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Still waiting for some outrage from Trumpeters

Posted: Mar 19, 2017

about his numerous trips to his Florida mansion to play golf. Every trip costs the country 3 million dollars and he has already spent more in 2 months than Obama spent in a year yet there were numerous complaints about Obama wasting taxpayer money. Also proposing tax cuts for billionaires and cutting funds for Medicaid. I see a lot of posts on this board about being Christian. Do these policies fit in with Christian principles?

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I do not accept your premise, therefore I am not outraged. - "Tax cuts for the rich"

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left mantra is old.

What don't you accept? - old and burned out

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Look at the Republican budget. Right mantra is old - everything for the 1% and screw the poor.

Screw the poor? We have trillions since the "Great Society" - on the poor. People move in and out

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of wage brackets. The poor get tax credits which is the same as tax cuts.

Most people who benefit from tax cuts are business owners who use that to hire more people, not the 1%.

Same trickle down baloney - old and burned out

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that we've heard before. The biggest cuts are going to the top brackets.

If tax cuts are based on percentages, then those who - earn more will get more "tax cuts"

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than those who earn less.

The 1% - old and burned out

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are getting a larger percentage tax cut than the poor. Also corporations are getting huge percentage cuts; this would be okay if they really do close the loopholes. That remains to be seen.

Only in America can the top 10% who pay 70% of all income taxes - can be accused of not paying their

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fair share by people who pay the lowest amount and some even nothing.

This chart is quite an eye-opener.

My sister is "wealthy" by the left's standards.She went to school, - trained for 11 years. She works

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16 hours a day sometimes, weekends, holidays, nights, kids soccer games, etc. all for compensation that is less than some other professionals. She is a doctor. She pays huge taxes and the government is shrinking her compensation daily. She has kids in college with no financial aid, not even a tuition write of on taxes because she is "wealthy."

She pays her staff well. Sometimes I sub for her employees. In addition she support friends and neighbors in need.

I respectfully submit that she pays more than her "fair share."

People benefiting from the sweat of her brow, if I had to guess, pay no where near the taxes she does.

She sounds like a good person - old and burned out

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but I doubt she is in the 1%, top 10% probably. The top 1% make extraordinary amounts of money and can get away with a great deal. People like your sister cannot.

So why the Fox News outcry about the fact - that they pay more in taxes?

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Fact: They earn the most, so paying their fair share of taxes (which is usually less of a percentage of income than us anyway) should ALSO be considered fair, no?

How many times have we heard Fox et al bemoan the fact that most of the taxes are paid by the wealthy? Duh, most of the money is earned by them too, and they rarely if ever pay the percentage of income that we do thanks to loopholes, lawyers, and accountants to do their bidding.

So how about those percentages then?

What democrats mean by fair share. They mean your share, not - theirs. Fair share to them simply means more.

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No matter how high the tax rate is on people with a given income, you can always raise the tax rate further by saying that they are still not paying their “fair share.”

They never tell you how much they need, or how short the government is of some revenue goal. Their goal is always "more."

What politicians are interested in is what they can get the public to believe in the present and to vote on in the future. Plans to “soak the rich,” who are not paying their “fair share,” have worked politically, time and time again.

I want my money back from infaltion through deficit spending that. - A national sales tax would be the most fair.

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It doesn’t punish saving and everyone pays the same rate, but that would therefore place power into the hands of the people. This is why it will never happen. Politicians will never relinquish power. "Fair share" is a rallying cry.

Fair enough, but what do you suggest? - sm

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I get that you're against trickle down and I have no desire to convince you otherwise. Given that the facts show the rich got richer under Obama, what would your solution be? I realize it's not exactly fair to paint Obama as a poster child for liberal policies. But it's pretty clear that his election didn't help income inequality issues.

Assuming Democrats recapture the presidency and/or Congress sometime soon what would you have them do differently?

I'm not all that interested in why the stimulus and Obamacare didn't have the desired effect. I'm more curious about other liberal suggestions.

The link below is to a Mother Jones article from December 2016.

It's just to make Trump look like a meanie - and hates people. Like that Meals on Wheels

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story last week.

Meals on Wheels is not a function of the federal government. Only 3% of their funding comes from the govt. My boss is on the local board for this program. They get most, if not all their money locally, and it is not means tested. He says that if someone requests it, they get it.

How far will the left actually go to get Trump out of - White House? I don't think a

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president has ever been in more peril than the current one. Maybe Lincoln.

There is no downtime to the drama. If you ever want to know how they operate, watch the House of Cards.

And not Hillary is back stirring the pot. The other day a guy drove right up to the White House and said he had a bomb.

