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Judge rules out health care law

Posted: Dec 13, 2010

This is good news. Now if politicians could just make health care affordable for all. I'd love the same rates as someone in Idaho or other states have. Make health insurance competitive, they have to accept pre-existing conditions and nobody could ever be refused health care and I think that would be a great way for a new year. But forcing people to buy a product they don't want is just not right and I'm glad this judge saw how unconstitutional it is.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703727804576017552229615230.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEADNewsCollection

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Agreed! This will go to Supreme Court tho because... - Obama admin will

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challenge this ruling. Hopefully the Supreme Court will uphold it. Several other states have filed similar challenges to the mandatory clause.

Yes! If insurance is made affordable for - all, and

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it is made illegal to treat those who choose not to carry the insurance and cannot self-pay at the time of service, then there will be fairness for all.

Affordable for all. How do you determine - that amount? You said SM

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it is made ILLEGAL to treat those who cannot self-pay at time of service? What about poor WORKING families who struggle just to pay the basics? You know, the ones who make just a little bit too much money to quality for assistance. ILLEGAL to treat them? Wow.

I understand similar to other programs - Tax credits

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I suspect the previous poster was trying to make a point, which apparently was taken.

No, I don't agree - that is not fairness. - see message

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What you are saying is treat the people who don't have insurance like criminals, which goes against what the judge ruled today. You are saying yes, but then your message goes against that. You are basically saying that hospitals/ER's etc should refuse medical treatment to those in need or else have them arrested like a common criminal. Not having health insurance is not a crime and should not be considered as one. I had to have an emergency surgery a few years back. I worked out a payment system with the hospital. There are ways to work out a payment system if someone needs medical care and cannot afford to pay all at once. Sometimes people need to show a little humanity and compassion and not treat someone like a criminal if they can't afford health insurance and are struck with an emergent situation (or any medical situation).

If they would create health insurance plans that are affordable I believe more people would voluntary purchase them, but people should not be treated like a criminal if they have any medical situation (emergency or not) where they can't afford to pay the bill all at once. Even people who have medical insurance cannot afford to pay a bill all at once and payments are always worked out.

It is absolutely fair. - Just

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natural consequences of the choices we make. With affordable insurance, there will be no reason for folks not to be covered.

No its not - see message

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There is nothing fair about forcing a person to buy something they do not want. The constitution specifically states that the federal government does not have the right to demand we buy a specific product. It is not fair to force other people to buy something they do not want. Especially since it won't affect any of us. Whether someone chooses to buy insurance is nobody's business but their own. I say it's a wise decision to have health insurance, but that is my own personal belief and not my place to demand other people live under my beliefs. If they don't want to buy a product they should not have to buy it. What's next, the government is going to demand everyone buy a car (a specific car that the government tells you to buy of course), or veggies. After all veggies are good for you so the government should force you to buy brocolli and other veggies every month. What about any other item that the government decides they want us to buy. They don't have that right. And just because I own a product it is not fair to force other people to own the same thing.

Affordable insurance - that is 2 key words. We need affordable insurance then everyone could have better coverage at an affordable rate. I'd love that, but again not fair to tell people to buy something they don't want. Especially since it won't change what I've got.

Where in my post does it say someone should be forced - to buy a product?

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I said no such thing.

I said, if insurance is affordable for all, then those who chose not too have it should not be treated unless they can pay at the time of service.

It's a simple concept. It should be illegal for people who choose not to purchase affordable insurance to damage the rest of us to the extent that insurance would have covered their medical bills and they cannot.

The rest of us end up paying for those bills, and also paying for any delay in paying those bills, in the form of higher prices, etc. You know how it works, don't you?

Why should we have to involuntarily pay your medical bills?

That still is not fair - see message

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What Pelosi and her crowd are trying to do is force everyone to buy a product that some do not want to have.

By you saying "those who chose not too have it should not be treated unless they can pay at the time of service.". That is the same thing.

There are a lot of people who DO have health insurance and sometimes a bill costs more than they can afford at that time (like my surgery, that after the insurance company paid their share I still owed over $9,000. I didn't have 9K laying around and they worked out a payment schedule and that's the way it should be for everyone. If you need to seek medical attention for some emergency and you do not have a huge sum of cash in your back pocket places need to make payment arrangements. Refusing people medical treatment because they don't have huge wads of money laying around is not right. Where is the compassion. I see none.

