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Answers to Kentuckian from your 10th post

Posted: Nov 12, 2014

Sorry for the delay. Had stuff to do yesterday from the attorney I still help and he stresses me out because of his age ....anyway - I am breaking this down into a couple posts since the posts include your questions and my answers. This is part 1. Hope you have time to read them.

YOU SAID: Additionally, fracking requires water, which is in short demand in places in the US, but if methods were found to use another substance than water, it may be a viable option, but there's still the seismic issues to consider.

MY ANSWER: There’s a city in PA that has seismic activity all the time and it’s no where near any fracking or any other drilling. It’s been going on for years. So seismic issues do not really qualify. As for water, a lot of these companies are taking water from the stripping pits that dot the landscape and/or old mines that closed because they flooded. They then truck this water in to the fracking site. If you want, I can post some of the info when I find it again.

YOU SAID: I do not believe that Dems should block fracking until all the study results are in, but that's just it - from what I've read on both sides, both conservative and liberal press, the actual effects on the environment of the chemicals used during fracking are not yet known, only speculated upon, so unfortunately it is inaccurate to say that "it's been proven NOT to have environmental effects."

MY ANSWER: How many studies should they have? This has been going on for years (just like any other government agency study) and the last DEP study earlier this year said there was no problem.

;

Part 2 of your questions and answers - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
YOU SAID: You asked above what other ideas might we have?

Well, that's just it, we'll never know of other alternatives than these unless we allow or foster funding or grants to investigate other options, and focusing on only one option fosters dependency upon that thing, which is never a good thing - and I think you might agree to that, whether that "one thing" is public aid or an oil-based economy.

MY ANSWER: Why should we “allow” taxpayer funding or grants to investigate other options? Companies are the ones who are responsible for that, aren’t they since they are the ones who will profit from a proven alternative method? Taxpayer subsidies should be totally banned on businesses larger than 50 employees. Most businesses that large are profitable to begin with and for them to get subsidies besides isn’t. These subsidies should definitely be banned for the ethanol and any farms not family-oriented (“mom and pop” families), not owned by politicians, Tyson, Monsanto, etc.

What would we do in the meantime? Car hybrids or all electric are too expensive for ‘regular’ people to buy and there aren’t any electric power stations to go to for electricity (like gas stations). Take away coal-fired power plants and electricity will be 150% higher per KwH than it is now. As it is, costs for electric are rising now because of the new regulations being put in place by this administration.

YOU SAID: However, just like what happened when any other carmaker tried something different, "the big 3" shut them down, blocking funding for research, or dug up dirt on that effort (Tucker, Delorean), so I have my concerns about big business shutting down any attempt to do so and using lobbyists influence to do it.

MY ANSWER: I agree with you on the above point and don’t appreciate big business shutting down the Tucker car or DeLorean. There have been so many other products made for cars that the “big 3” shut down. I remember something about windshield wipers, motors, parts of motors to make them more efficient, etc. years ago. It’s just like treatment for illnesses. My husband read an article years ago about a doctor who had a cure for cancer, but the American Cancer Society lobbied the government to shut him and his treatment processes down.

Government research and development - where would we be?

[ In Reply To ..]
Some examples--NASA has developed countless products that private industry has found uses for and marketed for profit and created employment.

Highway safety, think about how you design a curve, guardrails, timing of merging lanes, build a bridge when your base is sand, granite, over water, etc. Then to build a highway, the private manufacturers and private contractors then build the projects according to specs. And yes, a lot of inspections have to be done because the private contractors love to cut corners to line their pockets.

Food and drug safety. Would you really want to be the first person to try out the Ebola vaccine produced by Walmart?

None of these things were accomplished in a day. Google Tennessee Valley Authority, watch the series "How We Got to Now" on PBS. We did not decide to go to the moon suddenly in 1969, and Rome was not built in a day. Private industry does not have the long-term resources to accomplish such projects.