Remember when Obama suspended the debt ceiling until it was no longer Obama’s? Now we are left with that to face, along with all the other problems.

I guess in this world of constant noise on TV, - noise addicts like Trump bashing 24/7.

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Silent contemplation no longer works. Putting politics aside I agree we are living in dangerous times.

We are being led by people who say things like "if we send too many - people to Guam the island might tip over"

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Dem. Hank Johnson. Maxine Waters signed off on his plan, Nancy Pelosi endorsed it.

Who needs global warming fear when we have people like this?

I still don't see any outrage - Resist Trump

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about Trump spending all this taxpayer money. I remember very well how many complaints there were about Obama taking vacations. Trump is outdoing him by a long shot. Is this okay now? It also cost half a million a day because Melania wants to stay in NY. Millions more for the Trump children flying all over the globe doing Trump company business.

And Ivanka being in high level White House meetings - Sm

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Does trump think he is going to will Ivanka the seat if he simply doesn't want to play president anymore.

He probably does think he can do that. - He really doesn't

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know much about how things work in government.

How is block grants cutting Medicaid? Maybe this dem speak - as slowing down the rate of growth

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becomes a "cut" in their dictionary.

Oh speaking of Florida, it's the highest state in Medicaid fraud.

It's interesting. Medicaid pays about $0.17 per dollar of cost, - the other patients pay the remaining

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$0.83 plus their own charges, but G-d help you if a Medicaid or no-pay patient doesn’t get EXACTLY what a paying patient gets - you have committed multiple Federal felonies AND medical malpractice to boot.

So, hospitals and other providers are at war with their states and Congress to get more out of Medicaid, because they have to deliver more.

Bottom line is, if people who pay $0.17/$!.00 of cost, or who pay nothing, are to get the same package of services that people who pay for their care get, by law and by custom, then the system is going to be nationalized or it is going to collapse.

This from a relative of mine who trained in a hospital before Medicaid. He trained in a hospital for the poor. They had X amount to use and when it was gone, it was gone. But now there is tons of Medicaid cash to get, so it has become political.

I have a retired doc in my family (30+ years) and - he said that if they speak out for repeal of Obama

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they'll suffer consequences, and be aware that such an institution dismissal isn't the only punishment available.

This is true in just about every aspect of society today.

Out to pasture? Not familiar with the new ways of doing things. - nm

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nm

Doctors used to have a sliding scale for ability to pay, - but the feds got rid of that with the

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advent of Medicaid.

And you could exchange a chicken for a home visit - Good old days -nm

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I acdtually remember the doctor coming to our house. - That was back in the 60s before the

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so called "Great Society"

The majority of people newly covered under Obamacare - received that coverage only because

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the Federal government put more money into Medicaid to expand the number who could be covered. Where did that money come from? Some of it came from Medicare.

Somewhere in the fine print of the ACA is a provision that eventually cuts back the amount of funding the Feds were going to supply, leaving the states holding the bag for the vanishing Federal monies - that’s usually the way the Federal government works - Republicans should just say they’re going to let those ACA Medicaid provisions in place, including the already scheduled Federal cutbacks, and let those states which thought they were getting away with something by shifting some of the medical burden on to the Feds deal with what was going to happen to them anyway.....

Since you brought up Christians principles... - "A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

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Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” Matthew 7:18-19

Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act (ACA), is truly the fruit of a “bad tree.” The roots of this tree are decades old and include moral relativism and socialism with all their offshoots. Obamacare incorporates and perpetuates many of these offshoots thereby sustaining a twofold crisis in healthcare: ethical and economic.

The ethical crisis is a direct, albeit largely unrecognized result of the sexual revolution of the 1960’s and its fruits, particularly the two Supreme Court decisions: Griswold v. Connecticut legalizing contraception (1965) and Roe v. Wade legalizing abortion (1973). Contraception and abortion are the antithesis of healthcare and undermine the very nature of the medical profession. Fifty years later contraception and abortion are fully integrated into the ACA and widely accepted as fundamental to “reproductive rights” of women. This is an ethical disaster for those who are opposed in conscience to the ACA’s Health and Human Service’s regulations regarding contraception and abortion. If they refuse to comply they face ruinous financial penalties and furthermore are denied their religious liberty.

With the introduction of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965 the seeds of the economic crisis were planted. This “well intentioned” but ill-fated legislation led to government financing and regulation of the medical care of the elderly and poor.

The original 1965 projection for the cost of Medicare in 1990 was $12 billion dollars. The actual cost was $98 billion. Similar erroneous predictions have plagued Medicaid as well. Over the ensuing fifty years we have witnessed the incremental development of a socialized system of medical care culminating in Obamacare, at an annual cost to the federal government of over $1 trillion dollars!

