do we?


It's all a matter of perspective, now, isn't it?  You just don't happen to work building yachts.  You don't build luxury homes.  You don't sell Manhattan condominiums.  You don't cut diamonds.  You don't operate a bed-and-breakfast in Carmel. How do I know these things?  I'll let you guess.  Your class hatred and envy simply drip from every one of your posts.


Let me give you another bit of tax wisdom, from Judge Learned Hand.  It describes the legal obligation of the taxpayer - rich or poor - with respect to the tax code succinctly:


"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.  Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."


 


 


 


 


 


 

I do NOT care if the very wealthy leave the country - they might as well
[ In Reply To ..]
Their money left a long time ago.

Class hatred and envy? Please. I do not have an envious bone in my body. I do NOT care about money AT ALL, hard to believe for someone like you I imagine. What I do care about is getting fairly paid for my good work, which has not happened for years, and there are many like me in other jobs.

Poor guy "who works making yachts or the guy who earns his bread constructing luxury homes if they want to see MORE yachts and MORE luxury homes being constructed, or FEWER. Then, ask them if they'd like to see them being constructed here in the US, or in some other country."

Oh yeah, THEN that poor guy says, "Well, because I can pay the people in other countries pennies on the dollar, I'm going there, and you better not tax me AT ALL or I'm gone." Just like our MT jobs.

I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Can I ask if you are an MT? Because it seems like you are REALLY sympathizing A LOT with these guys who build yachts et al, and if you are an MT I don't get that. Sounds more like you are an MTSO owner, now that is right in line with yacht owners and luxury builders.

And no that's not envy, it's disgust.
Your chart just proves that the bulk of taxes paid - are those over $250,000
[ In Reply To ..]
So that means those people got taxed pretty lightly until they hit $250,000, then they got taxed pretty much. So?

Just think about that for a second.

I'm not cryin' for them, really.
What??!! The chart represents a product of 2 numbers. - Sheesh.
[ In Reply To ..]
I don't know what's happened to people's ability to think, or to interpret graphical data.

Oh, and incidentally, "feeling sorry" for anyone isn't even remotely an issue in this discussion so I've no idea where in the world that comes from. Tax policy has nothing to do with feelings of any sort.

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