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Obama proposes states opt-out from

Posted: Sep 24, 2011

No child left behind education law.

I'm glad....that was a stupid law that did more harm than good IMO.

;

That's something new. - Shocked

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A conservative who claims to actually like something President Obama has done. Did he11 just freeze over?

Instead of being happy with my praise - Conservative MT

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of the president, you instead make fun. Wish I could say I was shocked at your reaction, but I'm not because this type of rudeness occurs daily on this board...and I must say...it is getting very old. I'm smart enough to realize there is both good and bad in both political parties and I do give credit where it is due. Wish others could think outside of their little political boxes.

This left of lib agrees with you 100%. - sm

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Now excuse me while I post what I think is a more appropriate response to your OP that tries to address the issue.

More harm than good case study - another Texas miracle. sm

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NCLB sounded great on paper but didn't turn out so well in practice. Fraught with fraud and abuse in Texas from the get-go under Perry's watch as the article below demonstrates. Texas ranks dead last in numbers of adults with high school diplomas. Despite an 11-point rise between 1994 and 2003, as of February 2010, only 61.3% of all students enrolled in 9th grade make it to graduation, with a national ranking of 45th. Here are a couple of NCLB horror stories. Sorry it's so long, but well worth the read, especially for the antecdotal content. One can only hope Perry will take the opt-out ball and run with it (should be right up his alley), as it appears things really couldn't get much worse.

The "Texas Miracle"

(CBS) It was called the "Texas Miracle," a phrase you may remember because President Bush wanted everyone to know about it during his 2000 presidential campaign.

It was an approach to education that was showing amazing results, particularly in Houston, where dropout rates plunged and test scores soared.

Houston School Superintendent Rod Paige was given credit for the schools' success, by making principals and administrators accountable for how well their students did.

Once he was elected president, Mr. Bush named Paige as secretary of education. And Houston became the model for the president's "No Child Left Behind" education reform act.

Now, as Correspondent Dan Rather reported last winter, it turns out that some of those miraculous claims which Houston made were wrong.

And it all came to light when one assistant principal took a close look at his school's phenomenally low dropout rates – and found that they were just too good to be true.

"I was shocked. I said, 'How can that be,'" says Robert Kimball, an assistant principal at Sharpstown High School, on Houston's West Side. His school claimed that no students – not a single one – had dropped out in 2001-2002.

But that's not what Kimball saw: "I had been at the high school for three years, and I had seen many, many students, several hundred a year, go out the door. And I knew that they were quitting. They told me they were quitting."

Most of the 1,700 students at Sharpstown High are under-privileged immigrants -- prime candidates for dropping out.

One student was Jennys Franco Gomez. She dropped out of Sharpstown in 2001 for an all-too-familiar reason: she had a baby. "My baby got sick, and I don't have nobody to take care of my baby and take it to the doctor," she says.

The high school reported that Gomez left to get a GED, or equivalency diploma, which doesn't count as a dropout. But Gomez says she never told school officials anything of the sort.

All in all, 463 kids left Sharpstown High School that year, for a variety of reasons. The school reported zero dropouts, but dozens of the students did just that. School officials hid that fact by classifying, or coding, them as leaving for acceptable reasons: transferring to another school, or returning to their native country.

"That's how you get to zero dropouts. By assigning codes that say, 'Well, this student, you know, went to another school. He did this or that.' And basically, all 463 students disappeared. And the school reported zero dropouts for the year," says Kimball. "They were not counted as dropouts, so the school had an outstanding record."

Sharpstown High wasn't the only "outstanding" school. The Houston school district reported a citywide dropout rate of 1.5 percent. But educators and experts 60 Minutes checked with put Houston's true dropout rate somewhere between 25 and 50 percent.

"But the teachers didn't believe it. They knew it was cooking the books. They told me that. Parents told me that," says Kimball. "The superintendent of schools would make the public believe it was one school. But it is in the system, it is in all of Houston."

Those low dropout rates – in Houston and all of Texas - were one of the accomplishments then-Texas Gov. George Bush cited when he campaigned to become the "Education President."

At that time, Paige was running Houston's schools, and he had instituted a policy of holding principals accountable for how their students did. Principals worked under one-year contracts, and each year, the school district set strict goals in areas like dropout rates and test scores.

Principals who met the goals got cash bonuses of up to $5,000, and other perks. Those who fell short were transferred, demoted or forced out.

Kimball took his findings about Sharpstown High to CBS affiliate KHOU-TV, which first reported the dropout scandal.