In an effort to rein in these unsustainable expenses in the face of an $18 trillion dollar federal deficit, the ACA has spawned thousands of pages of regulations so that government now dictates how you purchase health insurance and what it must include, how much it costs, and how doctors, hospitals and insurers must organize themselves to deliver care and be paid. Physicians are completely frustrated with financial, regulatory and bureaucratic intrusions that dictate every aspect of the delivery of healthcare, threatening the very foundation of medicine, the doctor-patient relationship.

Seven years after its implementation, Obamacare has proven to be neither affordable nor economically sustainable. While Americans were promised universal access to affordable coverage with average family insurance premiums reduced by as much as $2,500, in reality, family premiums have risen on average 25% and by as much as 40 % in certain government sponsored exchanges. This is in spite of billions of dollars in government subsidies.

The ACA was also going to “bend the cost curve” of rising healthcare costs downward, making it less expensive, but in its second full year of operation the healthcare inflation rate was rising. And remember the promise that, “if you like your doctors and current insurance plan you can keep them,” – not true. Millions lost their employer sponsored coverage and were forced into government exchanges or Medicaid where they were not able to keep their doctors, as insurers created limited networks of providers to offset the increased costs of doing business in Obamacare.

While it is true that the number of uninsured Americans has decreased, the dissatisfaction with the ACA among patients, physicians, hospitals and insurers continues to rise. This is due in large part to rising costs with higher premiums and deductibles, diminishing choices and the oppressive burden of government regulations driving physicians, insurers and even some hospitals out of business or into large conglomerates who place monetary concerns and market share above the interest of individual patient care. Everyone agrees, on both sides of the aisle, that this is an unsustainable economic crisis. The disagreement arises when considering a solution.

The ACA was the solution proposed by the Obama administration and its supporters. As predicted however, it has gravely exacerbated the ethical crisis and to date has done nothing to resolve the economic one. It is incompatible with a vision of healthcare that supports life, individual freedom and personal responsibility inherent in the American way of life. It is fundamentally flawed. It is more bad fruit from the same bad tree and clearly must be repealed.

All agree that healthcare is desperately in need of reform and yet we all must also acknowledge the challenge of replacing the ACA with alternative policies which ensure broad access to affordable insurance coverage. This coverage must protect the right of all Americans to receive the medical care they choose, from the doctors and hospitals they want, in harmony with their religious and moral convictions.

Over a decade ago, the Catholic Medical Association addressed the ongoing crisis in healthcare in a document entitled, Healthcare in America : A Catholic Proposal for Renewal. It outlines the challenges we face in healthcare today, both ethical and economic, and proposes recommendations for reform based upon the Church’s moral and social teaching.

The foundation of any Catholic proposal for reform must first be the recognition of the sanctity of life from conception to natural death and God’s design for marriage and the family. Catholic social teaching then provides a framework with guidelines for considering how social institutions can be structured and public policies developed that order the delivery of healthcare to the common good of one and all.

The following principles are generally agreed upon and underlie many of the current proposals for reforming healthcare in the wake of repealing the ACA.
1.Individuals and families should control financing their healthcare and medical decisions, not the government, by means of individually owned insurance, not bound to employment
2.Everyone should have access to affordable health insurance, including those with pre-existing conditions, that meets their individual health care needs and is in harmony with their moral convictions
3.Subsidies in the form of tax credits should be used to offset the tax advantage received by those with employer sponsored health insurance over those with individual policies and to support those who are economically disadvantaged and cannot afford basic insurance.
4.State and federal legislation should support the development of more insurance options, including true catastrophic plans with health savings accounts used for ordinary care, and available in a market place designed to promote true competition, with appropriate consumer protections
5.People should be free to choose their own physicians and hospitals which also promotes healthy competition, innovation for better outcomes and medical services oriented to enhancing patient satisfaction
6.Patients and insurers must be free to purchase and provide insurance coverage, while all providers including physicians, allied healthcare professionals, and hospitals must be free to practice, with comprehensive protection of conscience, including the legal recourse to seek a remedy if this freedom is ever denied.
7.The dysfunctional system of medical malpractice must be reformed
8.Government regulations regarding the payment for healthcare must be revised to allow for price transparency for all medical interventions so that informed patients, as consumers of care, can be involved in the determination of value of their medical services based on cost and quality.
9.Due to the impending bankruptcy of the major government financed healthcare programs (Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP) gradual reform is necessary to transition these programs to the premium support / defined contribution model of support without compromising the care of those currently participating in them.
10.While advances in health information technology hold promise for better coordination of care, patient privacy and confidentiality must be ensured to avoid an erosion of trust essential to the doctor-patient relationship

Although not an exhaustive list, these principles underlie many of the current, ethically and economically sound policy proposals shaping legislation for consideration in this Congress to replace the ACA.

