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Local fast food restaurant paying $15.00. Success story

Posted: Oct 30, 2014

There has been a lot of discussion on this board about raising the minimum wage to $15.00 and I have been very vocal about being in favor of this. I have listened to how the prices of everything will go up, they do anyway. Think of gas prices. Just mention the word hurricane or bad weather and even before a hurricane forms they are raising the prices of gas. Just talk about cold weather hitting Florida and orange juice goes through the roof. So they will raise prices regardless. But my main reason for posting this is to give you a success story where I live. Google Moo Cluck Moo and check them out. About 2 years or so ago 2 men started their business and they had an interview on the news about paying their employees, all employees $15.00 an hour to start. Their moto was they did not need to get rich overnight. They wanted loyal employees who would be happy to come to work and give excellent service. They have since opened their second restaurant. And their prices are not through the roof like some people will say. They are competitive in their prices for our area. I have been to their restaurant and I was greeted with a smile, person behind the counter actually seemed to care about making sure to get our order right. Food was good too. At least I knew I was eating hamburger. Not like McDonald's who only uses 4% hamburger in what they call a burger. What the other 96% is I don't know but its not hamburger. Minimum wage has changed now, its not just for kids in high school working a part time job to get pocket change. It's now older people, people raising a family. Its time they change also. I don't shop at Walmart for two main reasons, everything in that store is from China and the way they treat their employees. No respect whatsoever. I don't shop at K-Mart because of how they treated their employees while going through bankrupcy and a lot of people stopped shopping at K-Mart because of that and look where they are. Just about gone. I know one person cannot do much of anything but at least I can say I am trying to promote American made products and fair treatment and wages for everyone. If they can't or won't pay livable wages then when the employees apply for food stamps, welfare or what every they need to apply for it should be charged back to the company they work for. Let them pay for the benefits. I know this a long post and I apoligize so I will shut up now. Just wanted to share a success story of how it can work. ;

MCM isn't Micky D or Burger King. - It's a "boutique" burger restaurant

[ In Reply To ..]
Don't be seduced into making apples-and-oranges comparisons/conclusions just because they happen to sell hamburgers. Moo Cluck Moo isn't really a "fast food" restaurant. It's in the boutique niche.

Second, Moo Cluck Moo would never survive in large areas of urban Detroit at the prices they charge (1/3rd pound burger almost $6.00). They also make a fair percentage of their profit on what they call "craveables", their specialty sandwiches, desert and other items that get right up there in price - over $8 for a chicken salad. Fries? $2.59.

By contrast, a McDonald's combo meal with, say, a Big Mac, fries and drink, is $6.09 (last avg price). Chicken salad at Mickey's $4.91, not $8.

Oh - and by the way. McDonald's serves 100% beef patties. All it would take to instantly bankrupt a $billion business would be to start serving "mystery meat".

The higher wages *are* built into MCM's prices despite the protestations of the OP to the contrary. And that's fine. Keep reading.

As such, it's natural that MCM's owners have targeted specific locations in the Detroit area where the median household income level is two to three times that of Detroit proper (about $30,000). MCM's stores are located in Dearborn Heights ($50,000) and Canton (almost $80,000). Maybe Hollywood will be #3.

The point is, paying $15 an hour to the help is built into this specific business model, and does also probably reflect the owners' philosophy about sharing the profits with the employees, which is fine because it's their decision (not the government's).

But you have to understand that it's all part of THIS PARTICULAR BUSINESS MODEL, and that this business model is nothing like that of the mass-marketing fast food chains. As I've said, just because McDonald's and Moo Cluck Moo both sell hamburgers, you shouldn't be fooled into believing they're the same kind of business because they're not, by a country mile.

Now there's nothing wrong whatsoever with this business model. But there is something wrong with people who invite you to make superficial comparisons and draw erroneous conclusions.

At the end of the day, customers DO PAY for those higher wages (unless the owners are foolishly pouring new money into the business because it isn't generating enough for those wages), and it DOES make sense for the owners to pay higher wages IN THIS BUSINESS MODEL because their customers are willing to pay the higher prices for what they perceive to be a better product.