Then, he went to State Rep. Rick Noriega. In Noriega's largely Hispanic, mostly poor district, many kids start high school, but never finish.

"In my district in particular, where I have many of my high schools, 1,000 ninth-grade students, yet only approx 300 or so will walk the stage four years later and receive a diploma. A big question should go off in people's heads, where are the other students?" says Noriega, who asked the state to find out.

Investigators checked half of the city's regular high schools. They reviewed the records of nearly 5,500 students who left those schools, and checked how the schools explained it. They found that almost 3,000 students should have been, but weren't, coded as dropouts. The audit substantiated Kimball's allegations.

"The problem is the lack of integrity that's being demonstrated when you say there's such a low dropout rate, when we know, everyone knows, that 30 to 40 percent of the kids are dropping out of schools," says Kimball.

60 Minutes wanted to ask Houston school officials about Kimball's charges, but they wouldn't talk on camera. They said they wouldn't "get a fair shake." But they did meet off camera, and they argued that the audit proved outright fraud only at Sharpstown High.

At the other schools, they contended, the false statistics were due to "confusion" about the complex state system for coding students, and sloppy bookkeeping. They conceded, however, that Houston's "official" 1.5 percent dropout rate was not accurate.

Those officials also urged 60 Minutes to get a better picture of the Houston school system on by talking on camera to Rob Mosbacher, a Houston businessman, school supporter and Republican activist.

"I think the district looks at the challenges it has, and sets high expectations. And that's something that makes all of us very proud. Because they've been making the progress that shows that expectations can be realized," says Mosbacher.

60 Minutes also tried to talk to Paige himself, but he declined. His spokesman said the dropout controversy broke after Paige left Houston to become education secretary. And he said the phony statistics at Sharpstown were the work of a few individuals.

Paige's spokesman suggested that 60 Minutes talk to Jay Greene, a leading expert on dropouts at the Manhattan Institute. Greene supports the kind of accountability reforms Paige enacted in Houston.

But this is what Greene said when asked what he thought about Houston's "official" dropout rates: "I find that very hard to believe. It is almost certainly not true. I think it's simply implausible. I think a reasonable guess is that almost half of Houston's students do not graduate from high school."

Greene also points out that Houston's dropout problem is no worse than that of school systems in many other large American cities: "I think they are doing about as well as most urban school districts, which is to say not very well … I don't think they've been doing super well."

Houston also won national acclaim for raising the average scores on a statewide achievement test that was given to 10th graders. Principals were judged on how well their students did on the test.

But at Houston schools, Kimball says, principals taught addition by subtraction: They raised average test scores by keeping low-performing kids from taking the test. And in some cases, that meant keeping kids from getting to the 10th grade at all.

"What the schools did, and what Sharpstown High School did, they said, 'OK, you cannot go to the 10th grade unless you pass all these courses in the 9th grade," says Kimball.

What's wrong with that? Wouldn't this help students get the basics down before moving on?

"Because you failed algebra, you may be in the ninth grade three years, until you pass the course. But that's not a social promotion if you just allowed the student to go to 10th grade, just you know, let him take algebra again, and work on it there."

That's just what happened to Perla Arredondo. She passed all her courses in ninth grade, but was then told she had to repeat the same grade and the same courses.

"I went to my counselor's office, and I told her, 'You're giving me the wrong classes, because I already passed 'em," says Perla. "So she said, 'Don't worry about it. I know what I'm doing. That's my job.'"

Perla spent three years in the ninth grade. She failed algebra, but passed it in summer school. Finally, she was promoted – right past 10th grade and that important test -- and into the 11th. Without enough credits to graduate, Perla dropped out. While she worked as a cashier, a secretary, and a waitress, she learned an important lesson: "I know I can't get a good job without a high school diploma. You know? I can get a job as a waitress. I mean, and I don't wanna be doing that all my life."

Why? "For my dad and mom. You know, I wanna give 'em, I want them to be proud, you know," says Perla. "That's another thing I want. I want them to be, you know, proud of what I am."

Gilbert Moreno has seen many Perla Arredondos. He runs a school filled with dropouts.

"There are some horrible stories," says Moreno, who is director of the Association for the Advancement of Mexican-Americans, which operates a private, non-profit charter high school for disadvantaged kids.

