A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Does it matter which party wins?

Posted: Jul 2, 2011

Congratulations!! People's World Endorses Obama and Dems in 2012.

Does it matter which party wins?

It is obvious that there is a growing feeling of frustration and even anger among supporters of the Democratic Party with its performance over the past two years.

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, speaking for the labor movement, strongly expressed this unhappiness in some recent speeches.

I am disappointed too with some aspects of the Obama administration's domestic and foreign policy.

But I don't forget that this administration governs in a very hostile political environment in which the right is laboring overtime to wreck its initiatives at every step of the way.

In addition, there are the structural pressures of governing in a capitalist economy and state.

Then there are conservative pressures coming from some congressional Democrats and members of the administration.

Everything can't be explained away by the objective context, however. The president and his administration can be faulted for a number of policy decisions.

But the main question from a strategic point of view is this: Does it make any difference, from the standpoint of the class and democratic struggles, which party gains political ascendency?

Some - though not the labor movement nor other mass organizations of the American people - say no, it doesn't.

Some even go a step further and say a Democratic victory creates popular illusions, which in turn weaken the people's struggles. And the only way out of this vise is to form a third party now.

Communists don't agree with either one of these views. In our view, the differences between the two parties of capitalism are of consequence to class and democratic struggles.

Neither party is anti-capitalist, but they aren't identical either. Differences exist at the levels of policy and social composition. And despite the many frustrations of the past two years, the election of Barack Obama was historic and gave space to struggle for a people's agenda.

If, on the other hand, the Republicans had been victorious in 2008 the character of class and democratic struggles would have unfolded very differently. Our movement would have been on the defensive from Day One, the Democrats would be running for cover, and the Republicans would have an unfettered hand in their efforts to liquidate the welfare state, roll back the rights revolution of the 1930s and 1960s, and crush the people's movement - labor in the first place.

As for the wisdom of a third party, we have always advocated the formation of an independent people's party at the core of which are the working class and labor, racially and nationally oppressed people, women, youth, immigrants, seniors, gay and straight, etc. It is essential for any deep-going social change. But its realization depends on more than our desire, more than our political-ideological attitude. Millions who have to be at the core of this party still operate under the umbrella of the Democratic Party, albeit increasingly in an independent fashion.

Moreover, to separate ourselves at this moment from these forces would be contrary to our strategic policy of building maximum unity against right-wing extremism now and in next year's elections.

Now that doesn't mean that we give up our advocacy of an independent people's party, but we also understand that its formation is dictated by concrete political realities and strategic necessities. Nor does it mean that we hit the mute button when the Obama administration takes positions that we don't agree with. Just as we show no hesitation in supporting, and fighting for, the administration's progressive initiatives, we should have no compunction about taking issue with the administration when it takes positions that we don't agree on.

Which is what we have done.

When someone says we are not critical of the administration what they usually mean is that our criticism isn't as sweeping and categorical as they would like.

We make criticisms, but we do it in a certain context and with a certain strategic objective in mind. We are keenly aware of the fact that the agenda of the far right is to bring this administration and country to its knees, with a heavy dose of racism, lies and economic sabotage, setting the stage for a full blown return to power of the most reactionary, racist, anti-labor, anti-women, homophobic and militarist grouping in U.S. politics.

We want no part of that. We don't have any illusions about the Democratic Party, but we don't have any illusions about the Republican Party either.

Furthermore, we are also aware of the undeniable fact that no other party besides the Democratic Party stands a chance of beating the GOP next year.

http://peoplesworld.org/does-it-matter-which-party-wins/

;

Saying this is not the time for the - democratic party

[ In Reply To ..]
to split over ideology is hardly the same thing as an endorsement of the president. They are correct. Just look at the mess the Tea Party split has made of the GOP. They cannot even agree on a candidate. They are really endorsing preventing the GOP from seizing power at all costs.

endorsement - sm

[ In Reply To ..]

Really? I don't see how this statement can be anything other than an endorsement: Furthermore, we are also aware of the undeniable fact that no other party besides the Democratic Party stands a chance of beating the GOP next year.

I know EXACTLY what they are endorsing. I've also lived (very briefly) in a communist country. You are free to defend them. I will not.