Yes, I do not think companies should be subsidized UNLESS they can produce a grant proposal that has a budget and regular reporting of progress. Research and development employs scientists and engineers and supports the economy. We cannot leave this stuff to China and India, but leaving things up to the private sector is just plain nuts.

Not Kentucky.

Govt's main role in R&D is as a contractor. - In other words as a source of R&D funding.

[ In Reply To ..]
The vast majority of those "developments" you laud didn't come from the government. Although the government does do some R&D, it doesn't have the expertise or maintain the specialized resources to do research into every area of interest to the government, and so it contracts with outside sources - sometimes universities, but mainly private industry.

Instead of looking at the government as a source of innovation, you need to view the government as one of the world's biggest customers for innovation...but by no means the only one.

Not a chicken or the egg - no credit

[ In Reply To ..]
I did not say they do not contract projects out. I am saying that no one would bother to do them if they did not have an income stream because the cost is just too much.

The Apollo program that landed on the moon cost $23.9 billion.

The Golden Gate bridge would cost $1.2 billion in 2003 dollars.

We would not have either if the government (us) had not forked out the bucks to do so. The last time the Tpubs shut down the government, didn't you hear the private contractors howl?

Give the public a little credit.

But with Obamacare, R&D will be taxed in 2015 - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
That would affect medicine and any medical product. Right now Republicans are going to try to repeal the medical device tax.

Have you seen the flood of commercials for new drugs? I have a feeling they're trying to get all their products to market prior to the tax taking affect because the R&D tax might be significant.

Is that good governing? I don't think so. It's almost like the administration doesn't want companies to bring new cures through medicine or devices to help anyone. They can still do the research but what will those products cost? Look what prescriptions cost now....and no, it's not the middle man. I looked up the cost of a drug I have a prescription for direction from the manufacturer and it was over $200. What will that drug cost after the tax is attached?

Part 3 (and the longest) - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
YOU SAID: Having said that, TH, the only thing I do wish you would mention, which I'm sure you're not intentionally omitting (but rather, just focused on your point) is what reason the Dems stated for blocking these things other than just being ornery?

MY ANSWER: Truthfully, Harry Reid is and was the right hand of Obama. You could see that just by his political speeches made only against one party. You could also come to that conclusion when watching which bills were sponsored by a lawmaker and were sent on to whatever committee they were earmarked for and which ones were “stuffed in the desk.”
See:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304081804579560251530777852

The Washington Times reported in July of this year that:
Just 14 Senate bills have been signed into law so far this year. That’s nine fewer than at the same point in 2013, which itself is the most futile completed year on record, according to The Washington Times’ Legislative Futility Index.

Through the end of June, just 41 measures have been reported as being out of committees and gone to the Senate floor, which puts senators on pace for their worst year in more than three decades. Total bills considered are also down, as are roll-call votes on amendments……

But it’s Mr. Reid’s own personal record on amendments that stands out.
The average over the 25 years or so before Mr. Reid took office was slightly more than 2 percent. Former Senate Majority Leader Howard Baker, who passed away late last month, actually averaged less than 1 percent during his four-year tenure.
Mr. Reid’s numbers are just the opposite: In 2007, his first year as leader, he accounted for 3.2 percent of amendments. That jumped to 12.4 percent in 2008, 5.3 percent in 2009, 19.3 percent in 2010, 14.2 percent in 2011, 18.4 percent in 2012, 12.8 percent in 2013 and a stunning 33.6 percent so far this year.
It was actually closer to 40 percent just a few weeks ago, but Mr. Reid agreed to allow his colleagues to offer a few amendments to a bipartisan job-training bill, which ended up passing overwhelmingly.
(MY NOTE: Reid was blocking bills because of amendments that were added by the House…and for naysayers here, none of the recent ones were to repeal Obamacare as some sites would have people believe).
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/7/harrys-rules-reid-dominates-crippled-congress/#ixzz3ImEfXrZa

From the National Review in January 2014 (you need to read the whole article. It’s long and not all here):
The New York Times reported last week on Reid’s “brutish style” and “uncompromising control” over the amendments process in the Senate. Why are more people finally catching on to Reid’s flagrant disregard for Senate customs? In part because conservatives aren’t the only ones complaining.