"A youngster passed, say, five different subjects, passed the English, but wasn't given the algebra, and then was later told, at the end of the year, 'Well, you're not gonna pass to the 10th grade. You never passed algebra. You never took algebra,'" says Moreno. "And the youngster goes, 'I never knew this.' And it looks almost that there was an attempt to maybe identify some certain students and not give them the required curriculum."

There is no state audit to back up this claim, but Moreno points out that many Houston high schools have bulging ninth grades, and very small 10th grades. One school, he says, held back more than 60 percent of its ninth-graders.

School officials say students are held back because they're not ready for the next grade. They deny that they were held back to avoid the test.

Students and teachers at Moreno's charter school showed 60 Minutes that dropouts are not a lost cause. Former dropouts get help here to stay in school. Classes are small, there is daycare for students with children, and programs to combat drugs and gangs.

There was determination, ambition and hope in their voices.

Roscio dreams of becoming a cartoonist. "I'm really good at drawing," he says.

"Right now, I want to go to med school and continue to become a pediatrician," says Victor.

And Vanessa dreams of becoming a journalist.

Noriega says Houston school officials focus on statistics instead of real problems: "That's the issue. It's the kids, stupid. And people continue to wanna spin around it all, and lose sight of it all. And it's Kimball, and it's just one school, and it's this and it's that. And it's not."

If that sounds like a political statement, it's because questions about the Houston school miracle are now being raised in Washington.

And Education Secretary Paige, who declined to give 60 Minutes an interview, responded to those questions in a speech in Houston just before Christmas 2003: "Critics come after the school district in Houston. Not Sacramento, not Denver, Boston or Los Angeles. It is Houston that they put on the front page. They come after you, not because of an interest in quality education, but because of where you live."

And in the case of whistle-blower Kimball, school officials have denounced him as incompetent, and transferred him to a primary school for kindergarten through second grade, where he is the second assistant principal.

"The district felt that, by sending me down there, somebody who's taught at university level, taught at high school level, and middle school level, would be humiliated at a low primary school, but I'm telling you that I love it," says Kimball, who adds he isn't going to quit.

After 60 Minutes broadcast that story, Robert Kimball filed a whistle-blower suit against the Houston School District for retaliating against him.

The school board dropped its reprimand and paid Kimball $90,000. Kimball resigned and is now teaching at a local university. A few weeks later, three top school board officials, including Superintendent Kay Stripling, resigned their posts.

State Representative Rick Noriega, a major in the Army Reserves, is now on active duty in Afghanistan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/60II/main591676.shtml

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/feb/05/bill-white/texas-has-43rd-best-graduation-rate-united-states/

I just think government - Conservative MT

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needs to stay out of education. It seems like the more government gets involved in things, the more money is being spent with little to no results.

I think No Child Left Behind was passed with good intentions but it just didn't work and I think it dumbed down our education more than anything. So kudos to Obama for proposing an opt out.

As for Gov. Perry...I don't like him much. The more and more and I learn about him, the less and less I like him. Plus, he just seemed so arrogant at the debate. When anyone dared criticize him he had this arrogant grin on his face with his eyebrows raised. I wanted to smack him. I've had enough arrogance with Obama. We don't need another arrogant president who can't take criticism.

I agree they should stay away from curriculum - and educational standards but

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I think they have a limited role to play in other areas such as insuring equal access to education, privacy and civil rights protection, and collection of data to assess funding priorities, national competitive assets and deficits.

Considering how late Perry entered the race, it is remarkable how quickly you honed in on the infamous smirk and the permanently arched brows. He's been my gov forever and a day, and though it's really not my business one way or the other, I hope you follow your gut on this, especially if you are tired of arrogant. If you saw the last debate, you probably have figured out why he typically shys away from them all together. He style is more one of mounting a podium far above the crowd and issuing my-way-or-the-highway imPERRYtives.

If you care to share, which primary candidate do you like the best and what do you like about him or her?

There isn't one candidate who - Conservative MT

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has everything I like. I'd like to get rid of Huntsman, Perry, Romney, Bachmann, Paul and the Newt.

I really like Rick Santorum because he is conservative but I don't like that he wants us to stay in the Middle East. I think we need to pull out and bring our troops home...so there is something I don't agree with him on. I know he wants to repeal DADT but I have mixed feelings on that. I can see both sides to that so I don't agree or disagree to a point on that.

I really like Herman Cain to be honest with you. He seems like a very likable guy who tells it how it is. He knows how business works and knows how to create jobs. Now his shortfalls would be foreign policy obviously, but our current president didn't have a lot of experience either and I'd much rather go with a business man than a lawyer. ;) I believe a business man would know the best way to encourage people to invest and hire people, etc. Obviously the laywers in Washington don't have a clue.