Happy 4th of July.

I am not defending them. I am discussing the article. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
However, in a democracy the Communist party IS allowed to exist, speak, assemble, publish and participate in the process just like any others outside two mainstream parties. That's just the way it is, whether you like it or not.

The bolded statement has little to do with Obama. It simply states a basic given truth about the limitations of the 2-party system in America. Communists, socialists and some progessives do NOT endorse Obama directly because they perceive him to be way too moderate. In fact, many of them think Obama has turned his back on the left wing of the democratic party and feel betrayed. On the other hand they are still more than willing to mobilize behind him because for them, staying home and pouting over Obama's concessions to the GOP and handing power over to the them is not an option. They are savvy enough to realize that if they are to accomplish this, there really is no room for "spoiler" parties that dilute the vote, especially since blocking the GOP from the presidency and placing them back in the Congressional minority is their number one priority.

Again, this is not meant to be a defense, just an attempt to speak from their perspective. The article is encouraging people to vote AGAINST the GOP regardless of whether or not they endorse Obama administration policies, since the choice of potential winners is so restricted by the entrenched 2-party system. Pretty straightforward stuff.

defending - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I actually applaud the fact that the Communist Party USA is allowed to speak and spread their hate all over. That's one of reasons for posting the article. It's a wonderful thing to expose their ideology and how they have hijacked the Democrart party. There are so many people out there who don't realize how much influence this group has. They have a lot of unfinished business and the fact is, their best chance of getting that done is through Obama and the Democrat Party. I'm not a Republican, but I will never align myself with their beliefs.

I believe it's important to let the reader decide and educate themselves about the radical left (not the majority of the Democrat party) and, as well, they should educate themselves about the radical right, no doubt. However, if the Republicans were supported by a group, like a right-wing militia, with as much influence as this group, there would be (and rightfully so) a huge uproar from the Republicans. Don't kid yourself - the left rags would have a field day and it would be non-relenting. Why, when this is brought up, it is called "Marxist-Stalinist-Commie-Pinko conspiracy theories that aim to connect the president or his party with the dreaded anachronistic Red Scare.." Of course, this is not directed at you personally, but I'm truly curious about that connection.

CPUSA is so powerful - it can only muster 2500 members

[ In Reply To ..]
willing to self-identify in the entire country. The last time they fielded a candidate was in 1984 when Gus Hall ran for president with VP hopeful Angela Davis, who left the party in 1991. They received a whopping 36,000 votes.

For the last time, they encourage members to vote democratic as an electoral tactic to defeat the conservatives. End of story.

more than 2500 members - sm

[ In Reply To ..]

There are many more than 2500.

CPUSA National Chair Sam Webb noted in his opening remarks the new level of receptivity and respect the party has gained in the labor and other mass movements, the growth in readership of its websites and the growing numbers joining, especially online.

A number of shifts have been taking place in public opinion, creating a favorable climate for growth of left and progressive movements including the CPUSA and YCL [Young Communist League].

Support among Americans for the free market system (aka capitalism) has plummeted in the last year according to a GlobeScan survey.

Meanwhile class and socialist consciousness are growing, evident to anyone involved in the mass upsurge against the right wing. Pew polls show greater receptivity to socialism, especially among the youth (45 percent think socialism is a better system than capitalism) and communism (11 percent of the public thinks it’s a superior moral system to capitalism)

    Party activists are grappling with how to effectively respond to this new situation, the new doors opening daily and especially to those joining online.

    The party doesn’t yet have the organizational infrastructure to effectively absorb all the new members, especially in areas where no local organization exists. But new forms and methods are emerging, including use of web based tools for mobilization, organization, education and communication directly with the new members and many more who are interested in what the Party says and does.

    In short, the challenge remains to build a modern 21st century party of socialism in the United States in this new situation, one fully rooted in the American tradition of democratic struggle and history, capable of applying and elaborating Marxism to the current challenges, able to develop strategic approaches rooted in reality, uniting key class and social forces and millions at the grassroots in sharpening class battle, and elaborating a path to win a democratic and ecologically sustainable U.S. socialism."

