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Nikki Haley, shootings and confederate flag


Posted: Jun 19, 2015

This morning, Haley appeared on CBS Morning News and was asked if it is finally time for the state to stop adorning government buildings with the Confederate Flag. Haley dodged the question, refusing to give her personal opinion, and seemed to imply that a debate over the flag would be too traumatizing for her state: HOST: There are also calls today that you have to take the Confederate flag down from the state capitol. How do you address those calls? HALEY: I think that...at a time like this, you have to look back at what we've done. Fifteen years ago the General Assembly at the time they had a conversation. The Republicans and Democrats and everybody came together on a consensus to bring the Confederate flag down off of the dome. And they put it on a monument out in front. I think that conversation will probably come back up again. And you what we hope that we do things the way South Carolinians do. Which is have the conversation, allow some thoughtful words to be exchanged, be kind about it. Come together on what we're trying to achieve and how we're trying to do it. I think the state will start talking about that again. We'll see where it goes. What I will tell you right now, is while a lot of issues will come up, my job as governor is to bring everybody back together again. [...] HOST: But what's your position on the issue? HALEY:You know, right now, to start having policy conversations with the people of South Carolina, I understand that's what ya'll want, my job is to heal the people of this state. We had a 26 year-old that just graduated college. We had anywhere from a 26 year-old to an 87 year-old grandmother. You had a track coach.You had a librarian. This is very real to us. […] There will be policy discussions and you will hear my come out and talk about it.But right now, I'm not doing that to the people of my state. Haley did however appear to be willing to make one policy decision – calling on the suspect charged in the shooting to be executed. The governor's lack of leadership is in stark contrast to one state west – Georgia. There, Governor Zell Miller (D) in 1992 called for changing the Georgia flag so it no longer reflected the Confederate symbol. “The Georgia flag is a last remaining vestige of days that are not only gone but also days that we have no right to be proud of,” he said at the time. “We need to lay the days of segregation to rest, to let bygones be bygones and rest our souls. We need to do what is right.” Although the flag was not changed until 2001, Miller's call 23 years ago shows that a governor even in a deep southern state can lead on the issue if they choose to. Haley's avoidance of the issue of racism altogether eludes the elephant in the room. Compare her words to those of the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., who spoke after the 1963 Birmingham church bombing: And yet they died nobly. They are the martyred heroines of a holy crusade for freedom and human dignity. And so this afternoon in a real sense they have something to say to each of us in their death. They have something to say to every minister of the gospel who has remained silent behind the safe security of stained-glass windows. They have something to say to every politician [Audience:] (Yeah) who has fed his constituents with the stale bread of hatred and the spoiled meat of racism. They have something to say to a federal government that has compromised with the undemocratic practices of southern Dixiecrats (Yeah) and the blatant hypocrisy of right-wing northern Republicans. (Speak) They have something to say to every Negro (Yeah) who has passively accepted the evil system of segregation and who has stood on the sidelines in a mighty struggle for justice. They say to each of us, black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution. They say to us that we must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American dream. What Haley does not seem to be conceding is that to heal, you must first admit to your problem. Failing to address the legacy of racism in South Carolina will only conceal a wound, not ameliorate it. This man calls her out absolutely perfectly. The issue with the confederate flag, I cannot fathom. Did the South Carolina capitol really not lower the confederate flag to half-mast? One of their own state legislators was killed, the other flags were lowered, but not the confederate flag? I keep thinking this has to be a hoax, but have been assured on questioning this (several times) that indeed it was not lowered. http://www.alternet.org/south-carolina-governor-gets-called-out-cowardly-confederate-flag-defense ;

Pres. Obama says Confederate flag - belongs in a museum-that works

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I would not deny the history that the Confederate flag represents, but there is no role for it in the future of a state in The United States of America.

Displaying a Confederate flag is just as repulsive - as displaying a Nazi swastika.

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Neither one belongs in the United States of America.

Dukes of Hazzard - Confused

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I grew up watching the car stunts of The General Lee on The Dukes of Hazzard with my brother. Seeing the car (with the flag displayed on the top) brought back good memories--we loved the car chases and smash ups. I have to say I never realized the General Lee with flag paint job was a symbol of the confederacy and racism. I did not understand what racism was back then.