I will vote republican no matter who the GOP nominee is because I don't think we can survive another term of Obama. However, I would really love to be able to vote for someone I like instead of voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I don't know that Santorum has enough charisma because let's face it....Obama is charismatic whether you like him or not.

I have a feeling we will end up with Romney though and I'm annoyed by that fact. Romney is somewhat charismatic...but charisma won't get us out of our mess.

So long story short....I'm really leaning towards Herman Cain. I'm still doing some research and checking people out though. Nothing is set in stone for me. I'm not going to blindly jump on any band wagon.

Cain for President - ME

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I wish I had a bumper sticker that said Herman Cain The REAL Black President!

I'm a white conservative and I have beel following Herman Cain for years. I trust him, and I know he'll do a good job and choose the right people and I hope he chooses Newt for VP. Love to see another CAININITE. ha ha

I don't want Newt for pres or VP - Conservative MT

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I think Newt just has too much political baggage. We need someone who the people can trust. I kinda like Marco Rubio. I need to do some more research on him but I think he would be a good pick for VP. Just my opinion though.

Thanks for this interesting reply. - sm

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Out front I would like to say I appreciate your post for its civility and straightforward honesty, something unfortunately is all too often lacking on this forum, coming from both sides. I am just as guilty as the next person of contributing to that as I tend to take my cues from the tone of the post to which I am replying. It’s really nice to have the chance to talk this way to someone whose political views are probably exactly opposite of mine, to see if there is any common ground between us. I think there is. I'm intrigued by some of your answers

I felt the same way about Bush in 2004 you feel about Obama now, and wasn’t really all that impressed with the democratic primary candidates. Being the left of liberal I am, my pick would have been Dennis Kucinich, whom I would have no reservations about supporting and who also did not have a prayer of actually winning the nomination. My least favorite was Joe Lieberman, but had he won the nomination, because of my strong opposition to Bush, I would have held my nose and cast that lesser-of-2-evils vote anyway, even though when I was younger, I sat out several presidential elections, refusing to do just that (vote for someone I did not support 100%).

Clinton and Obama came about as close as any to being candidates I felt I could support, but both of them turned out to be much more moderate than I thought they were during the campaigns. It seems as though something happened to both of them after they got to the White House, and I would not be surprised if that happens again should the GOP candidate end up there next time. That you are feeling that same kind of ambivalence I felt, I think, is a strong indicator of just how badly we need campaign finance reform and expansion beyond this extremely frustrating current 2-party system. Another symptom of that problem is the evolution of the Tea Party and their sort of love-hate relationship with the GOP, for lack of a better way to describe it.

I had the same problem with Obama in 2008 you have with Rick Santorum now. I am curious about why you think we should pull out of the Middle East. I suspect your reasons may be based on economics and finance or maybe feeling conflicted with the overall missions there, while my stance on that falls into the more nebulous category of intractable anti-war peacenik. I have to admit that I am surprised a self-identified conservative would be more moderate than I ever could be on a social issue such as DADT. I think on that one I have just been alive too long to have witnessed the hard-fought seemingly endless struggle gays have had in the civil rights arena and would not like to see the significant progress DADT represents be reversed. It seems you are more receptive to the other side to that coin and I’d be interested to hear more about how you view the justification for repeal.

I agree that, even though I share absolutely none of his views, Herman Cain is personally likable and seems to be intelligent. I find his views on Moslems to be incomprehensible. I never have been able to understand that kind of minority-group-on-minority-group prejudice, though I sort of get the idea his is based strictly on national security concerns. I do, however, agree with you that his business experience would lead one to conclude he might know how to create jobs, but the same could be said about Romney. What is it about Romney that you don’t care for….is he not conservative enough for you? I’m asking because from the perspective of a progressive, all the GOP candidates appear to be conservative and I am not able to make the same kind of distinctions that you evidently are making.

I am one of those “professional progressives” Obama’s team threw under the bus a while back and I find his inability to find his spine (a flaw shared by so many of his fellow democrats) exceedingly annoying. Like you though, I suspect I will end up voting for him again anyway because I cannot see anyone in the GOP field that I think would not be just as destructive as I think Bush was, with the possible exceptions of Mitt Romney and John Huntsman. By the way, why do you want to see Huntsman disappear? He seems to be intelligent and strikes me as someone who just might know how to effectively reach across the aisle and encourage compromise, something I think is crucial to diffusing the clueless DC lawyers’ gridlock. If he were the nominee, I would actually consider sitting out in 2012 since I’m having such a hard time watching Obama morph into a soft core, old school moderate blue dog republican.