Democrats such as Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota — who wants to repeal Obamacare’s medical-device tax — and Kirsten Gillibrand of New York — who has waged a highly publicized campaign to reform the way the military handles sexual-assault cases — have been denied votes on their proposed amendments to various bills. Gillibrand had hoped to attach her sexual-assault amendment to the defense-appropriations bill that passed in December, but no amendments were allowed. Klobuchar has called for “a more open amendment process” because she’d like a vote on repealing the medical-device tax.

Moderate Republicans who occasionally vote with Democrats and help broker bipartisan compromise are annoyed as well. Senator Lisa Murkowki of Alaska told the New York Times she was “kind of fed up” with Reid’s obstructionism. “He’s a leader. Why is he not leading this Senate? Why is he choosing to ignore the fact that he has a minority party that he needs to work with, that actually has some decent ideas? Why is he bringing down the institution of the Senate?” …..

Reid’s tight control of the amendments process has become a point of contention in the debate over unemployment benefits, which he’d like to extend without providing funding for the program. ….

Allowing a “reasonable number of relevant amendments” from the minority party has not always been considered a concession in the Senate. It was once referred to as “regular order.” Despite Reid’s claims that he has been “very generous with amendments,” the number of amendment votes per year (not counting non-binding budget amendments, which by law cannot be limited) has declined from 218 in 2007, when Reid became majority leader, to 67 in 2013. Since July of last year, Republicans have been allowed a grand total of FOUR (4) amendments.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368369/harry-reids-obstructionism-andrew-stiles

Another NYTimes article also writes about Reid’s obstructionism. I will not print any part of the article because of the length of my post already but you can read it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/reids-uncompromising-power-play-in-senate-rankles-republicans.html?_r=0

Or, how about Reid Blocks GOP Amendments to Outsourcing Bill:
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/213550-reid-blocks-gop-amendments-to-outsourcing-bill

Or this one from the Washington Post from July 2014:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/08/04/harry-reids-reign-of-paralysis/

How many of those bills that Harry Reid tabled had...sm - Rosie

[ In Reply To ..]
repeal of the ACA or part of it repealed? Seems like I heard something about that.

What you don't seem to understand is that - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
Reid controls what comes up for a vote and what doesn't.

Amendments also fall into that control. He has the ability to bring a bill to a vote WITHOUT an amendment. He can pick and chose what amendments he wants to include in a bill and has done it many times. It's no reason NOT to bring the bill up for debate or a vote.

So that's not an excuse. Most of the jobs bills had amendments to repeal Obamacare. Reid decided not to bring the whole bill to the floor. Why? Because it most were written by a Republican that's why, not because of the amendment to repeal Obamacare. He's just plain vindictive.

If the Republicans had wanted to vote on a bill - It could have been clean

[ In Reply To ..]
why would they want to attach repeal Obamacare? If they were serious about a bill, the Republican poison pills would not have been added.

Republicans may hold government funding - hostage

[ In Reply To ..]
The games continue

I think the Republicans win the obstruction contest - SM

[ In Reply To ..]
Senate Republicans have blocked more than 73 amendment votes from taking place on the floor. (113th Congress 2013/2014) [1]

That includes:
36 votes on Republican amendments blocked by Senate Republicans
31 votes on Democratic amendments blocked by Senate Republicans
6 votes on bipartisan amendments blocked by Senate Republicans

Senator McConnell, the self-declared “proud guardian of gridlock,” has personally blocked 20 amendment votes in the 113th Congress alone.

Senator Grassley has personally blocked the most amendment votes of any Republican senator, blocking 37 amendment votes in the 113th Congress alone.