Ronald Reagan: “… an American Socialist, Norman Thomas, six-time candidate for the President on the Social Party ticket said, Americans would never vote for socialism. But, he said, under Liberalism, Americans would adopt every fragment of a Socialist program.”

The article is a propaganda piece published - by the CPUSA

[ In Reply To ..]
You forgot to link the source while removing select passages out of their context. No problem. The article in its entirety is linked below.

Some interesting shifts in opinion (especially among youth, who typically spend about a decade shopping around for political ideologies before landing in one of the 2 major US parties) are described there. That the CPUSA is trying to take advantage of the focus on the recent labor movements developing nationwide is predictable and should surprise no one. Of special interest is the upsurge in visits to CPUSA and PW websites, which of course only signifies that freedom of speech and press are alive and well, and in no way translates to the alleged "potential" increase in membership upon which Webb is speculating.

More to the point would be the underlying reasons Americans are taking such an interest in labor movements and exploring their strategies, tactics, successes and outcomes. Let me first say why this is not happening. It is not happening because the Communist party has infiltrated the democrats or the democrats have embraced them into the fold. They are two distinctly separate parties, which I think I more than adequately illustrated in the even-older-news post by delineating major party platform differences between the two, which you have yet to dispute.

This is the place where we return to the recurring theme, loosely based on the can-of-worms theory. The right-wing GOP picked the wrong battle when they launched their union-busting assault on collective bargaining, not realizing the connections between union and middle class workers who share common interests. For every action, there is a reaction. It is, in fact, their legislative over-reach that is responsible for the shift in opinions and sudden increase in CP/PW web traffc described in the article.

Both the Communist and the Democratic parties will undoubtedly be united in a single cause, i.e. in their efforts to defend unions and the beleaguered, economicaly ravaged middle class between now and Nov 2012. To be sure, the labor movements will be front and center and inextricably tied to economy and jobs campaign themes and will be receiving much media attention for some time to come. IF this results in a bump in membership in or influence by the CPUSA, the pubs have no one to blame for this but themselves.

By the way, since you dispute the 2500 CPUSA member figure, please post the source of your claim that there are "many more" members. My figure came from the CPUSA. Finally, the modest goal of 1,500 new members, the 85% renewal rate in existing members (which represents a shrinking member base) and the "almost 60" youths who attended the CPUSA meeting/drive, described in the article, does not scare me nearly as much as the looming default deadline the congressional GOP seem to think is no biggie.

http://www.cpusa.org/communist-party-shows-new-growth-can-it-be-sustained/

yes - sm

[ In Reply To ..]

"Both the Communist and the Democratic parties will undoubtedly be united in a single cause (snip)" Bingo. That's exactly my point.

The Dems can stay of the side of the Communists. I've seen both sides up close. I'll stay on the side of free market capitalist. Besides, I don't hear of Americans sneaking into China or North Korea for a better life.

And I do believe there are more than 2500 members. Personal opinion. No links. Even still, don't kid yourself. There are many people who align themselves with the ideology of this group but aren't "card-carrying members" per se. Just because you don't register on their site as member doesn't mean you don't support them. Besides, there are many other satellite groups who have memberships. If the reason to minimialize their number of members was to sweep them under the rug and make it seem like they have no influence in this country, that's dangerous.

No, that is not your point. - You still don't get it.

[ In Reply To ..]
You do not have a clue what "united in a single cause" means within this context and I am done trying to dispel the delusions you cling to so tightly.

You are convinced that dems and commies as one in the same. Obviously, that is your main point and your posts are driven by your desire for others to validate this falsehood. Consider this. David Duke wants to run for president again (talk about delusional) and is trying to affiliate himself with the Tea Party whom some KKK members support. A miniscule number of tpots share white supremacist beliefs with David Duke. Bingo. That must mean that the entire Tea Party are closet clansmen who conspire to establish a US Nazi regime. NOT. This thinking, like yours, is textbook extremism, which some believe poses much more of a direct threat to our country than communism ever could.

You are entitled to your personal opinion. If you are determined to resurrect red scare mentality, embody it and broadcast it all over the place, be my guest. IMO, you have been listening to too much Glen Beck and have lost the capacity to be reasoned with...an opinion I am also entitled to hold and express. They are opinions, and not necessarily facts.