Now, here's what cracks me up totally. Note that he owners of MCM are NOT paying higher wages because the minimum wage laws require them to! It's build into their business model. They provide what customers perceive to be a superior product for which they will pay more. They pay higher wages because it makes good business sense to do so in this particular business model. This is how the capitalist system and a free labor market are supposed to work, exactly! Not by government mandate, but by the inexorable (and even less forgiving) law of supply and demand.

Thanks for supporting the free market system, OP!! I'm sorry if you didn't intend to do so.

what cracks you up totally? - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
The fact that he is not made to do it or the fact that its built into their business model?

I paid $37.83 cents for 2 customized hamburgers, 1 order of fries, and 2 kiddie meals at Bagger Dave's, another "botique" and their employees make minimum wage. Never again will I go to that restaurant. Their kiddie meal mac and cheese had to have about 1/2 cup of mac and cheese and I paid 4 bucks for that. Now that was worth it.

Where would I rather spend my money. Somewhere where they do whats right now what goes with the flow. Thats where.

Google the article about McDonald's coming - automation ... sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If the article was legit, they are already trialing kiosks where you put in your own orders, we already get our own drinks at some of them, and also are working on a machine to actually make the burgers.

It was probably coming anyway but this $15/hour talk hastened its arrival.

Many will lose their jobs if it works.

I saw it. And - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
As you said yourself they were automating long before the discussion of $15/hr talks. So they are going to do it anyway. Forget about McDonald's. What about the grease monkey working at Belle Tire changing tires or the sales people at JC Penneys or Macys, or the receptionist at the doctors or dentist office making just above minimum wage but still can't afford to pay bills? Or transcriptionists. Raising the minimum wage would give you more money in your check. 15 an hour for what we do is not enough in my opinion, but put me out of work and let me work at Penneys selling clothes and I will be happy as a lark.

Fast food restaurants was just an example because they are the ones that brought the minimum wage issue to my attention.

I don't work for minimum wage. I still make good money in this business, I am averaging $18/hr but I do have grandchildren and as a matter of fact I have children that I need to think about too. Their future and what life is going to be for them. I want better for them. Corporate profits is becoming an epidemic and our government is behind them not us.

People state on this board how we have been taken advantage of I completely agee. Even though I am making good money still, I am not making what I was making 10 years ago. People are complaining they are not even making minimum wage and even with minimum wage they can't make it. That is my point to all of this. We are working and can't afford to live. Then we need to raise our voice to anyone that will listen and keep raising it until it becomes a roar all across the country so we can't be ignored any more.

If you don't want change and don't want to fight for what you believe in and a better life for yourself and children, then stop complaining about it. Accept the scraps they give you and watch them move on up in the world while you live in a cardboard box. Cause they are going to raise prices no matter what. Do they care whether you can afford it or not? No they don't. And eventually none of us are going to afford it.

Two years ago I was paying 99 cents for a pound of ground chuck at the grocery store and now I am paying over 4 dollars a pound. Why? Can't blame it on the raise in minimum wage because it has been going up progressively since then. Might it be because their projected goal for the year was higher profits than last year? I can speculate but something is making everything go sky high. And its not minimum wage.

I read an article about minimum wage and making adjustments for inflation, you know cost of living raises we used to get and they said if they were consistently adjusting minimum wage for inflation the minimum wage would be over 15 an hour.

My argument is there is an attack on the poor and middle class and if we sit by and do nothing it is only going to get worse.

Call me crazy or call me paranoid, fine by me. But this is the way I see it when I watch the news so does most of the people.

Real people - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Things I try to do:

At the supermarket and Walmart, I do not go through the self-check line--I go through the cashier line.

At the gas station, I do not pay at the pump (although this is difficult in the winter months for me).

I am going to the library instead of downloading all the e-books.

I am going to the book store instead downloading e-books.

I am trying to do business at small local stores, although it is difficult.

I am sending real letters at times and plan to send out Christmas cards this year using the Post Office.