The thing I liked most about your post was something else I think we have in common. I have no interest in bandwagons myself and may just end up turning in a ballot write-in. Still on the fence, right alongside you.

Interesting reply - ME

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It is interesting to know why a democrat progressive, whatever you call yourself, would not vote for one of the GOP members other than they are not Obama. I'm happy that you would consider Mitt Romney however. I just personally like Herman Cain cause he isn't tainted. Anyway, when Bush seemed to turn his back on us the last year of his presidency I would have never voted for him again. And the damage Obama has done to this country still hasn't sent a red flag out, is something I don't even understand. I would vote for an Alien (legal of course) from Alpha Sentori if he would repeal all the damage Obama has and will incur on us and our grandchildren and their grandchildren. If I went to sleep and woke up 20 years later I am afraid I am going to see our children being trained in Obama's Civilian Army, elderly not getting the hip surgery they need because the beurocrats, who will have total control by then of our healthcare, will readily have the kill pill they need to just go ahead an die. It sounds far fetched. Have you ever seen the movie Soylent Green? It's close to what our future will bring if we don't get rid of this dangerous Marxist out of the White House. Please believe me, if you go to The Blaze dot com and search the archives for Anita Dunn and Obama's hate speeches you will see what I mean. I wish I could say something to make people believe me.

For the sake of clarity - sm

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Being the left of liberal I am.... That no party affiliation was mentioned was not accident. It was deliberately omitted for the simple reason there that, as things stand now, there is no party on the scene in DC I feel is genuinely representing the interests of the middle class, working poor and impoverished. There are a few individuals whose long-term records reflect consistent and sincere efforts, such as Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders (yes, I realize he is a socialist) and gone-but-not-forgotten Anthony Weiner. Since I did not self identify as a democrat, I am puzzled as to why you did that for me. Progressive liberal is NOT synonymous with democrat. Independent voters do not exclusively reside between the GOP and democratic parties. They can also be found to their right and left.

Discussing votes cast against one candidate rather than in support of the other is just that. I said I would probably vote for Obama out of fear of other GOP primary candidates, with the possible exceptions of Romney and Huntsman. This is not the same thing as supporting Obama, Romney or Huntsman. It is a lesser-than-2-evils vote that requires no embellishments or faulty conclusions be drawn.

Clinton and Obama came about as close as any to being candidates I felt I could support, but both of them turned out to be much more moderate than I thought they were during the campaigns. Another clue I am more than a bit disenchanted with the democrats who take the progressive left’s votes for granted, then proceed to turn their backs on us and chide us for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of certain broken campaign promises (not confined to Obama by any means) and seismic policy shifts.

…. just how badly we need campaign finance reform and expansion beyond this extremely frustrating current 2-party system. Hello. I have been feeling a sense of inadequate party representation for a long time, a sentiment I believe is shared by many in this country, right, left and center.

I had the same problem with Obama in 2008 you have with Rick Santorum now. Yet another indication of lack of enthusiasm for Obama, then and now.

I am one of those “professional progressives” Obama’s team threw under the bus a while back and I find his inability to find his spine (a flaw shared by so many of his fellow democrats) exceedingly annoying. Another not-so-subtle expression of utter frustration with lack of effective representation.

Like you though, I suspect I will end up voting for him again anyway because I cannot see anyone in the GOP field that I think would not be just as destructive as I think Bush was. Voting against rather than for a candidate AGAIN is not ringing endorsement of the default candidate who receives a fear-of-his-opponent vote.

If he [Huntsman} were the nominee, I would actually consider SITTING OUT in 2012 since I’m having such a hard time watching Obama morph into a soft core, old school moderate blue dog republican. I find Huntsman the least threatening of all GOP contenders. This does not mean I would vote FOR him, or Romney, for that matter. It means I would consider NOT voting for Obama should Huntsman get the nomination. This statement unequivocally confers deep dissatisfaction, not only with Obama, but with democrats as a whole.

I have no interest in bandwagons myself and may just end up turning in a ballot write-in. Still on the fence, right alongside you. Again, not a ringing endorsement of Obama.