Clearly the realities of Communist membership, lack of influence and absence of any tangible evidence of so-called power do not sway you. No problem. Just do not expect those whose political beliefs you disparage and falsely portray to stand idly by while you rant without stepping forward to inject a healthy dose of common sense into the conversation.

the point - sm

[ In Reply To ..]

My rant? Wow, did you actually read what you posted??

I made my point in my post above titled "defending." I was talking about the radical left and mentioned it was NOT the majority of the Democrat party. I said I'm also concerned about the radical right. I said these left-wing radical groups are as dangerous as the right-wing ideologes and believe they should be called out also. I'm really not sure why that struck a nerve with you but it obviously did because, according to you, I'm clueless as to "united in a single cause" meaning and I have delusions, I'm convinced dems and commies are one in the same and have a desire to validate, my thinking is textbook extremism, I'm resurrescting red scare mentality and listening to Glen Beck and lost capacity to be reasoned with. You are just having a good time spewing those insults one after another, huh? I really thought we were actually having a civil debate and then you get going with the smears and I guess the civility gets tossed out the window. Sorry, but I'm not stooping into the mud-slinging and name-calling gutter with you. Have a nice night.

Nice to see you try to - dial it back a bit.

[ In Reply To ..]
Too little too late to be convincing, since your posts tell a different story. Perhaps it is you who needs to go back and read them again. You mentioned left-wing radical groups once, maybe twice, but spent the rest of your time in both your threads trying to thrust CP ideologies, tactics and strategies smack dab into the middle of the democratic party and even tried bringing Obama into the mix. When you weren't doing that, you were busy conflating communist power and influence from its near nonexistence to imminent threat. I am fed up with the partisan culture wars waged with the dissemination of divisive misinformation such as this that ultimately pits us against each other at a time when our country is in such dire straits. That is why I strongly dispute such insinuations. I take them seriously because the stakes are so high.

The GOP attack on unions and their belt-tightening economic assaults on the middle class are palpable for Americans who haven't seen a wage or salary increase in decades, been downsized, outsourced, laid off, joined the ranks of the long-term unemployed, lost their homes and retirement savings, have no health insurance, can't afford to get sick, see a doctor, buy medicines, send their kids to college, gas the car up, buy food, are approaching retirement and being threatened by vanishing social security and Medicare. The list goes on. For some of them, myself included, having to compete with manufactured distractions such as the birth certificate brouhah or, in this case, commie pinko scares, for their place in the national dialogue is the last straw. For most of them, it is PERSONAL.

I stand by my previous post because it expresses the frustration experienced when trying to reason with you over your misconceived characterization of the democratic party, progressives and liberals. We do share one thing in common...being tired of stooping to this level of discourse. While attempting to make that graceful exit in search of the high road, stake your claim to the last word with my full assurance that you and I are done here.

I think it's a bit early to rule out the GOP. - Zville MT

[ In Reply To ..]
The deadline to run for president isn't until September 1.

I don't think I said that, just they cannot seem to agree - on a candidate.

[ In Reply To ..]
I would add that it's kinda weird they are rejecting their own frontrunner who has been shown in a few polls to be competitive with Obama.

I think it is safe to say that the GOP is having a substantial problem with their enthusiasm gap and party unity. Anyway, all I meant was that major ideological fractures within either party tend to be detrimental in terms of delivering a victorious result in a presidential election, but you are right to point out there is plenty of time for this to reverse itself between now and then.

What I really meant was I don't think the winning candidate has announced yet. - Zville MT

[ In Reply To ..]
I think "the candidate" that the majority of the GOP will be able to get behind hasn't declared his candidacy yet.

I think the main rejection of Romney is RomneyCare and the fact that not only did Obama model his health care bill after it, but that now Romney is staying that he would repeal the health care bill - kinda hypocritical if you ask me. I know he's not the first politician to be a hypocrit, but at least most of them wait until they're elected to do it ;)

Do you have anyone specific in mind? If not - then

[ In Reply To ..]
what do you think that candidate wold look like? What questions would be on the lithmus test (for lack of a better word), aside from repealing HCR, being Pro-Choice and being vehemently opposed to revenue-generating economic policies? Even 8 years later, I believe the GOP will still need to distance/distinguish themselves from Bush style and certain policies of his, though I am sure some will disagree. It is almost impossible to understand who or what could rein in the right wing, convince the tea party to unite as opposed to splinter and bring moderates and former GOP independents back into the fold, given the near tectonic shift to the right that appears to have taken place among the ranks. I think it will require a little more than simply opposing Obama at every turn, which seems to be the only thing they have really been able to do since he was elected.