Now, when I think about it--wasn't David Duke the head of the KKK? The brothers were the Duke boys and their sister was Daisy Duke. Was all this some sort of subliminal message to kids growing up--sort of like what the Nazis did to the youth of Germany?

I personally have never been impressed with symbols. I suppose the political candidates will be shining up their flag pins again and attacking each other on the basis of who is displaying them. I have never understood why we should pledge allegiance to the flag. I have placed my allegiance with this country, not a piece of cloth.

That said, seeing how easily I, as a young child, could be accepting of the southern symbol of racism is very scary to me now.
Wondered when this would come up - sm
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The Dukes of Hazzard movie addressed the Confederate flag issue (if you can stomach the movie), but I did. As you said, "The Dukes" were fun, and really, to me, an extension of good versus evil in the everyday life of the Dukes. This program incorporated some of the mistakes of life. The "boys" were on probation/parole? Uncle Jesse and his moonshine. But, in the end, the real criminals, the worst, were batted down.

As to the name "Duke," I am hoping that it is just a common southern name. Really hoping that is not a subliminal message issue, and hadn't thought of that, until reading your comment. Uggh. Yes, my kids love the Dukes show for all of your aforementioned fun, crashes, driving, fun story, and, yes, the General Lee needs a paint job, at least the roof.
All I ever saw on Dukes of Hazzard were dumb - drunks driving dangerously.
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They were rarely drunk--they drove crazy - for fun
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xx
So I guess they were just dumb to begin with, - and didnt need alcohol to enhance it?
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I think it belongs in a dumpster, not a museum. - - nm - Chemtrail

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We never destroy history, we learn from history - and may prevent it from happening again

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xx
Okay, then locked away in the bowels of the - museum. It doesnt merit display.
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.

Perhaps you people should educate yourselves on the - Confederate flag - (sm)

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12 important facts you should know about the flag.

Link
I thought the same thing, but figured it wasn't going to - matter posting here. I'm from Virginia,
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and we learned about the Confederate Flag in elementary school. Of course, that was in the 60s.
You're right about probably not mattering. Liberals - hate FACTS. (sm)
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Closed minds.
Fritz Hollings, a Democrat, was instrumental in - bringing the Confederate flag
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back.
Democrats make mistakes too, not just Repubs. - Bringing that evil symbol back was a mistake.
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XXX
Educated, really? That link just provides - a "historical" disclaimer basically
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By all means, use the flag in reenactments, which are so popular with historians and residents of areas important in the civil war. You know, the ones where the South, the ones who wanted to keep slavery, the Confederacy, that is, actually lost? No problems with history.

It doesn't matter what it is SUPPOSED to mean, these redneck jerks have taken it over and tell me you don't know what THEY mean when you see it on their license plates, their tee shirts, their whatever.

It means "I wish the Civil War never happened and I wish black people were still slaves," that's what it means when I see it and it does not speak highly of those who fly it or wear it.

Tell me that's not what it evokes to everyone who sees it? It needs to go go go, the sooner the better.
Only in the mind of a hater, hun, only in the mind of a hater. - Callie
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nm
Oh, you mean a hater and a killer - like Dylann Roof?
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Because that is the kind of person that just loves that flag, along with other symbols of racism from other countries. He apparently went on a road trip to all the Confederate hot spots with photos (see link).

There is no way to redeem that confederate flag from its political symbolism of racism and prejudice, and all that rhetoric about Southern heritage is just plain weak tea and euphemism.

It needs to go.
If the people of South Carolina want it to stay, then it needs to stay - Mrs. Tingles - sm
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Everyone else who does not live in SC needs to mind their own business.

To have other people determine whether a flag from a state they don't live in gets removed would be like having atheists decide that nobody can wear or display a cross.
Not even remotely-- - sm
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For one, your comparison is symbolism displayed in a state government center versus individuals wearing adornment of their own personal choice (religious).

I will not get lost in the tangent of wearing crosses or not.

Obviously people in other states do not "decide" what happens in other states, they encourage by popular sentiment as to the morality of the other state's actions.

