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Online petition making the rounds

Posted: Jan 11, 2013

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: ban hammers and baseball bats. In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618. In 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. It's clearly time to take action on hammers and baseball bats Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/hammers/2013/01/11/white-house-petition-ban-hammers-and-baseball-bats#ixzz2Hgn5ojY5;

I don't see that as tongue-in-cheek at all - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I see it as the petulant, flippant childishness of those who lack insight. There is nothing tongue-in-cheek about our need to respond to gun violence on the heels of 20 children riddled with bullets, for crying out loud.

Well put. And let's do make sure those children - aren't quickly and conveniently forgotten. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

BTDT. Outdated selective data designed to deceive does not - succeed in turning fiction to fact.

[ In Reply To ..]

Repost from Jan 3:

Using 2011 figures, guns (the number one killer weapon) are used in more than 2/3rds of all homicides. In other words, they are chosen by a 2:1 margin over all other weapon types COMBINED.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
Murder Victims
by Weapon, 2007–2011
Weapons	2007	2008	2009	2010	2011
Total	14,916	14,224	13,752	13,164	12,664
Total firearms:	10,129	9,528	9,199	8,874	8,583
Handguns	7,398	6,800	6,501	6,115	6,220
Rifles	453	380	351	367	323
Shotguns	457	442	423	366	356
Other guns	116	81	96	93	97
Firearms, type not stated	1,705	1,825	1,828	1,933	1,587
Knives or cutting instruments	1,817	1,888	1,836	1,732	1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.)	647	603	623	549	496
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)¹	869	875	817	769	728
Poison	10	9	7	11	5
Explosives	1	11	2	4	12
Fire	131	85	98	78	75
Narcotics	52	34	52	45	29
Drowning	12	16	8	10	15
Strangulation	134	89	122	122	85
Asphyxiation	109	87	84	98	89
Other weapons or weapons not stated	1,005	999	904	872	853

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Excellent! Facts trump lies every time. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

The data in the petition is correct, then, - according to your chart

[ In Reply To ..]
And the tongue-in-cheek petition is good at proving a specific point.

Yep. Well documented - sm

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2011: 323 murders committed with a rifle, 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.

what would be important to know... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
is the FBI classification of firearms. Do we know what the category "rifle" includes? It's not easy information to find, but I don't believe nonsporting guns are considered rifles. I doubt very much the NRA would clarify this for us.

Yet the conclusions are twisted to deceive. Contemptible. - The issue is guns, not just "rifles." It

[ In Reply To ..]
about assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and it's about limiting access to all guns to those we all agree shouldn't have them.

Au contraire - the "issue" is assault rifles - according to Washington

[ In Reply To ..]
Therefore, the data referring to only rifles is relevant. The comparison to hammers/clubs is used to make a point, and a valid one, I think.

We all know what it's about. Gun control. Gun deaths that - now almost equal traffic deaths.nm

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x

Better ban cars, then. - J/K (but not really)

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lol

that won't stop death by firearm, now, would it? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

it would stop death by cars, now, wouldn't it? - nm

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.

it would also stop us from going to work - sm

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the question is: What would a ban on assault weapons stop someone from doing?

and by the way, forgot to add... - sm

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we all agree cars should be registered. Some people even get their cars taken away.

We all agree guns should be registered - but

[ In Reply To ..]
the proposals being made are to take away even registered guns. All kinds, not just assault rifles.

there is no such proposal, for goodness sake - are we just saying anything?

[ In Reply To ..]

Biden, US gun lobby clash over gun control proposals; - sm

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VP to send Obama his agenda by Tuesday

http://news.yahoo.com/biden-us-gun-lobby-clash-over-gun-control-062304291.html

and nowhere does it mention banning ALL guns - (which was the subject here)

[ In Reply To ..]
you're tilting at windmills.

The last sentence is telling - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
http://www.vpc.org/studies/unsafe.htm

that's the Violence Policy Center - not Biden, not the administration - please stay on topic

[ In Reply To ..]
how ironic that you keep providing a moving target for debate.

Nobody seems to get it. It's not the legal gun owners or guns - backwards typist

[ In Reply To ..]
that cause the problem. It's gangs, drug dealers, robbers, etc. who buy stolen and/or illegally by other means get guns to use them for illegal activity.

Did you ever see a gangster turn in a gun during gun buyouts? Of course not. That's because they aren't ever going to give up their guns.

