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To Conservative MT


Posted: Sep 30, 2011

I decided to bring my reply to the top since the previous thread is about to fall off the screen.  Your thorough and thoughtful disclosures of your beliefs and take on various candidates in no way resemble a soap-box dialog.  I have learned a lot about my own attitudes and stereotypical thinking about conservatives from you and really appreciate your taking the time to post. 

Yep.  I can relate to the flip-flop and trust issues you have with Romney.  It has been a bitter pill for me to swallow with regard to democrats and Obama, but if you can put your foot down, so can I.  In spite of my pronounced fears over facing future GOP term presidencies, I think I would not be honest with myself if I simply cast a vote against a party when I can no longer see any real difference between the two parties, so you’ve got me rethinking what to do next year with a different pile of BS coming out of the dem camp. 

Despite the hypocrisy you mentioned about Al Gore’s use of his private jet (lol), I don’t think that man-made global warming is a scam, nor do I believe that the exponential increase in greenhouse emissions in the last 100 years and its theoretical effects on climate should be discounted. Hypocrites are not necessarily wrong.  They are just hypocrites and their hypocrisy is always problematic in terms of credibility, but that does not turn fact to fiction.  The science tells me the intelligent approach to this problem would be a healthy skepticism, weighted in favor of the possibility that humans have become significant contributors to conditions that have detrimental effects on climate and the environment and that we should proceed accordingly.  The doubts should not obstruct progressive awareness and focus on the problem, nor should they impede innovative approaches to possible solutions.  Otherwise, IMO, the stakes are just too high to simply dismiss the theories as normal climate cycling, though I do acknowledge that possibility as well.  Beyond all that, there is no doubt that fossil fuels are on their way to extinction and that green energy alternatives merit just as much future investment as their endangered predecessors.  In that regard, I think we agree.

I agree with many points you raised about our involvement in the Middle East and that Islamic extremism is an unfortunate fact of life.   I do not believe terrorists represent mainstream Islam, nor do they speak for the overwhelming majority of populations in Moslem nations, whose people are every bit as threatened and directly impacted by these fanatics as we are.  I think blanket bombing in response to 9/11 of those nations where extremist factions reside, though understandable, would only serve to propel more moderate Moslems in the direction of their religiously based Ummah and away from their more practical national identities and ideologies, which vary widely across the region. 

Not nearly enough has been done under past and current administrations in the way of diplomacy, which ultimately after wars is what insures long-term peace and cooperation between nations.   I strongly believe that unless and until the issue of Palestinian statehood is resolved, the terrorists will continue to be successful in recruiting endless number of members and assembling their own coalitions of the willing.  An effective two-sided solution to that problem would pretty much take the wind out of their sails and serve to marginalize them back into the fringe minority corner where they belong.  Beyond that, I respectfully decline to further discuss our so-called “ally” (who has put itself in a bad situation), since I know my strongly-held views on this are highly inflammatory to most Americans.           

Your views on DADT are really unique.  I had never really thought of that possibility which you described as “reaching a bit,” but all things considered, it could happen.  What that tells me is that you really seem to be what once was referred to as a “compassionate conservative.”  The only thing I would add is that I think the possibility of frivolous law suits is fairly remote and one would hope it would not eclipse gay rights to serve the country. 

I don’t know much about Joe Manchin, but he seems to be someone who takes his job as representative of the PEOPLE of his state (as opposed to any self-serving agenda) very seriously.   The reasons he gave for voting against cloture on the National Defense Authorization Act (containing repeal of DADT) were solid and indicative of the responsibility he evidently feels towards all WV voters.   This may be kind of off the wall, but I think Scott Brown has those same qualities and had I been a resident of Massachusetts, I would have voted for him over his democratic opponent. 

I am conflicted on the role of “big government” on the federal level, but I can honestly say I agree with that concept as it applies to the state.  I live in Texas where my husband and I have had PLENTY of suffering thrown our way recently by evolving senseless new policies that almost destroyed his business.  It’s immigration related (he’s from the Middle East and came here in 1985 as a refugee).  It’s a long story, but suffice to say the loss amounted to around $60,000 worth of investment and the absurd policy has substantially restricted his income.          

I agree with everything you said about tax rates and revenues going to the current administration.   

