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Very exciting case beginning today!
Posted: Mar 26, 2013
Supreme Court gay marriage arguments begin today. Lots of peaceful supporters of gay marraige are present. Protesters against gay marriage expected to arrive later in the morning, according to the article. Let's hope the whole thing remains peaceful.
On Wednesday, the court will consider the 1996 federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which limits the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples. Rulings in both cases are expected by the end of June.
In what were scheduled to be about three hours of deliberations with lawyers over the two days, the justices will have their say on what gay activists see as a civil rights issue reminiscent of famous Supreme Court cases of the past, including Loving v. Virginia, a 1967 case in which the court invalidated bans on interracial marriage.
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This blog gives a blow-by-blow - You have to read from bottom up.
[ In Reply To ..]On Monday, Virginia Democrat Mark Warner said he supported marriage equality, saying in a Facebook post that he does so “because it is the fair and right thing to do.” Alaska Democrat Mark Begich also announced his support for gay marriage, saying in a statement that “Government should keep out of individuals' personal lives—if someone wants to marry someone they love, they should be able to,” Buzzfeed reported. Missouri Democrat Claire McCaskill said in a Tumblr post over the weekend that “I have come to the conclusion that our government should not limit the right to marry based on who you love.”
Earlier this month, Ohio Republican Sen. Rob Portman and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also said they now support gay marriage. Sen. Portman is the first current Republican to publicly support gay marriage. Bill Clinton also recently said that the Defense of Marriage Act, which he signed, should be overturned. (DOMA is being argued tomorrow.)
8:33 amAdd a Comment
As we shift to the next segment, a quick roundup of recent politicians to state support for gay marriage, long a hot-button issue.
8:31 amby Brent KendallAdd a Comment
Next up: Theodore B. Olson, representing groups that want Prop 8 struck down.
8:26 amby Brent Kendall | Photo: Associated PressAdd a Comment
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg raised the Supreme Court’s 1987 ruling in Turner v. Safley, where the court ruled that prison inmates have a right to marry. She said prisoners enjoyed that marriage right even though there was no prospect that they could procreate because they were incarcerated.
8:24 amby Brent KendallAdd a Comment
Mr. Cooper responded that even for older couples, it’s rare that both parties to such a marriage are infertile. Very few men outlive their fertility, he said. The courtroom audience groaned.
8:24 amby Brent Kendall | Photo: Associated PressAdd a Comment
Justice Stephen Breyer noted that there are lots of opposite-sex couples that can’t have children yet choose to get married. Justice Kagan jumped in to ask about opposite-sex couples that choose to get married after the age of 55. There aren’t a lot of children coming out of those relationships, she said, prompting laughter from the courtroom audience.
8:22 amby Brent KendallAdd a Comment
Justices Stephen Breyer, Elena Kagan and Ruth Bader Ginsburg dominated the questioning at the end of Mr. Cooper’s argument time. Each of the three justices questioned the argument that same-sex marriage interferes with a traditional goal of marriage: procreation.
8:19 amby Evan PerezAdd a Comment
Justice Scalia came to Mr. Cooper's rescue after several minutes, saying Mr. Cooper should have mentioned states that ban adoption by gay couples, and diverging studies on whether there is any adverse impact of child-rearing by same-sex couples. "That's a possible deleterious effect," he asked.
Justice Ginsburg interrupted to say that the issue Justice Scalia raised wasn't at issue in the case. Justice Scalia responded that it was relevant. "I take no position on whether it's harmful or not," Justice Scalia said.
Justice Kennedy noted that there is much not yet known about the impact of same-sex marriage -- five years versus 2000 years of history, he noted. But he also noted that 40,000 children already being raised by same-sex couples have an interest in their parents rights.
8:17 amby Evan PerezAdd a Comment
Justice Sotomayor asked Mr. Cooper whether the state could discriminate against gays by denying jobs or benefits. She asked if there is any "rational basis" for the state to treat homosexual couples differently in those cases. Mr. Cooper replied, "I do not have anything to offer you."
Then why aren't gay couples a class that should be protected in marriage law, she asked. Mr. Cooper said the state had an interest because of procreation, which traditional marriage is built around. He argued that genderless marriage could lead to "harm to the institution" of marriage over time.
