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Just read an article where a 25 y/o
Posted: Sep 16, 2011
hid her pregnancy and gave birth to twin boys in her parent's house and smothered them so her parents wouldn't hear them cry. She hid the babies' bodies in the laundry basket where her dad later found them. So...just curious if this is acceptable to some of you who declare women have a choice. Perhaps it would have been better had she went to a doctor and had the doctor deliver them breech and suck their brains out and crush their skull before he delivered their heads. I'm sorry...but I don't see a huge difference in a doctor doing that and this mother smothering them after birth. Both are entirely and utterly disgusting.
;
That is horrible!!! - Conservative MT
[ In Reply To ..]That is why I think late term abortions should be illegal!!!
Almost every day I look at the news online and there is at least 1 article about someone killing their child. What is wrong with these people?
Fact and myth about late term - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Late-term abortions are very rare. About one percent of all abortions performed in the United States occur after 21 weeks. There are different definitions of what constitutes a "late term abortion," but most definitions refer to abortions at or after 24 weeks or in the third trimester.
Late-term abortions are severely restricted by law.
In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the constitutional right to privacy extends to the decision of a woman, in consultation with her physician, to terminate a pregnancy.
The Court also determined, however, that this right is not absolute and it must be balanced against the state's legitimate interest in protecting both the health of the pregnant woman and the developing human life. Therefore, according to Roe, the state's interest in protecting potential life becomes compelling at the point of fetal viability (when the fetus has the capacity for sustained survival outside the uterus). States are allowed to, and indeed have, severely restricted access to abortion in the third-trimester, except, as the Supreme Court has ruled, when necessary to preserve the woman's life or health. In subsequent cases, the Court made clear that viability is a medical determination, which varies with each pregnancy, and that it is the responsibility of the attending physician to make that determination.
As the Guttmacher Institute points out in a brief on this issue, the Supreme Court has held that:
•even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions “necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother;”
•“health” in this context includes both physical and mental health;
•only the physician, in the course of evaluating the specific circumstances of an individual case, can define what constitutes “health” and when a fetus is viable; and
•states cannot require additional physicians to confirm the physician’s judgment that the woman’s life or health is at risk.
So what if they are rare! - Conservative MT
[ In Reply To ..]They still happen and are wrong. If the fetus is not viable and is already dead...by all means do what you must to protect the mother. But other than that....I'm against late term abortions regardless how rare they are.
Late term, early term... - hmmm
[ In Reply To ..]If the women "choosing" the abortion option had to hear in graphic detail what happens during the procedure, as I did while working the other day, I think they'd think twice.
Postpartum depression? - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
My last nerve has just - JS
[ In Reply To ..]given out.
Look... you want some insight into the types of women who think it's acceptable to go through the procedure you just described, do some time in an MFM office.
Contrary to what you might think, these are women and their partners who are so desperate to have children and are faced with having to make a terrible decision that they feel is in the best interest of their future child or children. These are the types of women who, if the doctor told them to go home and stand on their heads for 9 months so the baby wouldn't come out, they would do so in a heartbeat. Some have gone through the emotionally and financially stressful method of IVF just so they could have a baby. They get 2nd, 3rd, etc., opinions, ultrasounds, get amnios to make sure that no mistake is being made and cling to every hope that their baby is going to be healthy. Unfortunately it does not always work out that way, and the decision that they have to make is devastating and, quite frankly, none of your business.
For you to say that women/couples in these circumstances are on the same level with this (unless she is deemed to be completely and totally mentally unfit) monster, as well as other posters trying to compare with Casey Anthony, Susan Smith, or whatever other murderer out there... it's not only overly dramatic, it's cruel.
Tenn woman - s/m
[ In Reply To ..]Aborting a pregnancy at 6-8 weeks does not compare to killing an already-delivered, viable child(ren). Not quite sure where a doctor delivering breech babies and sucking their brains out and crushing their skulls has to do with anything. Are you saying that if a doctor did this to a full-term baby it would be the same as an abortion at 6 weeks? I disagree. What this gal did was illegal and horrific and absolutely is not acceptable. She could have gotten an abortion... which is legal. Just because someone believes in a woman's right to choose, does not mean they think murdering a born child is okay. That's ridiculous and I don't think they can be compared. JMO.
If enough people... - Mary
[ In Reply To ..]believe in a woman's right to choose to kill her unborn baby, then an unstable female could very easily think killing one after it's born is no different. When abortion was illegal, there weren't that many women killing their babies. Abortion has opened up a nasty can of worms and the baby loses every time. We know abortions are legal. The question is why should one stage of development in human life be regarded as more human than another stage? That's ridiculous and JMO.
I haven't gone back to research this, but... - mthead
[ In Reply To ..]I seem to remember reading that the incidence of what we now call 'SIDS' was higher before Roe V. Wade than it is now. And no, I'm not suggesting anyone in this day and age who has lost a child to SIDS is a baby killer. I have had 2 miscarriages and 1 ectopic pregnancy - which I had to have "killed" as you would call it, in order to save my life - and I would rather go through those three horrible events again than lose a child to SIDS, or have any woman lose a child to SIDS.
My thoughts exactly - s/m
[ In Reply To ..]That was exactly what I thought and investigations years ago were a lot different than they are now, for everything, not just child death. Everything in life has changed from so long ago. You could say just about anything is worse now than it was years ago, drug use, murders, alcoholism, spousal abuse, etc.