Amendment Votes Blocked by Republicans in the 113th Congress

March 18, 2013: Sen. Ayotte (R-NH) objected to votes on 8 Republican amendments. Sen. Moran said he also would have objected. [Floor Activity, 3/18/13]

- Coburn #69 (prohibit Urban Area Security Initiative Grants not improving homeland security);
- Coburn #93 (transfer funds from National Heritage Partnership Program to fund White House public tours and maintenance at public parks/monuments);
- Coburn #65, as modified with the changes that are at the desk (National Science Foundation funding);
- Coburn #70, as modified with the changes that are at the desk (authorizing committees receive information from Homeland Security);
- Inhofe #72, as modified with changes that are at the desk (require Secretaries of Military Departments to carry out tuition assistance programs);
- Grassley #76, as modified with changes that are at the desk (report illegal aliens released due to budget constraints);
- Mikulski-Shelby #98 (technical corrections); and
- Leahy #129, as modified with changes that are at the desk (to revise language regarding cluster munitions); and
- Pryor-Blunt #82 (poultry inspections).

June 4, 2013: Sen. Toomey objected to calling up 3 Republican amendments. [Floor Activity, 6/4/13]

- Landrieu #1113 (flood insurance)
- Johnson SD-Crapo #1117 (flood insurance)
- Cardin #1159 (side by side to Grassley #1097) and
- Grassley #1097 (protect information of livestock producers)

June 12, 2013: Sen. Grassley (R-IA) objected to votes on two Republican amendments. [Floor Activity, 6/12/13]

- Grassley #1195 (border security);
- Thune #1197 (permanent resident status after border completion);
- Vitter #1228 (biometric check in system);
- Landrieu #1222 (adoption); and
- Tester #1198 (modify Border Oversight Task Force to include tribal government officials).

June 26, 2013: Sen. Grassley objected to votes on 18 Republican amendments. [Floor Activity, 6/26/13]

- Sessions #1334;
- Hirono #1718;
- Fischer #1594;
- Blumenthal #1636;
- Vitter #1445;
- Brown #1311;
- Toomey #1599;
- Hagan #1386;
- Coats #1563;
- McCaskill #1457;
- Johnson (WI) #1380;
- Boxer #1260;
- Cruz #1580;
- Feinstein #1250;
- Lee #1214;
- Udall (NM) #1218;
- Vitter #1577;
- Tester #1459;
- Vitter #1474;
- Heitkamp #1593;
- Lee #1207;
- Whitehouse #1419;
- Cruz #1579;
- Udall (NM) #1691;
- Cruz #1583;
- Heinrich #1342;
- Cruz #1585;
- Reed (RI) #1608;
- Cruz #1586;
- Nelson-Wicker #1253;
McCain-Cardin #1469; and
- Portman-Tester #1634.

November 18, 2013: Sen. Inhofe (R-OK) objected to votes on a Republican Guantanamo amendment and two bipartisan sexual assault amendments [Floor Activity, 11/18/13]

- Republican Leader, or designees (Guantanamo)
- Democratic side-by-side (Guantanamo)
- Gillibrand, or designee (sexual assault)
- McCaskill-Ayotte (sexual assault)

January 14, 2014: Sen. McConnell objected to votes on up to 20 amendments. [Floor Activity, 1/14/14]

Prior to the vote, Senator Reid asked consent to vitiate cloture and consider the bill under certain parameters including the consideration of a new Reed substitute, 5 additional amendments on each side, and passage of H.R.2009, as amended by the Unemployment Insurance Extension language. Senator McConnell objected and asked that it be in order to consider amendments in an alternating fashion indefinitely. Senator Reid objected to McConnell’s request.

June 19, 2014: Sen. McConnell objected to any amendments. [Floor Activity, 6/19/14]

Senator Reid asked unanimous consent that the post-cloture time on the motion to proceed be considered expired, that the Senate proceed to vote on adoption of the motion to proceed and if the motion is agreed to, Senator Mikulski, or her designee, be recognized to offer the substitute amendment #3244, which consists of:

- the text of Calendar #411, S.2437, as Division A (Senate-reported CJS Appropriations bill),
- the text of Calendar #412, S.2438, as Division B (Senate-reported THUD Appropriations bill), and
- the text of Calendar #390, S.2389, as Division C (Senate-reported Agriculture Appropriations bill);

further, that for the consideration of Division B, Calendar #430, H.R.4745(House-passed THUD Appropriations bill), and for the consideration of Division C, H.R.4800, as reported by the House Committee on Appropriations (Agriculture bill), be deemed House-passed text in H.R.4660 for purposes of rule 16 and that the substitute amendment offered by Senator Mikulski, or her designee, be considered a committee amendment for the purposes of paragraph 1 of rule 16 and all amendments or motions to commit be subject to a 60 affirmative vote threshold.