It is hard to give up the convenience, but it takes just a little will power.

More ideas welcome.

Correction: You conclude that (meat) prices not impacted by min wage - because they continued to rise after increase.

[ In Reply To ..]
I have no doubt that multiple factors have driven food prices higher. However, you seem to believe that the effects of an increase in the minimum wage are felt immediately after it occurs, and this is not the case. The impact of the minimum wage on prices is one that ripples through the economy over a period of time both before (in anticipation of) the increase and afterward. It's not like the minimum wage increases on Tuesday and on Wednesday bada-boom the prices rise.

The same is true of most governmental interference ("regulation") in the so-called free-market economic system. For instance, when corporate tax rules change, it takes years for the impact to be reflected (if ever) in prices.

This is especially true of consumer prices because these effects first must work their way through the producer pricing system before they show up in the grocery store.

Since companies - especially those involved with commodities such as meat, grains (cereal), etc. - have ways to fix their costs in advance through futures contracts, they will feel the pressures by factors such as minimum wages in the future, not immediately.

You seem interested in economics. There are a lot of good online courses in both macro- and microeconomics that you might find both interesting and enlightening. One thing that I'm certain you'll learn is that the simplistic economic slogans and "solutions" thrown around by politicians (and I mean, politicians of ALL stripes) are almost always bogus.

Other interesting courses - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
The current price of beef and pork has been majorly affected by supply and demand, not small increases in production costs. The ongoing drought and increasingly severe climate has has made beef producers reduce the size of the herds (or Mother Nature did it for them). Pork has gone up because of a virus that has greatly reduced herd sizes.

Might I suggest a course on climate change (droughts, blizzards and tornadoes and the effect on crops/animals) How about epidemiology? (the spread of porcine diseases or the spread of Ebola or Dutch elm disease? Or a course on GMO engineered crops and their effects on beneficial natural insects such as bees and butterflies?

How about a course on the effects of hunger on children in families living in poverty? Perhaps there is a long term effect on the economy regarding lack of intellectual development cause by malnutrition and education and further reliance on government support.

Of course there are many factors that ultimately - determine prices, as I've noted.

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not quite sure what your point is, unless it's nothing more than stating the obvious.

Incidentally, the touted increase in the minimum wage to $15 would by no means comprise a "small increase" in production costs.

Huffington Post published a story saying that a wage increase to $15 would "only" raise the price of a Big Mac "by 68 cents", and then immediately had to retract that story because their research was erroneous (the source of their data lied to them). In fact, the resulting increase would probably be closer to $1.20 - and that's just for the company to stand pat at the same amount of profit earned from the sandwich.

Now, an increase of 68 cents was horrendous enough when viewed as we usually should view fiscal numbers, i.e. in terms of percentage, amounting to 15.9%. The corrected number, $1.20, amounts to a rise of 28.1%!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/mcdonalds-salaries_n_3672006.html

As for the other "courses":

1. A course in "climate change"? Why not Brothers Grimm, Mother Goose or Harry Potter?

2. A course in droughts? Here's the Father Sarducci 5-Minute University short course: The worst droughts in this country at thi time are directly tied to governmental meddling with water resources.

3. Economic impact of children in poverty, etc. Probably the most relevant factor that you mention - and not only because of the DIRECT economic cost, but also many other INDIRECT costs, some of which defy measurement although we know they exist. The answer is still the same: We need to equip people to take their place in the labor market, and not just in any low-wage job, but in jobs that are in demand and therefore have a much greater chance of earning decent wages. We have MANY jobs in this country that employers cannot fill because they can't find people with the necessary skills - although many of these skills can be acquired in a year or two if we would only provide the pathway. This pathway would have to include a living allowance, the full cost of the training, AND should include certain "soft" skills that people need in the workplace in order to be good corporate citizens.

Show me how we can invest in such pathways, and I'm behind it 1000%. In my opinion, anything else we might do (and have done) is just window-dressing and a sham. What I'd really like to see is a program that would effectively harness both corporate and governmental resources, working together to attack this problem, solve the mismatch between the jobs available and the skills that people possess, and clear the way for people to move up and out of poverty. Everybody wins.

now we might be on the same page - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
You are right on with your point 3.