For instance, I do not think any individual of another state would have a legal action against the State of South Carolina to remove the flag.

However, I think people of all of the United States can be embarrassed and feel damaged by the actions of another state, whereby pressuring the public sentiment to change that action.

The flag needs to be removed, should have already been removed and, my bet is, WILL be removed.
The "State Sovereignty Singers" forgot gay marriage & abortion are also state choice;) - Julia Sugarbaker
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But we'll be happy to politely remind them of the words to that song when those issues are brought up again;)

PS - And you're right - apparently they also already forgot what happened when Indiana passed first-draft Religious Freedom Law ;)
Hey, looks like it is making progress TODAY - Nikki Haley calling for its removal?
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Now to work on the other southern states with offensive symbols in flags and Mississippi with the Confederate flag as a part of their flag.
Yeah! - Blanche
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And if South Carolina wanted to keep slaves, they should have been allowed to do that, too!

/sarcasm
Let the South cecede, then. The majority of - the US thinks that flag is a disgrace.
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Many of my neighbors' ancestors fought and died (sm) - Callie
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in the Civil War. They are proud of their heritage, as they should be. The flag they fly in S.C. is none of your business.
Same here. We were taught the Civil War happened because - of 2 parties fighting over central power
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with the South not wanting to be tethered politically to people it felt it had no common values (sound familiar)

The war for southern independence is what my relatives called it. It wasn't just about slavery.
Sounds eerily familiar to today but over values systems. - nm
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nm
As long as the backwards South is part of the - US, then yes - its everyones business.
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nm
Yes, many/most individuals displaying the - Confederate flag are haters and racists
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and when confronted, they run back to "the historical meaning," which is questionable at best, depending on when they were cornered for a definition... in other words, how PC they were going to be with their answer.

The point is that the RIGHT NOW is that it is offensive to MANY and divisive (just like the Civil War) to MANY and it does not belong as a government-supported symbol and reassurance to the individuals displaying it.
Wrong - sm
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Since you don't know everyone who has one of these flags.

It is a PART of HISTORY. I know people who have one, they are NOT haters. They have one that was passed down through generations who WERE NOT slave owners.

I agree with the posters and the person that said if they are not in the state where it hangs then it's not their place to decide whether it hangs or not and I agree with the person in the article who said if someone from another state tried to tell me what to do with our flag I'd tell them what to do with the pole.
Are my far-right southern neighbors completely unaware they lost the civil war for self-sovereignty? - Julia Sugarbaker
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Which was my point in the scenario example I gave in that badly-worded comment below (now ironically reported and removed for being offensive lol).

I was TRYING to illustrate, however badly, using absurd example scenario (which I admitted was absurd within the comment itself, thinking that was enough to prove it was not personally believed) that there ARE some things done by states that other states might find so offensive they'd warrant state or federal intervention.
Evidently I made my point a little too well because it was reported/removed for being offensive;)

Additionally, I also find it interesting the same people claiming "hands off what happens in our state" are also the same people claiming they get to have a say on abortion and gay marriage laws in other states.

Thus, the hypocrisy/double-standard strikes again, twice in one day:)
And for the record, though the state government and private offices CAN do whatever they please?

Just like with Indiana "Religious Freedom Law", if the other states find a state is doing something we consider either state government overreach or morally reprehensible or unreasonable, the other states can and will vote to ensure less federal tax money is appropriated, and private business can stop all further commerce with them - it worked quite well already in Indiana:)

Oh, and label my next point hypocrisy/double-standard x3 - because if "mind your own business" is the southern state far-right philosophy, then I REALLY don't understand how they justify being so gung ho to go to war in other countries

Oh but wait, there's more - make this hypocrisy/double-standard x4 - I don't believe all these commenters are from South Carolina themselves and therefore have about as much right as I do to talk about what goes on in other states, according to their own philosophy;)

PS - I still have not reported anyone for being offensive or any other reason :)
It doesn't matter who displays that flag, when it - screams intolerance and backwardness.
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xxx
Thank you for the enlightenment. - A True Southern Belle
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Colonel West never disappoints!!
Perhaps "you people" could educate yourselves that the swastika was Indian/Asian for good - fortune but that's NOT what it means now/JS
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We don't display either because BOTH the confederate flag AND the swastika NOW represent horrific human rights violations, despite their (debatable) original historic intent. Further, perhaps the "real southern belle" above would like to further educate herself on the history of REAL "southern belles"?