Republicans even blocked their own amendments? - Amazing - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

Yes, because they were being wrapped up together with - Democrat "poison pills".

[ In Reply To ..]
Don't just believe anything you read.

Part 4 (and the last) - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
BTW, remember the budget deal back in 2013 that Senate Republicans were unable to stop military pension cuts when Senate Democrats blocked a vote on an amendment to prevent the cuts by closing a welfare loophole for illegal immigrants Tuesday evening?

“Tuesday evening, Sessions attempted to force Majority Leader Harry Reid allow amendments the budget agreement.”…
…Sessions hoped to attach his amendment to the deal — which would have closed the loophole by requiring a Social Security number to claim the refundable portion of the child tax credit and restore military retirement benefits….
…Sessions’ motion failed on a 46 to 54 party-line vote, with North Carolina Sen. Kay Hagan crossing the aisle as the lone Democrat to vote with the Republicans….
“Reid’s majority just voted to keep pension cut for vets instead of cutting welfare payments to illegal aliens,” a Sessions aide emailed.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/18/senate-dems-block-amendment-to-restore-veteran-benefits-by-closing-illegal-immigrant-welfare-loophole/

Of course, that doesn't mean we'll actually believe the reason they stated for blocking, but I would at least appreciate the reasons they stated, at the time, so we could make a better informed decision.

YOU SAID: Speaking of which, I read your post below mentioning me at the top (the one regarding Dems blocking Republican mortgage and banking-solution bills before they became law before Obama's presidency).

However, I noticed the article did not state what reason the Dems gave for blocking these bills, do you happen to have that information?

MY ANSWER: This answer may be in the above articles. But one article I just read stated that Reid does it to protect Democrats from having to cast votes that “would put them in a tight spot” where re-election could hamper the majority Senate.

YOU SAID: Additionally, the Republicans had the majority in both chambers from 2003 to 2007 - so in other words, can you explain how it was that the Dems managed to block these bills, though they were in the minority in both Senate and the HOR, as well as even if they were able to accomplish it, what reason they state for doing so?

MY ANSWER:: Try these sites on for size:

Here’s a paragraph from the following link:
Much if not all of that could have been prevented by a bill cosponsored by John McCain and supported by all the Republicans and opposed by all the Democrats in the Senate Banking Committee in 2005. That bill, which the Democrats stopped from passing, would have prohibited the GSEs from speculating on the mortgage-based securities they packaged. The GSEs' mission allegedly justifying their quasi-governmental status was to package or securitize such mortgages, but the lion's share of their profits—which determined top executives' bonuses—came from speculation.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB122290574391296381

Or this:
Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/

The following link is a timeline directly from the WH: In fact all the links seem to answer your question:
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html

(Again, doesn't mean we'd believe that reason, but I would like to know what reason they gave)

Thank you

(Again, posting from a different location tonight. I was thinking about that. What about moderation reviewing comments before they're released rather than cleanup later?)

Pre-emptive excuses? - Thinking ahead

[ In Reply To ..]
The 2003 to 2007 Republican majority in Congress, with a Republican president, did nothing to avoid the Bush financial depression. (Btw, I am sure they knew way before the official collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. that there were major problems coming, do you really think they were surprised?)

So, next year, when Republicans will once again have total control of Congress, are you trying to make excuses why they will once again not accomplish anything?

Guess you didn't read my whole post with links? - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
It explained a lot.