Show me how we can invest in such pathways, and I'm behind it 1000%. In my opinion, anything else we might do (and have done) is just window-dressing and a sham. What I'd really like to see is a program that would effectively harness both corporate and governmental resources, working together to attack this problem, solve the mismatch between the jobs available and the skills that people possess, and clear the way for people to move up and out of poverty. Everybody wins.

I agree with the above 1000%. Minimum wage jobs were not meant to support families.

I have heard, so please do not quote me on this, that a citizen of California can go to college for free. If that is true, then that would be a great start.

Someone who can't afford living expenses certainly cannot afford college. Or even a trade school. If we don't invest in people they will become completely dependent on the government and as we all know our government is pretty much broke.

I will say this much, some people have the mentality that they are owed everything. That they do not have to work for what they have or need. Somehow that has to change. Not sure how but obviously I am not in a position to change anything other than myself.

Now we are starting to talk the same language. I agree we need to invest in training so people can be productive. And yes everyone wins.

That will make good conversation I am sure.

A good start versus the end game - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Lets play the game then. You are the CEO who cannot find trained people able to do the job in the US for next to nothing pay.

Lets look at a prospective worker (a child). The hypothesis:

First of all, it is a proven fact that one of the main reasons for poverty is children being raised in minimum wage home.

a. Prevent unwanted pregnancies through education and contraceptive (i.e. Family Planning) to alleviate family stress.
b. Improve prenatal/maternal nutrition through WIC and food stamps.
c. Improve childhood socialization, education, nutrition through programs such as Head Start and Early Childhood education.
d. Increase the parents pay to increase purchasing power and self-esteem.

Do you see the private companies stepping in here? No.

Kid in school:
1. A well-rounded healthy child in public school.
a. Good teachers
b. Transportation to school
c. Good nutrition through breakfast, lunch, after-school snacks.
d. Exercise/learning to be a team.
e. Music. Contributes to math and reading skills.
f. Providing to kids things that are not available to kids at home because parents cannot or will not provide. Anti-smoking, sex ed, financial education, etc.

Post secondary:
We agree. People need to be able to afford an education and live with food and shelter.

Maybe now your CEO could contribute some of those big bucks towards the above goals instead of hoarding it in the Caymans.

Things the CEO can do -- - more ideas

[ In Reply To ..]
Back in my parent's generation, companies expected to train employees. Now it seems they want to hire people totally trained and ready to hit the ground running.

Worker's used to be offered defined benefit pensions. Workers stayed with a company for life out of loyalty to an employer who took pretty good care of them. There are even some remnants of employer-provided housing here in our city from back in the early 1900s.

During the Clinton administration there was a big emphasis on family. There was the family leave act and employers were actually putting in on-site day care for their working moms.

Workers received health insurance that was totally paid for through employer. If you did not take the company-provided insurance, you were provided a stipend to keep the benefit fair. Back then, I had 12 days of vacation a year, 12 days of sick leave, and all major holidays paid and off, as well as some minor ones as well.

What happened? Citizen's United, US Chamber of Commerce, Koch brothers, and the Tea Party.

A good start. - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
How about cost of living raises we used to get on top of raises. When was theh last time you got one of those.

The attack on the average workers has been coming on for many, many years. It has just gotten so blatent it has gotten unbearable. That is why we all need to take action of some sort before we get charged to work for them.

How can we play a game if only one of us has a "role"? - Here's yours.

[ In Reply To ..]
You're the President of the United States, a nation that has spent over $13 trillion in the "war on poverty" since Johnson, and where private NGOs have poured almost another $trillion.

(Have we lost the appreciation for how large that number is, a trillion?)

A nation that spends more per child in school than almost any nation on earth with much less to show for it than you might imagine - and spends a greater proportion of that money in poorer school districts.

A nation where a family of four at the poverty level can easily qualify to receive over $40,000 per year worth of government benefits. (Per person, over $14,000, actually.)