All the gun advocates and stricter gun control laws are going to do is make criminals out of legal gun owners. Yet, none of them, including Biden and the President, want to hear that. Biden keeps saying it's what the people want. That's because he's NOT LISTENING to the people, just to the President and gun control advocates.

When gun control goes into effect, watch and see how many legal gun owners will turn into criminals through their laws....and watch and see how many true criminals will sit back and laugh at the stupid laws. It will be mighty easy pickin's for them then.

I disagree. About 74% of even NRA members - are for stricter regulation SM

[ In Reply To ..]
on buying guns. Most logical thinking people in this country agree. How would a legal gun owner be breaking any laws if the law was to have univeral background checks on all guns purchased, putting a stop to these gun shows where there is no background check, banning high-capacity clips? What responsible gun owner needs those? You are just perpetuating the fear mongers from the gun industry, who BTW care nothing about gun safety and only care about profit.

How do you classify James Holmes? - Gangster? Robber? Drug dealer?

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Proposal to take away registered guns? Where - did you get that from? NM

[ In Reply To ..]
x

the data flies; the conclusion does not - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
The petition is not good at proving a specific point. Homicide by hammer is hardly germane if the SUBJECT is homicide by firearm. I'm sorry you think otherwise, but it hardly makes sense.

If we are on a campaign to reduce deaths from drowning, it would hardly be reasonable to bring into the debate the number of deaths from drunk driving, now wouldn't it?

Here's a comparison - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
People want to ban assault rifles to reduce gun deaths.

Would they also want to ban swimming pools/bath tubs to reduce deaths from drowning?

and here's where I shoot holes in it... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Do you think reducing gun deaths has anything whatsoever to do with hammers? Dont' be silly.

I guess the dislikes didn't like that logic. - no surprise there

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kind of leaves y'all with nowhere to go, I guess?

it wasn't logic - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Of course it was. You just didn't like it. - sm

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Logic does follow rules, even if you don't.

Here's the point that's being missed (or conveniently ignored) - Al Fabbet

[ In Reply To ..]
People want to ban the ability to go into a crowded area and not just injure - but KILL - multiple people quickly and effectively. Don't get bent at those who want tighter restrictions on the weapons that have the capacity do this AND ARE MADE FOR THIS PURPOSE. It's common sense for crying out loud. Give me a break... when was the last time there was a mass killing via bathtub, hammer, or baseball bat? Unfortunately, the rifle is the prefered weapon of choice. But you already knew this, didn't you?

I guess the dislikes didn't like that logic - ;)

[ In Reply To ..]
~

it wasn't logic - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

Of course it was. You just didn't like it. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

no dear... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
It was not logic. And you can copy and paste my responses back at me until the cows come home. I realize it's a big time saver for you, and you must get a big kick out of it, but it doesn't make you or your argument sensible.

oh dear - irony is lost

[ In Reply To ..]
.

apologies. (sometimes I take things too seriously.) - nm

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no...we wouldn't call that a comparison - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
we would call that foolishness. Swimming pools and bathtubs were invented for swimming and bathing. What do you think assault rifles were invented for? Think about what you're saying.

does it matter what they were invented for - if they still cause deaths?

[ In Reply To ..]
?

YES!! Bathtubs and guns are not comparable! - ack!

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This is a nonsensical style of debate. We don't have a bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Bathroom Fixtures. Your argument is totally inane.

Sure is fun pushing your buttons, though - ;)

[ In Reply To ..]
Seriously, though, lets enforce the gun laws that we have and try to prevent tragedies from happening. We don't need a whole new set of gun laws.

People enjoy swimming in pools, and bathe in tubs. - Assault weapons SM

[ In Reply To ..]
have only one purpose. To kill as many people as possible in a short amount of time. No comparison. Name one good reason someone would want/need an assault weapon (other than the military/police).

golly. where did the poor taste police go? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Or do they only rear their heads when the post goes against the official opinion of the gun lobby? This is tongue-in-cheek, of course. No need to get upset.

joking about dead children - Effie

[ In Reply To ..]
A dear friend of mine lost her nephew at Sandy Hook... twenty dead children are not a joke..

Nobody's joking about dead children - -

[ In Reply To ..]
Very sorry for your friend's loss.

The "joke" is about peoples' generalizations, stereotyping, and assumptions, and the govt's using the Sandy Hook tragedy to overreach into private citizens' lives.

contrary to your opinion... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I see no generalization, no stereotyping, no assumptions. Nor do I see government overreach into the lives of private citizens. Can you bolster any of your viewpoints?

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