I'd like to see Allen West run - Zville MT

[ In Reply To ..]
Every time I hear from him, I like him more and more. I'm not sure about his abortion stance, but I know he's against the HCR. I think it would be a mistake to lump all the GOP in with the policies of the Bush administration - they're not all going to be like that (thank God!).

I can't tell you exactly what the litmus test would be, but I think we'll know the right candidate when he/she comes along.

Similar Messages:

Oct 18, 2012
I am not liking the United States anymore and it seems since Obama took office, a lot more countries absolutely hate us. I believe Obama administration is covering up the Libya attack so it will not make Obama look like he is "weak" when it comes to running our country. Now there was a near bombing in New York Federal Reserves. Supposedly, Iran was the one who did the cyber attacks at United States Banks. R is getting death threats. Someone had a gun shoot a b ...

Apr 17, 2011
I hope with everything I have in me that the Tea Party does not represent the Republican Party. This is what the Tea Party stands for. They are full of vitriole and hatred. This is not what the Republican party stands for. See comments by Republican Party of Orange County Chairman Scott Baugh, "It's just highly inappropriate, it's a despicable message, it drips with racism and I think she should step down from the committee," said Baugh. "Davenport, a tea party activist, represents t ...

Nov 06, 2012
...

Sep 05, 2012
So many great speakers. ...

Mar 02, 2011
It was an 8-1 vote - I think Justice Scali was the lone dissenter, but I'm not 100% sure. I salute groups like The Patriot Guard Riders who protect the families of these fallen heros. From CNN: A Kansas church that attracted nationwide attention for its angry, anti-gay protests at the funerals of U.S. military members has won its appeal at the Supreme Court, an issue testing the competing constitutional limits of free speech and privacy. The justices by a 8-1 vote on ...

Sep 04, 2012
a LOSER in my book. LOL Bet you didn't expect that, did you? ...

Apr 27, 2016
Love that in spite of Cruz and Kasich stupid plan to outwit the voters, Trump won overwhelmingly last night. Can't wait to see what happens in Indiana. Go Trump. ...

Jul 15, 2015
Sometimes an idea has to be set aside for a little while in order to allow it to ripen and bloom. ...

Nov 29, 2010
x ...

Oct 08, 2010
Imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo wins the Nobel Peace Prize. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39570682/ns/world_news It seems that most everything we buy these days is made in China. In my mind we are rewarding a communist regime when we buy their products. I will renew my efforts to avoid buying products made in China as a protest against their denial of basic human rights to their citizens. Just say NO to products made in China. Hopefully the eyes of the world ...

May 19, 2010
A waste of time in our courts? Didn't we all think she would be granted assylum? President Obama’s “Auntie Zeituni”, who was discovered by The Times living illegally in Boston, was granted asylum in America yesterday in a controversial decision that will fuel the already charged debate on illegal immigrants. A judge ruled that Zeituni Onyango, 57, the Kenyan half-sister of President Obama’s late father, would be allowed to stay in the country desp ...

Oct 12, 2012
I had no doubt he wouldn't win. Biden just doesn't have what it takes. He's rude, arrogant, condescending, disrespectful, and a downright liar. His bizarre laughing was very inappropirate and now people are starting to notice that he may be going senile. http://www1.whdh.com/features/articles/hiller/BO148931/ryan-won-vp-debate/ Ryan proved once again why we need a change in leadership. Or rather a change to leadership. ...

Sep 13, 2011
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44501985/ns/politics/#.TnAqp-xhiSo This seat had been held by Democrats since 1923. ...

Aug 13, 2011
Ron Paul was 2nd place. Very pleased with this result in a state filled with social cons. Michelle won by less than 200 votes. Hope this is a sign of change to come. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/michele-bachmann-wins-the-ames-straw-poll/2011/08/13/gIQApgnoDJ_blog.html ...