A nation that already funds not one, two, five, ten or even two dozen government job-training programs, but FORTY-SEVEN of them - and that's just at the federal level. Each of the states has one or more of their own. (I remember when the mainscream media scoffed at Mitt Romney when he said "49 programs", but then suddenly buried the story when it turned out that he only off by 2.)

Your turn. You throw the die and you land on a square that says: "You have been booked to address a conference of CEO's and persuade them that the solution to poverty is throwing more money at the problem - meaning, of course, their money."

You might start by explaining why, of the 47 existing job-training programs, only FIVE have been required to complete an impact study and why OVER HALF have had no oversight whatsoever (according to the GAO). Then you might go on to explain to me where the education money is REALLY going because darn little of it's going to educate children, although the administrative:education distribution ratio does improve where there are vouchers and charter schools. (Hint: If you're not sure about any of this, watch the documentary entitled "The Cartel".) And you can wrap up your speech by telling me why I as a CEO should give more money to a government where fraud, abuse and waste are rampant, and where incompetent people work in bureaucratic jobs that are, for no reason whatsoever, more highly paid and have much better benefits than their counterparts in the private sector, and where those government workers can't be terminated even for things like (a) charging personal expenses to government credit cards, (b) failure to pay their federal income tax, or (c) surfing pornography sites on the taxpayer's dime.

Okay, I'm listening, Ms. President, and I've got my check book right here.

Please don't treat me as if I am stupid and don't put words in my mouth - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
I never said minimum wage goes up on Tuesday and prices will go up on Wednesday and I never implied such a thing. What I am saying is prices will go up regardless.

My husband and I own a small and I mean a very small fleet of expidite trucks. We have four trucks signed on with an expidite company. We have three drivers and my husband drives one.

We do a split with our drivers. Now the other owners do a 80-20 split, some do a 75-25 split, the owners keep 75-80% of all revenue the trucks make and the driver only gets paid 20-25% for the miles driven. The gas allowance given for each load most all of the owners keep that for themselves and that can be hundreds and hundreds of dollars a week. And the drivers have to pay for gas out of their share. Their drivers are out there begging for money to eat.

We do a 60-40 split of all revenue, they get 60% and we get 40%. Of course my husband keeps 100% of the revenue his truck makes. Our drivers are making over $40,000 per year driving for my husband. And we pay all repairs to the vans, workers comp, all insurances on the trucks too. Each truck puts on over 100,000 miles per year. Our 2011 truck has over 500,000 miles on it and still pounding the pavement. Go GM.

We are not making a fortune off of these trucks but we do make a profit off of them and these drivers work their butts off for us. They stay out there for weeks at a time. We have outfitted the vans for them, we have custom made beds (smaller than a twin) for them, we outfit the trucks with gel batteries for their laptops, heaters and such and other electric appliances, we even supply cable TV through a sling box for them to watch TV if they are in an area getting good internet. Our trucks are never older than 5 years old. My husband demands maintenance is done on these trucks regularly and will fine them if its not done when it should be. They comply. The first driver he hired 7 years ago is still with us and 2 years later we put 2 more trucks on and they have been with us for 5 years.

Our drivers brag about who much money they are making and how good we are to them and these poor drivers who can't afford food while on the road are begging to come to work for us.

My husband rarely eats out, I make meals for him and freeze them and he takes them with him and thats what he eats. Two of his drivers wives do the same.

It can work, it is working. But we don't have to get rich overnight. But we do sleep good at night.

Point is we all are profitting in this business. The other owners can't keep drivers and until they hire drivers who are approved through the company their vans sit and making nothing. Ours are only down for maintenance and repairs. Oh and 2 weeks at Christmas for big maintenance and because it is slow at that time.

We never expected to make as much off these vans as we are making so that was quite a surprise and its all because we treat our drivers with respect and we pay them well.

So please don't give me a lesson on economics. Our economics works very well for us and it could work very well for everyone if the greed stopped.