I remain completely baffled by your first sentence where you assume I will vote for Obama and only for Obama. As for the rest of your post, I respect your choice and preferences, but from where I sit, Cain is irrevocably tainted by his blatant prejudice against ALL Moslems, making him completely unsuitable for the Office of the Presidency. If that’s OK by you, so be it, but I happen to married to a Moslem who loves this country and he, along with my son, do not deserve such prejudicial attitudes in their leadership. The remainder of your post is not grounded in reality and I am feeling weary of arguing with such delusional ideas.

Thank you for being so civil - Conservative MT

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I guess we are proof that you can hold a civilized discussion without name calling and acting like a bunch of big bullies.

My biggest problem with Romney is the flip flopping he has done in the past. To me he is the perfect example of a politician who will say whatever is popular at the time to get elected. So I have major trust issues with him. I know all politicians say what they think we want to hear to get elected...but I'm tired of this and I guess you could say I'm putting my foot down and not buying into the BS.

As for me wanting to get rid of Huntsman, there are things I like about him and things I don't. I guess that can be said for all candidates though. I have no problem with his approval of civil unions. I do, however, have a problem with his belief of global warming which I believe is just a scam created by Al Gore....who is so worried about global warming that he has to fly his private jet every where to talk about it. lol I personally feel that our "climate change" is the natural cycle of our planet and although I'm all for recycling and looking into alternative fuel sources, etc....I'm no tree hugger and I certainly don't believe in man made global warming. As to immigration...I don't think he is strong enough on that particular issue.

As to my dislike of us being in the middle east...I believe we have created more of a mess than helped out anything. We went after Sadam who had nothing to do with 9/11. After we got rid of him, we left Iraq open for terrorists to take over that country as Sadam (the crazy man that he was) did keep terrorists out or he would kill them. Granted, we got Bin Laden and that one threat is now gone...but there are many other Islamic extremists who hate us and would be happy to see us wiped off the face of the planet. What we should have done after 9/11 is just bombed the heck out of them without putting any troops on the ground. If they attacked us again, we go back and bomb the heck out of them again. No reason to send troops there and risk their lives to rebuild countries that hate us with money we don't have anyway. I also feel our meddling into the Middle East has actually put our ally, Israel, in a bad situation.

As to DADT, I really don't have a problem with gays in the military. If they feel the call to serve our country, more power to them. I think my biggest concern is this....if they are open about their sexuality and they get seriously injured or (God forbid) killed during their service, would that open up frivilous lawsuits by the families stating that their loved one was put in a situation in the battle that was riskier because they were gay. Kind of like in the past where black soldiers were put in more dangerous positions during war because they were black. Maybe that is reaching a bit, but it could happen. I'm not a homophobe. I have no problem with civil unions. I am not saying someone's sexual orientation could affect someone's ability to do their job in the military. So like I said before...I see pros and cons to DADT.

As for democrats I could potentially vote for....I kinda like Kucinich as well. I also like Manchin.

Other than that I'm essentially conservative on most issues. I'm definitely for government staying out of our lives and not getting so big that they control everything. To me government is the problem, not the solution. More often than not..when government sticks their nose into things...it makes it worse and not better, IMO.

As to our economy, I'm not going to blame one party or one president because I think there is enough blame to go around for both parties and many presidents. I personally feel we need to take taxes back to the way they were during Clinton's administration and get rid of the Bush tax cuts for EVERYONE. Yet at the same time I hate to give more money to an administration that loves to spend and I don't foresee much getting done with more revenue besides more out of control spending and more carelessness as to where our tax payer dollars go. I also believe we are being overly regulated and that is hurting business growth.

So you see...I'm not the "normal" conservative. I can see both sides of the coin on certain issues and I do try and give credit where credit is due.

As to Herman Cain and his Muslim issue. I can see both sides to that as well. I know there are a lot of Islamic extremists who consider us infidels and believe they should kill us. I have to admit...that makes me nervous. Just today I read an article where a Christian priest in Iran is going to be tortured and executed because he refuses to recant his Christian faith. I've read about honor killings and heard about the oppression of their women. So I guess you could say I have issues with some Muslims because of that. I know I shouldn't judge a group by their extremists in the groups...but it seems to me that there are A LOT of extremists in the Middle East who share the opinion that Americans, Jews, and Christians should be killed along with anyone who doesn't share their faith.

As to immigration, my opinion is that we should look at how we do immigration in our country and perhaps change it so it is more rewarding or somewhat easier to become legal. I have no problems with immigration as long as it is legal. I do, however, have a problem with illegals coming here and getting tuition paid for their kids by tax payers and rewarding them and encouraging more of them to come here illegally instead of going through the proper procedure. I disagree 100% with giving amnesty to illegals here now though. That does nothing but encourage more to come here illegally. We should encourage legal immigration instead.