No respectable southern belle would have EVER proudly and publicly displayed any item that was currently considered socially offensive, unpopular or inhospitable - doing so was considered evidence of "poor breeding and disagreeable temperament", poor social training, bad manners and having poor taste. (They only displayed those flags when doing so was socially viewed favorably and patriotic.)

They also tended to avoid political discussion altogether because it was considered socially rude. In fact, their social role was primarily being grand hostess of southern hospitality, whose primary job was distraction from tension-producing discussion at social gatherings, and to ensure guests had enjoyable and peaceful stays in their homes. (In fact, my grandmother had a strict rule never to discuss politics, religion or sex at casual social encounters or w/guests in her home.)

I have never claimed to be a southern belle (nor do I aspire to be), so on the flag issue, I don't believe in erasing our own history and culture, especially just so we don't have to look at it anymore. My vote is for displaying it in a museum so our grandchildren HAVE to look at it, so they can learn what it represents NOW, so they can learn what behavior NOT to repeat from our own history, as well as remind us what can happen when there is too much division in this country and too much racial hatred.
It is only offensive to those who want it to be - Mrs. Tingles
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People who want it to represent hate are in fact the haters themselves. When I see the confederate flag I do not think of all the vile things you point out. I think of the history of our country, I think about the civil war.

The swastika is entirely different. That goes with pure hate and killing of innocent people. People who held the confederate flag did not comit mass murder like the Nazi's did and they did not create the flag to symbolize their hate towards a religious group or race like the Nazi's did.

So you have one bad person who murdered people in a church for no reason. If he had a cross would you also say the cross and anyone who owns a cross is evil? In fact I know of cases where people kill "in the name of Christ". Would you then say Christ is responsible for the murders? No, of course not.

You cannot brand a flag, cross or whatever other symbol hateful just because one person committed a horrendous crime and had one. Comparing it to the swastika is apples to oranges.

Thank you Colonel West for letting us know the history.
Au contraire. From the Holocaust Encyclopedia (written by US Holocaust Memorial Museum historians) - Julia Sugarbaker
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...in other words, Jews themselves wrote or approved the first half of my first sentence, as I obtained the info via their link:

Even when Germany/the Nazis used the swastika, the intent was to display Aryan/German pride, just like the confederate flag's intent was Southern pride.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

Whatever the (debated) original intents of both were, that is NOT what either symbol or flag are remembered for NOW.

So since neither flag LITERALLY meant subjugating entire races into slavery, hating them and murdering them, does that make us both haters because we both (including you, by your own words) NOW associate either one or both of these symbols with horrific human rights violations?

Of course not - it means we are aware of the horrific human rights violations that were carried hand-in-hand with that "national pride" symbol, and we do not want to hurt and offend the rest of the human race (to include groups that exist outside of our own little world of race and religious) by displaying them in our government institutions, private businesses, homes and cars.
yawnnnnnn - au conraire yourself
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It's nobody's business who doesn't live in that state to determine what happens in another state.

The flag has a history, and not everyone who owned a confederate flag butchered a bunch of people.

Bad people do bad things. Thank goodness I didn't throw away my cross when people killed other people and said it was in the name of Christ.
Unlike Obama who refers to the Crusades when he - wants to bash Christians.
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nm
You're just proving that the US view of the - south being ill-informed is true.
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Obviously, my badly-worded comment previously located here (ironically removed for being offensive) - WAS misunderstood~Julia Sugarbaker
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For the record, I do NOT really think the Tea Party ARE Nazis, but I DO think they have a double-standard.

Because my point in that example (I admitted was absurd within the comment itself, thinking that'd be enough to prove I didn't personally really believe Tea Partiers WERE Nazis) was what if another state put up a flag with something THEY considered offensive and hung it from their state offices - should people in other states have some say about it?

Apparently the answer is "yes" lol

(For the record, I have still have not reported anyone.)