May 18, 2011
He took the lump sum of $850-something thousand. Poor guy. He's poor! this is the kind of stuff that HAS to stop. (WJBK) - A Michigan man has continued to accept food aid from the state even though he won big in a state lottery game and said he told officials about it. Leroy Fick won the $2 million jackpot in the "Make Me Rich!" contest in June. Despite receiving about $850,000 in winnings, the Auburn resident is still using his Michigan Bridge Card, an electronic version of food sta ...

Sep 20, 2012
Since Truman, no incumbent has been reelected with a poll number below 49% at this point in the election cycle. I am omitting Bush 2, who had 48% but whose reelection ultimately had to be decided by the courts so I think you have to simply toss this election out when looking at voter trends. As a general rule, undecideds almost always break away from the incumbent, and they will surely do so in the current environment - both globally, domestically and economically - in all of which areas ...

Oct 11, 2012
Biden was obviously up on the facts and ready to stop Ryan on the vague, no detail mularky. ...

Oct 26, 2012
And worse, suppose for whatever godforsaken reason, he were to serve two terms in the White House. Then it's almost a given, based on how that party has changed things in America for the worse for working men and women and their families, that by the end of his second term, the United States will BELONG TO CHINA. Without a single shot ever being fired. ...

Apr 03, 2016
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/ Bernie's picking up steam in the West! ...

Feb 20, 2016
Let's be having that indictment! ...

Nov 04, 2009
That unlike the GOVERNOR races, which went to the GOP, that this is one MORE Democratic seat in the Democratic-led Congress. ...

Nov 29, 2010
x ...

Nov 07, 2012
The new norm ...

Nov 10, 2012
nm ...

Nov 06, 2014
Tell me again who the racists are because I'm quite confused.During the election, liberal Democrats used the race card in an attempt to label all Republicans as racist. But when Tim Scott won his Senate race in South Carolina, liberalson Twitter went ballistic, Twitchy said Tuesday, hurling racial slurs against Scott, even though he has the honor of being the first African-American elected to the Senate from that state and the first elected ...

Dec 17, 2016
It doesn’t matter how many articles of clothing Phelan Moonsong puts on before walking out the door each day: If he’s not wearing his favorite pair of goat horns, the Pagan priest might as well be naked. Unless the 56-year-old Millinocket, Maine, man is sleeping or bathing, his beloved horns are rarely far from his scalp. It’s been that way since he first laid eyes on the horns at a Pagan men’s group gathering in 2009. A friend whose goat had recently died offered the horns to gr ...

Oct 28, 2012
Romney on disaster assistance: Transcript: KING: Governor Romney? You’ve been a chief executive of a state. I was just in Joplin, Missouri. I’ve been in Mississippi and Louisiana and Tennessee and other communities dealing with whether it’s the tornadoes, the flooding, and worse. FEMA is about to run out of money, and there are some people who say do it on a case-by-case basis and some people who say, you know, maybe we’re learning a lesson here that the states should ...

Dec 23, 2011
I just read an article that the governor of Iowa said if Ron Paul wins to just ignore it. I think that is totally outrageous. Doesn't the peoples votes count anymore? Just wondered what people thought of that. Statements like that just made my decision final. I will be voting for Ron Paul no matter what. ...

Sep 03, 2012
Do you honestly think anything is going to be any different no matter who wins the election? Neither one is the miracle worker they claim to be, and as long as Congress continues to be the giant kindergarten it has become, we'll still be screwed. Sorry to be such a pessimist, but that's how I feel right now. It's just nothing but empty promises. ...

Jul 12, 2015
Before Obama leaves, WW3 will occur. So, it will not matter who is president next term. Look out for Russia. Also, did you that the Statue of Liberty means ISIS, Goddess of Ishtar? Ishtar was introduced to the Greeks as Astarte through the Phoenicians. We can see that the lineage of the Greek and Roman goddess of the planet Venus goes all the way back to ancient Babylon of around 3,000 BC. What was Ishtar’s legacy in Babylon? Isthar (Statue of Liberty) means s ...