I will get off of my soap box for now. ;) Have a nice day!

I agree - ME

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree with alot of stuff. And deeper. I believe our government is corrupt for some reason. It's been corrupt and getting more corrupt. I feel Obama is a job creation demantler talking out of one side of his mouth to people who actually believe him and pleasing the extremist leftists socialist anticapitalists by stimulating us into oblivian, threating to raise taxes, impose more regulations and mandates and taking away any incentive for job creators to hire or keep their employees. hence the horrible state of the economy. So if I was a Socialist and hated capitalism (which they do) look it up. I would do exactly what the president is doing.

Not to change the subject - Conservative MT

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but people like Michael Moore confuse me. The man does nothing but bash capitalism but how else did this man get rich....uh....capitalism. I just don't get it.

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Oct 30, 2012
See pages 94-96 of Obama's sequestration budget plan. Yes, Romney believes that FEMA has been over-funded for the results that we've actually gotten from the agency (which are perfectly miserable) - but the difference is, Romney plans to redistribute the money to the states and it isn't therefore a cut to emergency funding. Under Obama's plan, the money would be used to fund OBAMACARE. Got knowledge? ...

Jun 29, 2010
How irresponsible is this! http://money.cnn.com/video/fortune/2...n_bin&hpt=Sbin There are fissures on the ocean/gulf floor. What would an explosion of that magnitude do? He says the idea is being considered. I'm scratching my head on this one. He proposes a plan to send the Navy to do this then dump and pile all kinds of stuff. ...

Feb 06, 2013
LANSING, Mich.—Republican Gov. Rick Snyder on Wednesday called for extending Medicaid eligibility to hundreds of thousands of Michigan residents without health insurance, welcoming the option available under the Obama administration's health care overhaul. Snyder made the announcement at a Lansing hospital the day before he proposes his next state budget. "It's a win for all," he said while flanked by doctors, nurses and health officials. The chance to cover nearly half of the ...

Jun 17, 2015
do they want? They do not want abortion. They do not want to fund food stamps or welfare. They do not want same sex couples adopting. They do not want healthcare for the poor, so many of these children could be born with health deficits from no to poor prenatal care and lack of nutrition. NOW, they do not want family planning. Do they want full orphanages (do we even have orphanages in the U.S. or are we going to have to open them?) or are they planning on a whole lot of adopti ...

Oct 26, 2009
This is a great way to see the various options - I prefer the trigger option myself. Give the industry some time to prove they can be competitive, but then trigger the safety net when/if they don't (provided for all). http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/26/health.care/index.html ...

Dec 06, 2015
*** ...

Sep 29, 2016
The US government, much to the chagrin of Senator Ted Cruz, is set to officially relinquish the Department of Commerce's oversight of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) as of tomorrow night at midnight. ICANN is a California nonprofit that has supervised website domains since 1998, essentially under subcontract from the Commerce Department. Under the Obama transition plan oversight by the U.S. Commerce Department would end and be replaced by a multi-stakeholder ...

Mar 29, 2017
has hit upon a novel idea to reduce poverty: Fine people for being poor. Belarus, which lies between Russia and Poland and was formerly part of the Soviet Union, plans to introduce a “social parasites” tax on the unemployed. Unlike in many Western nations, where the government helps the unemployed, in Belarus, the long-term unemployed will have to pay the government. The country’s president, Alexander Lukashenko, has said the $233 levy — around a month’s wages in Belarus — w ...

Apr 08, 2011
perhaps we should look at the state budget and if the state exceeds that budget...the governor should pay the difference out of his own pocket. I bet that would make them run their states a heck of a lot better. ...

Aug 17, 2012
http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/unemployment-up-in-44-states-1.3911646 ...

Oct 29, 2013
The GOP's campaign for strict voter ID laws is affecting another voting bloc. —By Dana Liebelson | Tue Oct. 29, 2013 3:00 AM PDT 3 Kheel Center/Flickr Women have been allowed to vote in the United States since 1920, after the passage of the 19th Amendment. But fast-forward to 2013, and plenty of states' laws have a provision that makes it harder for women who are married or divorced to cast a ballot. When Americans all over the country ...