Perhaps Mrs. Tingles has a point - "offensive is only offensive to those who wish it to be." I would only add that I think we've successfully proven tonight that those Tea Partiers singing that "state sovereignty" song tend to also sing a double-standard exemption for themselves;)
Can I have a little dressing for this word salad? - Thanks
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nm
"Slave-flag" defenders are like trying to talk - to a very thick brick wall.
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..
Apples to Oranges - Mrs. Tingles
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you are talking about the swastika. Totally different than the confederate flag.

If I want to read about the holocaust I'll read about it.
Hardly. And far too many people don't even - believed the Holocaust really happened.
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A sad and ultimately destructive way to be.
This article was created by Paul Clark and Tanya Grimsley (NOT ALLEN WEST) - If you are thanking on article sake
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That--was in the article.
No, it's offensive to most educated and forward- - thinking people.
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x
"You people" aren't the ones unedcuated - Sure you have a mirror; use it.
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Spare us your never ending racism...have a nice day.
Excellent post - thanks for posting this - Mrs. Tingles
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I did not know this about the flag. Glad Colonel West explained it. I have more respect for the flag knowing it's history.

People will abuse anything to serve a purpose they want, but it is never the true representation of its original intent, whether it be the confederate flag, swastika, democrat party, etc.
After recent events, a person would be a fool - to continue to display the Union Jack(ed up) flag.
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nmsg
Here's some information on the Confederate - Flag
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After the surrender in 1865, Confederate flags were folded and put away. They were most likely to be spotted at memorials or cemeteries. Even after the hopeful decade of Reconstruction gave way to the violent repression of Redemption, open displays of the flag remained rare. There was no need for a banner to signal defiance; Jim Crow reigned unchallenged.

The flag slowly crept back into public life over the ensuing decades, saluted at veterans’ reunions, promoted by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, even carried into battle by units from the South. By the mid-twentieth century, the flags were also waved by football fans, and sold to tourists.

But as a political symbol, the flag was revived when northern Democrats began to press for an end to the South’s system of racial oppression. In 1948, the Dixiecrats revolted against President Harry Truman—who had desegregated the armed forces and supported anti-lynching bills. The movement began in Mississippi in February of 1948, with thousands of activists “shouting rebel yells and waving the Confederate flag,” as the Associated Press reported at the time. Some actually removed old, mothballed flags from the trunks where they had until then been gathering dust.

At the Democratic convention that July, nine southern states backed Georgia’s Senator Richard Russell over Truman, parading around the floor behind a waving Confederate flag to the strains of Dixie. The Dixiecrats reconvened in Birmingham, nominating South Carolina Governor Strom Thurmond for the presidency. Sales of Confederate flags, long moribund, exploded. Stores could not keep them in stock. The battle flag became the symbol of segregation.

The flag soon spread. It fluttered from the radio antennas of cars and motorcycles, festooned towels and trinkets, and was exhibited on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Some displayed it as a curiosity, a general symbol of rebellion against authority, or an emblem of regional pride. The United Daughters of the Confederacy were split on how to respond, some pleased to see young people showing interest, others calling the proliferation of flags a “desecration.” Newspapers tried to explain the craze, citing explanations from football fans to historically themed balls.


Advertisement



The black press did not find the phenomena quite so baffling. “In a large measure,” wrote the Chicago Defender in 1951, “the rebel craze is an ugly reaction to the remarkable progress of our group.” That was true in the North, as well as the South.

Over the next two decades, the flag was waved at Klan rallies, at White Citizens’ Council meetings, and by those committing horrifying acts of violence. And despite the growing range of its meanings in pop culture, as a political symbol, it offered little ambiguity.

Georgia inserted the battle flag into its state flag in 1956. Two years later, South Carolina made it a crime to desecrate the Confederate flag. And then, on the centennial of the day South Carolina opened fire on Fort Sumter came in 1961, it hoisted the battle flag above its Capitol.