Say it ain’t so.  I’d like to believe there are MORE conservatives out there like you who favor logic and independent rational thinking over party dogma.  I will side-step the comments about the Middle East and Islamic extremists other than to say that in the case of Iran (where my husband is from and where my sister lives with her husband), there is no real viable mechanism under the current oppressive Islamic rule for regime change and unfortunately, unlike other Arab Spring countries, no change is on the horizon anytime soon, despite the best efforts of the youth, urban and educated classes to foster democratic revolution there.  Rest assured, those folks are down for the count for the time being, but are by no means out of the running.  It’s just such a huge subject to address which I will defer to another occasion should the opportunity arise.  My stomach is grumbling and dinner is yet to be conceived, let alone prepared!   I look forward to exchanging future posts with you, Conservative MT. 

;

I think conservatives and liberals - Conservative MT

[ In Reply To ..]
may have more in common than we thought. Our conversation proves that. If politicians could focus more on that common ground, perhaps we would have more reaching across the aisle than we do currently. United we stand. Unfortunately we are too busy bickering amongst ourselves to truly be united....and this board is good proof of the bickering amongst ourselves.

Thank you so much for the intelligent conversation. I have enjoyed this so much!

While we are discussing Middle East issues, I was curious as to your thoughts on the assissination of Alwaki. I have a liberal friend of mine who is totally disgusted by it because we literally killed a fellow American without due process. I was wondering if you felt the same.

Forgot to mention that I have mixed - Conservative MT

[ In Reply To ..]
feelings about the killing of al-Awlaki. I can see both sides of this as well.

I am incredibly conservative and I do not - like the way that killing went down at all.

[ In Reply To ..]
Amongst my conservative friends, I am the most conservative of the bunch. Who knew that I would EVER have anything in common with the ACLU?

It bothers me too - Conservative MT

[ In Reply To ..]
I thought as an American citizen you had the right to stand trial for your crime(s). I don't like what al-Awlaki was doing and he should have been punished for his crimes, but I'm really disturbed that our country could assissinate an American without giving him his right to a fair trial, etc. I need to do some more research on this but just going by what I do know...it is upsetting to me. On one side I'm glad he is out of the picture, but on the other side...what right do we have to just kill one of our citizens without due process?
We don't, but was it the wrong thing to do? That's the rub. - Laws on this need clarification. sm
[ In Reply To ..]
No gettin' around the reality that after-the-fact is the wrong time for that to happen. One thing is for sure. I cannot imagine what his family is going through.
Yes, It was the wrong thing to do because it was - not legal. As much as I
[ In Reply To ..]
don't like him, it is a slippery slope if we start killing citizens without due process. First, it's the person I don't like. Next, it's the person I don't care about and then it's me. If we can deny due process to one citizen and nobody cares, we can deny it to others. We have to be better than that.

show me the proof - Dish

[ In Reply To ..]
I for one am very troubled by lack of proof of either Bin Laden's or this killing. They say in the current administration release of any photos would jeopardize the security of our forces or homeland which has always been the conservative position. I am extremely concerned about his Chicago thug tactics, how he takes enemies out, and his increasingly dictator like actions, which this is.

Great question. The short answer would be - hopelessly conflicted and deeply troubled. sm

[ In Reply To ..]
My gut emotional reaction is similar to your friend's, but this situation is a textbook case of what happens at the intersection of political principles/ethical perceptions with the gut-wrenching undeniable realities and formidable challenges we face in the war on terror. The ying in me is going, "You go, O. Attaboy. Show 'em how it's done," while the yang is saying, "OMG, never endicted, no due process? What is THAT?" The long version of this answer would start with something like, "Calm down. Hold your horses. This issue is MUCH bigger than one man (commander-in-chief), the entire administration or the political hay that will be pitched over it on both sides."

My real thinking on it gravitates back in the direction of my personal desire to preserve the overall principle of due process and letter of the law. I think the legal foundations that would serve to justify this action have not be laid, not only in terms of charges, evidence and conviction, but more importantly in terms of governmental authority (whether it be that of the president, the DOJ or Congress). There are specifics I'd like to cite to further discuss this line of thinking, but I'm in the middle of a long neglected housekeeping project, so I will have to come back later this afternoon and post an addendum to this reply.

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