Over the next few months we can expect a flood of dire predictions related to current plans to repeal and replace Obamacare. Unfortunately, most will be politically motivated and patently false. It is not easy to forget the deception of those who assured us we would love the ACA if only it was passed, and then everyone would see the wonderful benefits it provides.

If the results of the recent election are any indication of what many Americans think of Obamacare, they understand it is the fruit of a bad tree and the time has come to cut it down. Together, prayerfully, patiently and diligently, we must plant the seeds of a good tree that will bear good fruit and lead to reform restoring the moral foundation and economic integrity necessary to rebuild a “culture of life” in the medical profession, a culture where the patient and patient care are once again at the heart of our healthcare delivery system.

No advanced country in the world - Resist Trump

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has a profit-driven, private insurance system that works to cover everyone. If we go back to that then very few of the old and sick will be able to afford any insurance at all. Competition in the insurance industry has never lowered rates enough to cover everyone.

Before Medicaid the "poor" were treated by charity, churches, or - doctors donating their time for free.

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Insurance was only for hospitalization, so people didn't run to the doctor's office for every little thing. Doctors used to be free to devise his own fee. That's free market competition, which is a good thing because you shop around.

As far as "profit driven" insurance, before Obamacare I could customize my insurance to what I needed. Now all insurance has to cover whatever the feds mandate. Competition always lowered rates. It's called the free market.

Is socialist health care better?

And insurance was not out of control then either - Sm

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http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/compensation-issues/anthem-ceo-s-pay-rose-to-17-1m-in-2016.html

Capitalism at its finest. This is eating up your job too. Go ahead, keep supporting it. Smh

Ask anyone in Canada, England, etc. - Resist Trump

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whether they would trade their system for ours. Let me know the answer.

The ACA definitely has flaws and forces coverage of things it should not; this needs to be changed but as far as the free market lowering rates - do you know how much insurance premiums were going up before he ACA?

ACA tree was poisoned with Republican pesticides - Nm

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Nm

Very true. I actually read an article the other - day where a lady was

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thanking Trump because of her lowered rate for insurance. LOL Trump supporters don't even know Trump hasn't even gotten their plan through and she benefited from the ACA.

Why is everyone deflecting from the original - post?

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I read an article the other day that said at this rate, Trump will be will over a billion dollars in security for his Florida trips in four years. Where is the outrage from the right?????? Why are we paying for security for his children to be doing company business?????? Before you cry they have to have security, they don't. Adult children can wave the security. If they want it, they should pay for it since they are performing company business.

Can we get back to the original question?????

Original contained tangents - But you are right-sm

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IMO, the right only used that criticism as a deflection with Obama cuz they could not keep up mentally.

Now, they are in the sweet spot with this one. He does it just the way they think... childish, vacations, petulant, mini-tweets about voluminous subjects. He APPEALS to them.

He's donating his salary to charity. I love this guy. - Who came up with these arbitrary numbers

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for vacations? Three million? Really. I agree with the poster who said they reject the premise.

Here's some number for you...

Taxpayers spent 1.4 billion on Obama in one year, everything from staffing, housing, flying and entertaining President Obama and his family.

And once he even flew his dog somewhere.

In comparison, British taxpayers spent just $57.8 million on the royal family.

To whom...when...and ya sure - Nm

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X

He has not donated any of his salary to charity - hawkmt

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http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-pledging-donate-salary-trump-declines-release-proof-n732466

Yes, he's donating his salary - to charity

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At the end of the year.... or so he says...AND he'll take a whopping tax deduction on it too, and earn interest all year long. What a con.

Your figure is incorrect - Resist Trump

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The total for Obama vacations was 97 million for 8 years. I'm not sure what else you are including in your total but I'm sure Trump has those same expenses as well as his vacations.

What he said - old and burned out

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was that he was not going to take a salary. When he takes it and then donates it, he gets a huge tax deduction thus depriving the treasury of even more money.

The Bible is an instruction manual for individuals, not - polticians or govts. They do things for POWER.

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Every issue and how to deal with it is covered in the Bible, including how to feed the poor, tithing, etc.

Facebook didn't pay any federal or state income taxes and received a - hefty tax refund. Where was the liberal

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outrage of big business profiting and not paying their "fair share?"

$1 Billion in PROFIT in 2012 Paying $0 (ZERO) income tax RECEIVING $429 MILLION in REFUNDS!!!!

This is a left wing company that promotes left wing ideals and donates to Democrats.

Funny how that works. No outrage.

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