8:08 amby Brent KendallAdd a Comment
The morning’s arguments will run longer than the planned hour. Chief Justice Roberts gave Mr. Cooper additional time to respond to the court’s constant barrage of questions.
8:07 amby Evan PerezAdd a Comment
Chief Justice Roberts moved Mr. Cooper along after about 10 minutes of a discussion on standing. Mr. Cooper tried to frame his arguments around the ongoing national debate over same-sex marriage and urged the court not to intervene and not make a decision for all 50 states on an "agonizingly difficult issue."
8:01 amby Evan PerezAdd a Comment
Charles Cooper, attorney for Prop 8 backers, appeared at times to struggle in trying to make his intended arguments because the justices kept interrupting him. Justice Sotomayor asked what "injury" was suffered by the people trying to defend Prop 8. Mr. Cooper replied that it wasn't a matter of an injury to any persons, but rather "injury to the state."
Good sources, guys, thanks. Fertility? I guess they - need to argue all points, but a whole
[ In Reply To ..]lot of people get married for other reasons and have no intention, and/or ability, to have children.
As long as straight people can get married without requirement to try to have children and as long as the government confers special benefits and rights on married couples, such as SS survivor benefits, seems to me requiring married couples to be able to create children together would be a special form of discrimination targeted at homosexuals.
Yeah, I don't really get the children thing. - Nacho.
[ In Reply To ..]My husband and I are childless by choice; no one informed us of a procreation requirement...
the bible tells us so - NK
[ In Reply To ..]Somewhere in the bible it says a union/sex is to be only for the purpose of procreation and for any other reason is a sin. Sin is rampant in the world. :)
Oh, that's why we're all sinners needing - redemption... Gotcha. :) nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
Seriously. They can discuss but can't go there in their decision. - It'd open the door for governments to
[ In Reply To ..]stick their nose into every marriage and legislate childbearing duties. As we see from what's going on in various state legislatures, those who are determined to force their own religion on all of us are always among us.
same here - priceless
[ In Reply To ..]The bias of the religious right is so entrenched, they don't even realize they are applying faith-based definitions to social phenomena.
By predicating marriage on procreation, these idiots would effectively invalidate my marriage and the marriages of all people too old to procreate.
Perhaps the religious right could even advocate no-fault divorce for individuals duped into marriage by partners subsequently found to be infertile.
And what about all those people who find love at 80 years old?
Umhm, and they were discussing the term "marriage" - with sacred connotations, not just civil. Which
[ In Reply To ..]is fine for discussion, but government is precluded from involving itself in religious activity by the First Amendment. So they're discussing a lot of attitudes rampant in society and terms casually used that cannot be reflected in federal law under the Constitution.
"Government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Since lack of belief in some kind of god or creator is also considered religious belief, this covers everyone.
Kennedy's comments are really hopeful, since he's often the swing vote. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]... During a roughly 85-minute argument that was both unusually long and, at times, markedly heated, the court’s conservative and liberal justices exposed fundamental differences that foreshadow difficult decisions to come. Tellingly, the frequent swing vote, Justice Anthony Kennedy, revealed some personal ambivalence.
In a positive sign for gay marriage supporters, Kennedy voiced strong sympathy for the approximately 40,000 California children who have been adopted by gay couples.
“They want their parents to have full recognition,” Kennedy said, with evident feeling, adding that “the voice of these children is important in this case.”
But in a sign of just how complicated the outcome could be, Kennedy and Justice Stephen Breyer mused aloud about whether the Supreme Court should even have agreed to hear the case called Hollingsworth v. Perry at all. ...
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/03/26/186953/supreme-court-enigmatic-as-ever.html#storylink=cpy
I vote nay. - Just me
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Well, I hope they are brave and make a broadly reaching - definitive decision that'll stand for centuri
[ In Reply To ..]As I'm sure you do too, just in your case a big no, and in mine a big yes. Neither of us are going to be happy with some waffling around little decision that fails to settle this issue.
Imagine - BillyJoe
[ In Reply To ..]
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