If only it were...... - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

What city in PA and info on water source please - Not Kentucky

[ In Reply To ..]
Our area is going through a permitting process for copper and nickel mining. The water studies have said that it will take 500 years for the water to decontaminate--much longer than the company will ever be here.

Anecdotal situations do not mean it is safe everywhere (or vice-versa) Check Oklahoma and Texas regarding earthquake activity. Stating it is not a problem is like saying Grandpa smoked 2 packs a day and died of old age at 93. Really? Do you want to chance it?

Like my dad always said, if all your friends want to jump off a bridge, are you stupid enough to do it too?

a city in PA with seismic activity - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
does not obviate the need to investigate seismic activity due to fracking any more than volcanoes in Hawaii would be relevant to a volcano springing up in New York City.

Further, before anyone discusses water and fracking, let it be known that The Halliburton Loophole EXCLUDES fracking pollution from the Clean Water Act.

The government has REMOVED Clean Water safeguards with respect to the fracking industry.

Oklahoma fracking and earthquakes - ClearMind

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't think it a coincidence.

Logic - ClearMind

[ In Reply To ..]

There is no fracking in PA area so the seismic activity is not related to fracking, thus

Fracking does not cause seismic activity.

is not logical.

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Not ONCE since I've come on this board have I hijacked anyone's thread, called anyone names, called any POLITICIAN an unkind name or treated anyone with less than courtesy and respect. I create posts that I think are interesting or will encourage an adult, respectful exchange of information. And there was certainly nothing in this one to warrant the responses that ensued. I don't engage in the flaming tactics and I would appreciate it if my posts weren't used for ...

Nov 09, 2012
This is in response to Iluvsocialsecurity post who wrote that it would cost millions to implement Voter I.D. requirements. Come on be realistic. You know you have to have an I.D., you pull it out and have it in your hand when you sign in. You vote. Please enlighten me as to the cost issue of "millions to implement." ...

Jan 08, 2013
It was "inappropriate and in bad taste, considering the deaths at Sandy Hook School." I find that so ironic. Conservatives make it gun appreciation day, and the post is removed by the moderator for bad taste. I agree, it's bad taste. But why can't we discuss it? ...

Sep 09, 2013
It was brought to my attention today just what the Medical Excise Tax entails...check out Notice 2012-77, especially for hospitals, doctors, etc. Medical Device Excise Tax: Frequently Asked Questions Q1. What is the medical device excise tax? A1. Section 4191 of the Internal Revenue Code imposes an excise tax on the sale of certain medical devices by the manufacturer or importer of the device. Q2. When does the tax go into effect? A2. The tax applies to sales of taxable medical de ...

Sep 27, 2013
about who wrote Obamacaresux and why doesn't Bozo know what's in it? Check out Robert Creamer and the Apollo Alliance. Do your own research. ...

Oct 11, 2013
THIS BURNS ME UP. NOBODY NOTICED UNTIL NOW. ALTHOUGH A LOT OF US CAUGHT IT AND WERE LAUGHED AT AS CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, HERE IT IS IN HIS OWN WORDS. DO NOT ADD A SINGLE WORD ! READ "AS IT IS QUOTED"! Yes, he told us in advance what he planned to do. Few were listening. The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised "Meet The Press'. From Sunday's 07 Sept.2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance ...

Oct 14, 2013
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Oct 14, 2013
Wow! This post needs to be renamed Henny Penny. ...

Nov 21, 2013
You tube videos anymore. I just tried posting another one entitled, "7 lies in under 2 minutes". Keeps telling me there is no http://. There is, so.... Anyway, if you're interested, I know you're not, but if so, just google the following: 1. Obama promising to bring troops home from Afghanistan, and 2. 7 lies in under 2 minutes. You'll find his mug right there. ...

Feb 27, 2015
Just wondering how your little Chihuahua furry friend has been doing? Been thinking about him. ...

Feb 24, 2012
God giving us too much to handle. I took my ex to court to get more child support. I found out today he is going to (supposed to) pay over double what I was getting. this will help sooo much!!! Not sure what will happen if he does not pay, but the papers said something about contempt. ...