Mar 31, 2011
An interactive map with stats. http://www.gallup.com/poll/125066/State-States.aspx Republican/Lean 40.4%Democrat/Lean 43.7%Conservative 39.8%Moderate 36.2%Liberal 20.3%Obama approval 46.8%Obama disapproval 45.7% ...

Feb 04, 2010
Please pray for all of the medical transciptionists, technicians, supervisors, etc. who are suffering by the work being moved to various countries. Pray that God sends us all something better. Pray for a better U.S. economy and for better economies in countries of the entire world. ...

Mar 18, 2010
Imagine that....some states actually care about the people who live there. What a concept. At least 37 states are looking into this. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/17/politics/main6308772.shtml http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/cuccinellis_office_confirms_vi.html ...

Apr 29, 2010
Why shouldn't ALL tests be given in English only? After all, you're not in your native country anymore kiddo....you're in the good old U.S. of A!! If you can't speak English well enough (or at all) to even take a simply DL test, then you don't need to be here at all.... and probably not legal to boot http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/alabama-candidate-vows-conduct-drivers-test-english/ ...

Aug 15, 2016
businesses. "TPP Not Only Trade, 83% Is Fascists Controlling Our Daily Lives - Once We're In, We're Stuck Forever" Julian Assange https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7wzmgiE_nE ...

Apr 20, 2013
Do you ever wonder why it seems we’re always having the same fights over public policy? Why is it that after we get off our butts, stand in line for hours at the polls, cast our ballots, and are told we “won,” nothing seems to get resolved? Aren’t elections supposed to have consequences? What happened to “We the People”?Americans grow up believing they live in a democracy, indeed the world’s greatest democracy. Too bad that’s a lie.Consider gun con ...

May 01, 2013
A bipartisan proposal to expand background checks for gun sales failed in part due to Republicans' desire to prevent President Barack Obama from winning a victory on a major policy initiative, the gun proposal's chief GOP proponent said Wednesday. Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., who crafted a proposal with Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., to extend background checks to firearms purchased at gun shows and online, said the measure failed to win the 60 votes it needed to win passage due to Republican ...

Oct 08, 2013
I like the article (link below) and think it has merit. Let the residents who so dislike the Affordable Care Act continue with the current system of full insurance company control and denial and exclusions and ridiulously unaffordable premiums and strain on emergency rooms, etc. They can have it! Talk about death panels! Try getting coverage for pre-existing illnesses, especially if you've been laid off or have switched companies! My state would really like the single-payer option ...

Oct 08, 2014
http://mediamatters.org/video/2014/10/08/hannity-im-not-covering-the-cdc-press-conferenc/201077 Recording in link. His guest implies there may be reason to distrust the government because man in Dallas died. Nevermind that he didn't receive proper healthcare when he reported to the hospital, hydration, blood transfusion, and received drugs just too late. Hannity is promoting fear-mongering and further destabilization and distrust of government. How much more dest ...

Feb 13, 2015
No words are needed. This says it all. ...

Mar 27, 2015
Gosh, if only we made enough as MTs to actually take a vacation. I think I'd pick New Mexico or Arizona. Nebraska even looks interesting! ...

Dec 18, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvpmmFeMQrI People are leaving the Hillary-supporting states in droves. When I say the blue states are in a depression, I don’t mean the collective funk they are in because they lost the election to Donald Trump. I’m talking about an economic depression in the blue states that went for Hillary. Here is an amazing statistic. Of the 10 blue states that Hillary Clinton won by the largest percentage margins — California, Massachusetts, Vermont, Hawaii, ...

Apr 01, 2012
Starting at #10 down to #1. Wow! Vermont is #1! ...

Jul 12, 2012
will show how ACA works. See link. ...

Aug 23, 2012
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Oct 03, 2012
From the L.A. Times: "Almost all the swing states are better off than they were two years ago," said Xu Cheng, a senior economist at Moody's Analytics who publishes monthly election forecasts based on the economic performance of the states. "That's the reason why President Obama has the edge over Romney." http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-swing-state-economies-20121003,0,7107848.story ...

Nov 14, 2012
Just kidding! http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-47-states-sign-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states ...

Nov 18, 2012
Georgia, Ohio and Wisconsin joined more than a dozen other states on Friday in saying they would not establish health insuranceexchanges, while a handful of other states said they would take advantage of an extra month allowed by the Obama administration to make decisions. The exchanges — online markets where consumers can shop for private insurance subsidized by the federal government — are a centerpiece of President Obama’s health care law. &n ...

Jul 17, 2013
I guess we still have 49 left. ...