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Repeal of ACA may be illegal?


Posted: Nov 11, 2014

Does Josh Gruber's admission there was "lack of transparency" bother me personally? Sure it does. But considering most members of congress were lawyers previously, which are pretty much like glorified used car salesmen, this is not exactly a news scoop. In the clips I saw, Gruber also said that though he wished things had been done differently, it WAS important we pass this law, as well as there was virtually no difference between Romneycare and Obamacare. Even if the House could get Senate to pass repeal now, Obama would veto it. And the problem with passing it in the house is that it may be illegal to do so. The article in the link below purports that per Senate law passed in 1974 called the Byrd Rule, it is illegal to repeal any law if the cost of doing so would increase the budget deficit to do so, among other restrictions. I've never read news from this site before, but the Byrd Rule does check out. So, just stating the obvious, but why would we want to do anything that increases the budge deficit when that's the whole point? And do we really want to repeal the entire thing anyway or just fix the problems? If so, and it stays within budget, then there may be a shot.;

Sorry, my bad, sentence should've read... - Free Speech is for Everyone

[ In Reply To ..]
"And the problem with passing it in the SENATE is it may be illegal to do so"

...not the House;)

(The House has already passed a bill to repeal the ACA several times, the Senate has been the problem.)

Sorry 'bout dat :)

First of all, that's a misstatement of the Byrd Rule. - Second.... sm

[ In Reply To ..]
...we cannot allow "the ends justifies the means" to become the modus operandi of our government. Do you know how many vile governmental actions have been perpetrated throughout history under that false flag?

Akin to this - and often riding the same horse as the justification - is "it's good for the country". Even now, Obama threatens to unilaterally usurp the power of Congress in the matter of imigration reform and offers as his justification that "it's what the country needs, so I'm going to do it".

We don't have a form of government in which one man - even the President - makes himself the arbiter of "what's good for the country", and I can guarantee you that as much as you might like this under Obama (assuming you comport with his weird ideas), you WOULD NOT LIKE IT under a different President.

In fact, NONE of this is how government is supposed to work in the American system of democracy. And I'm rather amazed at how easily you shrug off the despicable and DELIBERATELY deceptive actions that were taken by both the Administration and the Democrats in getting Obamacare passed - "for our good", of course, on the grounds that Americans are too "stupid" to know what's good for us. We're children, and you have to hide the spinach from us in the mashed potatoes or we won't eat it.

By God, says Obama - EAT YOUR SPINACH, DAMN YOU!

Oh, and by the way - while we're at it, we'll lie to the CBO as well by using such deliberately tortuous language in the bill that they won't be able to rate the cost of the bill correctly.

Is there ANYTHING that you won't tolerate in this administration? Anything at all?

Now, as to the Byrd Rule. In the first place, this is merely a procedural rule in the Senate - not a law, and only a law can make anything "illegal". Furthermore, it merely ALLOWS Senators to object to a bill if it increases the deficit SIGNIFICANTLY, OVER A TEN-YEAR PERIOD. Now, that might give the Democrats an opening to block a bill to repeal Obamacare except for one little problem (or actually, a fatal problem), which is that it's much more likely that repealing Obamacare would DECREASE the budget deficit, NOT INCREASE IT. Take a look at the signup numbers - which were pathetic to begin with and just revised DOWNWARD by 30%! - relative to the break-even point, and take a look at the projected cost of Obamacare out to 2020, and you'll get the picture.


Not shrugging off anything. Bush lied, Obama lied. What can I do? - Free Speech is for Everyone

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm a nobody. I meant that I'm just getting used to feeling powerless with politicians at that level.

Additionally, I believe the article author stated that the CBO has already stated the cost to repeal the act, at this point, would be extravagant (but I'm searching for verification on that.)

The 10-year rule is not the only rule, see the link.

This is why I am for the line-item veto, which presidents of both parties have wanted since Reagan introduced the idea and Clinton later echoed this opinion.

My point is not that it can't be done, it's just not as easy as it seems and Obama probably WILL veto any attempt.

Does it have to be all or nothing?

Why can't we find compromise?

Yeah - I can hear the outrage dripping from your - post.

[ In Reply To ..]
"Everyone lies, so what?" Boy, is that stinkin' thinkin', or what? This wasn't lies - this was lies on steroids that should outrage every American regardless of their position on Obamacare, but somehow I'm just not getting that from your post.

I'm very familiar with the Byrd Rule, and referred to the portion of it that's relevant to this discussion. As I said, it's merely a procedural rule, and would not likely give Democrats an opening to block a bill to repeat the ACA anyway, by its very terms.

(Note: I was around and paying attention when the Byrd Rule was passed. It didn't just come to my attention yesterday.)

Learned Helplessness Theory - Free Speech is for Everyone
[ In Reply To ..]
Ever read about "learned helplessness theory? It is actually a biological, political and socioeconomic theory - see the link below.

However, it is just a theory because not every individual responds to the same stimulus the same way, but "typical response" are the operative words.

It purports that in any living organism, powerlessness most often leads to depression rather than outrage (or at least depression after initial outrage).

In fact, this is where the "glass ceiling" phrase was coined.

The lab rat smells the food, runs through the maze trying to reach it but discovers it's above him in a glass ceiling that has holes in it. So he can smell it, see it, but he is not allowed to reach it.

So will it help if the rat gets angry and stages a protest or a military coup at the injustice and deception?

Should he become outraged and just keep trying to get past the glass ceiling over time?

Or should he just accept that he has no control over the situation, which is the actual truth?

So he keeps trying, becoming outraged, but there is simply no way for the lab rat to ever reach the food until someone removes the glass ceiling.

Unfair, isn't it?

And in fact, after the rat has bloodied his nose by hitting the wall repeatedly, he lies down in a state of abject lethargy in acceptance of his fate.

Until the experimenter removes the glass and the experiment is over.

Cruel, isn't it?

Nothing you can do until those above us or in control remove the glass.

This can be applied both politically and socioeconomically, but yes, depression is the usual result, not outrage.

And history has shown us that in the real world, rebellions are most often shut down by those in control and outrage can get you in trouble - especially in certain forums.

Well, at least she THINKS. Most righties don't. - .
[ In Reply To ..]

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