It was a symbol of heritage—but that heritage was hateful. Two state delegations, in Charleston to mark that 1961 centennial, found themselves barred from the hotel where the ceremony was to take place because they included black members. President Kennedy had to issue an executive order moving the commemoration to the Charleston Navy Base. And when the centennial ended, the flag stayed, proclaiming that South Carolina might have lost the war, but that it was determined not to surrender its opposition to racial equality.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/why-is-the-flag-still-there/396431/
"You people?" - What about YOU people?
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Southerners. Oy.

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Flag-pin Wearin, Pistol PackinMay 12, 2011
I just don't get it.  The folks who cherish their fabric flags and lapel pins, bedazzled redwhiteandblue T-shirts and generic soldiers.  Yet they disdain the elderly, foreigners, the poor and mothers of lost soldiers (Cindy S).  America is people, not symbols.   ...

Leftists Burning The American Flag At Apr 08, 2010
  see link ...

Arabs Fly Nazi Flag Next To A Mosque. (sm)May 20, 2013
Link ...

Prior Posts Regarding Christian Flag And Jul 07, 2015
Response was that they had never heard of a "Christian" flag...well, here it is, raising up its ugly head. ...

TOP GOVT. INSIDER: OBL Died In '01, 09/11 Was A False FlagMay 06, 2011
  Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack Paul Joseph WatsonInfowars.comMay 4, 2011 Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still wo ...

Islam Plants Flag Of Victory At Ground ZeroAug 04, 2010
The world should know that the ‘Cordoba Initiative,’ the New York City based organization desiring to construct a massive Islamic house of prayer at ‘Ground Zero,’ has posted on its website, a peculiar and disingenuous statement indicating the desire to bring back the atmosphere of, “interfaith tolerance and respect that we have longed for since Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in harmony and prosperity eight hundred years ago.” I point ...

Beware! Trump Comes Wrapped In The Flag Of Fascism.Jun 11, 2016
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And So It Begins. ISIS Flag Among Refugees In GermanySep 14, 2015
Posted on ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2015‎ ‎8‎:‎46‎:‎06‎ ‎AM by Enlightened1 The Syrian operative claimed more than 4,000 ISIS gunmen had been smuggled into western nations – hidden amongst innocent refugees. The ISIS smuggler, revealed the ongoing clandestine operation is a complete success. Islamic State is believed to be actively smuggling deadly gunmen across the sparsely-guarded 565-mile Turkish border and on to richer European nations, he revealed. Well, with this ...

Teacher Deems Studentâs American Flag May 11, 2010
http://www.educationnews.org/educationnewstoday/90900.html ...

Leftist Professor Catches On Fire After Burning U.S FlagJul 28, 2016
rowdier than on previous nights and a U.S. flag was lit on fire — and a protester attempting to dance on the burning flag ended up on fire. The graphic video can be seen below. Police and protesters attempted to treat the injuries and worked together to carry off the burned protester. Breitbart ...

Health Insurers' Fast Food Holdings Raise FlagApr 16, 2010
(CBS)  The investments of large insurers of health, disability and long term care in fast food chains like McDonald's and Pizza Hut have raised the interest of a study in the American Journal of Public Health, reports CBS Radio News' John Hartge. The Harvard Medical School's Dr. Wesley Boyd, an author of the study, finds it ironic that these firms would invest nearly $2 billion in companies that sell food often linked to obesity and cardiovascular disease. "The insurance i ...

Only In S. Carolina. Sheriff Refuses To Fly Flag At Half-staff In Memory Dec 08, 2013
Sheriff cites that Mandela was not an American.  Half-staff is also designated as a respect to the memory of someone who made a profound mark and impact on this world.  It's obvioius the sheriff didn't agree with Mandela's ideals or think they were a good thing because being an American is not a requirement for deserving half-staff respect.   ...

Finally-after 5 Days, The White House Finally Lowered The FlagJul 21, 2015
for the 5 servicemen killed in Chattanooga. Must have been hard for him to order it done. After all, he didn't light up the White House for INDEPENDENCE DAY in red, white, and blue. He only did it for the rainbow coalition.He still hasn't spoken to Kate Steinle's parents, nor has he spoken to any of the parent's of the servicemen killed 5 days ago.  He did it quickly for the theater shooting, Ft. Hood, and other shootings. He was so quick to speak out about Professor G ...