Also, people who don't have health insurance and need medical attention does no damage to you or anyone else. You and nobody else has been "damaged" by other people and their medical situation.

You and I do not pay for other peoples medical bills. And certainly even if every single citizen in this country got health insurance your rates would not go down.

Evidently you don't know how it works.

You and I are not paying for other people's medical bills.

You are very wrong. - The public

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does most definitely pay for those who cannot pay their medical bills.

Also, since when does giving someone a choice constitute forcing them to do anything?

If healthcare is affordable for all, there will be no reason for someone not to carry it other than making a choice not to.

A natural consequence to this would be, no insurance, or payment at time of service...no treatment.

The poster did not say that being uninsured should be - illegal.

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You should read again.

Supreme Court doesn't like Obama very much. They'll - uphold it.nm

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nm

That would be great but.... - Backwards Typist

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so far, it's 2 in favor of the mandated coverage and only 1 against.

Do you think the administration will use scare tactics by stating without the mandated health care, the pre-existing conditions would not be able to be met?

I can only hope they do start over with some of these items next year. Should the whole act be thrown out? Yes if everything is tied to the mandatory section. If it isn't, let them take apart the unpopular items and make them popular.

All I want for Christmas is Congress working for the good of the people.
;-)

No, the insurance companies will use the scare tactics. - not "the administration"-nm

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The administration has the control here....the law - was passed.

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Nothing much insurance companies can do about what was passed at this point. I think the law can stand without the mandatory clause so far as the law goes, but financially it will be a nightmare because forcing people to buy it or fine them if they don't was supposed to help pay for this mess. If that goes, then the trillions it was GOING to cost would go up significantly when all parts of it kick in. If the supreme court were to rule the government cannot compel us to buy insurance, then I think they would have to repeat it and start over because we really COULDN'T afford it then. You almost have to laugh...the premise of this whole thing was to cover the 3 million plus uninsured, but when Obama Admin realized most of those were uninsured by choice, they put in the mandatory clause. Otherwise we would have a multitrillion dollar health care law and nothing would change...most of those 3 million plus still would not take insurance and because of pre-existing conditions part of the law, would wait until they got sick and then buy insurance so we would still be paying for them.

What a MESS. That's what happens when you pass something just to be passing something. They didn't count on a bunch of states filing those suits. All it takes is for one federal judge to rule it unconstitutional...that will boot it up to appeals, and if appeals overturns the judge then virginia will appeal THAT...it will end up in the supreme court. That is where the final decision will be made, in my opinion.

the final decision - sm

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should rest with the people. How about put this to nationwide referendum and see if the people want this reform or not. I think we all know what would win. The majority are still against the bill as passed.

Sounds like a plan! - nm

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nm

Auto liability insurance is mandatory in all states, isn't it? - nm

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The key word there is STATES. If is not FEDERAL law. - nm

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nm

As said before, auto insurance is mandatory for - Backwards Typist

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those that chose to buy a car or truck. If a person doesn't buy a car, they don't have to buy auto insurance.

Health care is totally different. Everyone, whether they want it or not, will have to buy health insurance or be fined.

Big difference.

Also it is state law, not federal law. Also - a big difference.

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nm

Apples to oranges - see message

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Car insurance is not federal. Not everyone owns a car and even those with a car don't always have insurance. So if we go by what you say then every person in the country whether they drive or not and even if they are 2 years old needs to purchase auto insurance.

They are not the same thing and should not be compared to each other.

And people have the option to buy car insurance.

Not to mention that it is there to cover - someone else

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who was not at fault in the incident. It is not making you cover your own vehicle or take out med pay. It is so you don't cause financial harm to someone else for your mistake.

That's an excellent point. - see message

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I never even thought about that, but you are absolutely correct.

I don't know if I said this in my last message (forget what I wrote), but not every person is required to buy car insurance. I think her argument would be better if they forced everyone (drivers, non-drivers, and children) to purchase auto insurance.

Also would like to point out that the auto companies - can refuse to cover you

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I worked insurance for many years and was licensed in all 4 lines of insurance. Just because you are required by law to carry car insurance, it does not mean that the insurance company has to accept you as an insured, meaning like the pre-exising clauses that are going to be forced upon health insurance companies.

So, not only are they going to force everyone to buy insurance or pay the penalty, they are going to force an independent business to cover "risky" individuals. We can keep our car insurance low because the "standard" companies will not accept the ones with high points on their driving records. They have to go nonstandard and pay an unbelievable amount just for liability. Unlike what the government is doing now in which we will all be having to pay for the ones who have previously been uninsurable as obviously we already know their costs are going to be high.