What about pregnancies due to rape from a stranger or incest? What do the people who don't believe in choice think of abortion for that situation if neither the mother's or baby's health is in danger? Just curious.
Many doctors believe that SIDS deaths have - not declined so much as
[ In Reply To ..]technology and medical advancements have better allowed us to pinpoint the causes of more infant deaths. Nice try to use that as an argument for abortion, though.
Tenn woman - SM
[ In Reply To ..]Most hospitals, fire stations, police stations, city hall, any official office in most states lets you drop off babies with no questions answered. This needs to be advertized on all TV stations during all these reality shows to get the word out so this kind of stuff does not happen.
Why she was so "desperate" to hide the pregnancy - remains a "mystery" sm
[ In Reply To ..]according to the article I read about this. I suspect the answer to that lies somewhere between the nature of Tennessee abortion laws, economic status (unemployed living with parents?), religious indoctrination by both parents and church, the degree of social pressure being exerted by right-to-lifers in a small town of less than 6,000, the mother's overall mental health status, and perhaps even barriers to accessing mental health treatment.
The only knowable part of that equation is the nature of TN abortions laws, which on first inspection reveals 2.5 lines of what constitutes a "legal" abortion, surrounded by 5 detailed paragraphs discussing what constitutes an "illegal" abortion, penalties for varying degrees of criminal offenses, residency requirements for the mother, licensing requirements for the physician, and consent obstacles, errrr, I mean requirements, including of course the mandatory 48-hour waiting period. "Choice" is only afforded for first trimester. All other circumstances carry stipulations of one kind or another, and "medical necessity" kicks in the minute the first trimester is reached. To its credit, the law does NOT pretend 3rd trimester + 1 day constitutes viablility, which it defines at 6 months, nor does it contend that "personhood" starts at conception.
Of note, median income for females (who actully have jobs) in Henderson TN is right at poverty level for families, $22,258, and she was evidently facing the prospect of becoming a single-parent FAMILY following the birth of twins. Unemployment rate for Chester County is 11%. What are the odds a pregnant 25-yo was holding down a fulltime job there?
I'm gonna take a wild guess here and opine that all of the above influenced the course that pregnancy took. I'm gonna also throw down that perhaps another "better" alternative would have involved affordable access to termination services early on without having to deal with familial and social hellfire and damnation. One thing is clear to me. The woman was obviously driven by FEAR, and a perceived lack of family and social support systems.
Excellent analysis - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
So let me get this straight. It is everyone - else's fault that this woman killed
[ In Reply To ..]her children? I think you left George Bush out of the list of those who caused this. Heaven forbid you blame the woman who did it.
There are two words libs do not like - sm
[ In Reply To ..]PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
Excellent post, especially the last paragraph. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]"I'm gonna take a wild guess here and opine that all of the above influenced the course that pregnancy took. I'm gonna also throw down that perhaps another "better" alternative would have involved affordable access to termination services early on without having to deal with familial and social hellfire and damnation. One thing is clear to me. The woman was obviously driven by FEAR, and a perceived lack of family and social support systems."
Your post was very well written, and I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks.
She probably has the mental capacities of a bot fly. - Didnt know any better; not uncommon in Tenn.
[ In Reply To ..]=/
I am speechless. nm - oldtimer
[ In Reply To ..].
Umm I live close to this area, and it is definitely - not considered to be
[ In Reply To ..]an area filled with poverty, not to say it is not there, but sure not known for it. It is a suburb of Nashville and an extremely nice area to live in. The woman is 25 years old and a college graduate working in a dental office. The house I saw on the news looked to be probably 3000 sq ft and obviously in a very nice subdivision. She was by no means poor. She has a fiance who did not know she was pregnant, and they have been dating for years. They are doing paternity tests to try to determine who the father was. I wonder if this could have been a concern.
Oh, by the way, it is Hendersonville, TN in Sumner County. She works in Nasville, which is known to be a better paying area.
Also consider this.... - Suspicious
[ In Reply To ..]This woman was also engaged to be married. Could it possibly be that she got pregnant from someone other than the fiancee and wanted to hid the pregnancy/birth for that reason? They are doing DNA tests on the babies and that should shed some light on that subject.
She obviously had NO choice in the matter. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]If she is still living at home, which it seems she is, then her parents obviously aren't pro-choice or pro contraception, never talked to her or maybe only SHOUTED at her and scared her, or she would have felt at ease in telling them about her situation.
Perhaps she is mentally handicapped and even more afraid to talk to them about it.
How do you know this story is true? Do you have a link?
Not the OP, but here you go. - No message.
[ In Reply To ..]http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/16/justice/tennessee-twins-killed/
She was 25.... - Mary
[ In Reply To ..]and was sane enough to work for a dentist. I doubt she would have been intimidated by her parents. She just didn't want to be a mother. She just wanted to have sex, not really caring whether she got pregnant or not since killing your offspring is the thing we do here in the US when you don't want your babies.
How dare you assume to know her motives. nm - Very sad for the babies.
[ In Reply To ..],
Gee, Mary, did you have a conversation with - her? Unbelievable SM
[ In Reply To ..]You seem to have so much insight into her thought processes.
And maybe... - Mary
[ In Reply To ..]they just wouldn't have supported any decision to kill their grandchildren. You're grabbing at straws. The woman committed a crime and, of course, she'll be deemed insane but then aren't all women who choose to kill their unborn instead of choosing to forego sex a little insane? I think so. ; )
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