I think people who are buying into this plan have no understanding of insurance itself and risk management or are the ones benefiting. Otherwise, this plan would absolutely make no sense to them.

Well, basically what happens now is the "risky" - individuals who cannot sm

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get insurance because of preexisting conditions are covered by us, right? They have an emergency and they go to the ER. The costs are passed down to us. I would much rather those people have the ability to get coverage. What exactly do you want them to do? If it was someone in your family and they had preexisting conditions, wouldn't you want them to be able to afford and get insurance? I just do not understand the attitudes of some people (not directed at you personally)who say basically "I should not be responsible for YOU, if you can't make it, if you can't afford it, well then too bad for you". It seems like people with this attitude put all those in need of help in one category, which is wrong. I admit I get angry about freeloader types, but there are many people (more by the day it seems) who do everything they can to take care of themselves and their families. Through circumstances out of their control, they can't do it. I feel strongly we should help people like this in our country. We could, too, if we would spend less helping those less fortunate in other countries. We are quick to do that, but the congress doesn't give a hoot about helping the poor here. Pitiful.

It doesn't mean that people don't want to help - for these people. I just

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don't happen to believe that the government should have the right to force an individual insurance company to insure someone. It kind of takes away what insurance is and turns it into a welfare of sorts. They do not force it on other types of insurance; though, I believe this may be a door opener. It does not require a life insurance company to insure a profession skydiver or a homeowner company to insure someone who has a history arson, but it is going to make health insurance companies insure everyone. These are still to me insurances that are very much needed and will cause major financial harm if you do not have them. They can force them from the get go to give someone insurance that they know is going to cost them possibly millions. Insurance is not a not-for-profit group. Look up the definition of what it is.

Maybe you can afford your premiums to go way up, but I really can't but am going to have no choice.

My insurance agent told me it is the VEHICLE itself - that is insured. (sm)

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I've purchased cars on credit and have always had to have comprehensive insurance.

I just bought a car for $7,000 cash, and it wasn't necessary for me to have comprehensive coverage; however, it's a very nice car and only five years old, with under 59,000 miles, and I chose to purchase full coverage.

When I was asking if it was okay for my daughter to drive my car occasionally, she said yes, that it was the vehicle that's insured, as long as my daughter doesn't drive it all the time. (To date, she hasn't driven it at all.)

Maybe your state law is different than my state law, but doesn't "no-fault" insurance mean just that?

I meant the actual vehicle - Yes, anyone

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driving the vehicle would be covered. It is not the driver, and if you don't have comp/collision there is no actual coverage to your vehicle (meaning physical coverage of vehicle or the person inside your own vehicle if say someone needs to go to the hospital or doctor if there is no med pay coverage). You are made to buy it so if you hit someone that the other person is not put under financial harm.

Please see message. (sm) - mm

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I actually wasn't made to buy it, since I paid cash for the vehicle. I was just afraid that if I got into an accident, regardless whose fault it might be, that fixing my car would be taken care of. It's probably the last car I'll ever buy, and I want it to be in good shape for when my daughter gets it (after I die). I was very lucky that my daughter knew a salesman at the dealership who gave me a fantastic deal: $2,000 under the blue book value!

Apples to oranges - How can this argument - be valid?

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1. We have the option of whether or not to have a car.
2. We have the option of whether or not to buy insurance for that car.
3. Not carrying insurance on a car that we drive is illegal.
4. Expenses incurred as the result of an accident which cannot be paid by the uninsured end up being paid by the rest of us in various ways.

1. We do not have the option of whether or not to have a body.
2. We have the option of whether or not to buy insurance for our bodies.
3. It is not illegal to be medically uninsured.
4. It is not illegal to treat someone who cannot pay for said treatment.
5. Expenses incurred as the result of an accident/illness which cannot be paid by the uninsured end up being paid by the rest of us.

Owning/driving a car is optional. Having a body is not optional.

Why is it that people are so against a mandate, a public option, and universal healthcare?

1. I want the option of not being covered by insurance for the body which I have.
2. I do not want to pay for other people's treatment, but I don't mind if they pay for mine.

This makes no sense. The only way this would make sense is if it were illegal to treat someone who cannot pay for said treatment.

I hope this brings back the public option.or single payer - nm

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Ugh. I don't!!! - nm

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nm

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