Going with the flow isn't always the best way and for us it definitely was not. We are proud to say we treat our drivers very good and we prove it by the length of time they have worked for us. Now that is how economics should work.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you are "stupid". There's - a difference between implication and inference.

[ In Reply To ..]
You inferred what you want to, and I can't help that.

However, you do keep repeating the same mistake. Once again you've provided an example of free-market decisions - in this case, decisions made by you in the way you operate your own business. This is how the capitalist market works, and to someone who isn't stupid, as I'm sure you're not, I shouldn't have to make the same point over and over again. Unfortunately, even smart people can and do cling to false ideas even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Did you say evidence? - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
Isn't the proof in the pudding? Isn't the fact that there are thousands and thousands of working poor in our country proof enough? I don't care about book and statistic proof, I care about real life proof. A big difference. I am no economics major and I am sure that is obvious but I have been around the block once or twice and real life is what matters to me. Nothing more. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that people are working 40+ hours a week and have to choose between paying bills or buying groceries. I just can't.

You will never convince me that this system works. It only works for some and not for all and that is where my issue lies and will continue to lie.

We don't live in statistics and books, and statistics can definitely be wrong but life is not wrong. Whar is going on around us is reality. How does reality figure into your equation?

What would you say about why the number of working people on food stamps has gone up, which puts a strain on states. Would you just call them collateral damage? What? Why does anyone who is holding down a full time job need foodstamps.

Completely understandable if the company they work for cannot truely afford to pay a living wage, but when the company is making billions and not sharing that wealth is where my problem lies. Let those companies pay for the food stamps then. Why should my tax dollars pay for it?

Very reasonable questions. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
A word about statistics first, though.

Statistics are not disconnected from "real life" as you seem to believe. In fact, it is precisely the role of statistics to help us understand real-life phenomena that are too "big" (large numbers), too scattered or, in some cases, too subtle for us to fully grasp from a purely empirical or "experiential" standpoint.

As an example, say you have 100 SAT test scores from school A, and 100 SAT test scores from school B. These are real-life test scores, and you have a real-life problem because you want to use those scores as a way to assess how effective one school is compared to the other. Should you send your child to school A or school B?

Now, there's almost no way to think rationally about these 200 SAT scores in any other way than by using statistical tools. The average score, for instance, is a statistic, as is the median score. (Both are called "measures of central tendency".) These reduce 200 scores to 2 numbers that can be easily compared. Then, realizing that both averages and medians can be unduly affected by one or two "outlier" scores, you can calculate the "standard deviation" to give you an idea how widely the scores range around the average, etc. Again, you would have just 2 numbers (one for each school) to compare.

I could go on, but my point is that the methods of statistics help us think about real-life phenomena. They're not an end to themselves, of course, but they're very useful tools in our arsenal of logical thinking.

Most economic and social problems can be illuminated, but never solved, by statistical methods. The problem of wage inequality is just one example. Statistics can tell us a lot about wage inequality - but not what can - or should - be done about it. What statistics can do for us here is to give us some historical perspective about what has been tried, and what the outcomes have been.

We have a lot of data on this because the first minimum wage law was passed in 1938, but without getting into the data, let me revert to the empirical approach that you prefer - the "real life" observations that you speak about, and ask you a simple question: In the 76 years since that first law was passed, what has happened to the percentage of the American people who live in poverty, and what has happened to the "income" gap between the top 1% and the lower 50% of the population?

I won't go back to 1938, but to 1964, when Johnson's "War on Poverty" was declared and ushered in the most massive expansion of government programs in this area since FDR. At that time, the poverty rate stood at around 14%. Today it stands at over 16% despite the fact that during those very same years the minimum wage has been raised 18 times.

What we do know about the minimum wage is that it's a mixed bag. It seems to have had very little impact on poverty levels, and we know that about as many lower-income people (perhaps a bit more) have been harmed by it as have been helped.

As such, we cannot avoid the conclusion that as tempting as it might be to think that we can simply crank up the minimum wage to bring people out of poverty, the evidence doesn't support that idea, and that we must look elsewhere for solutions to poverty.

The issue of "income inequality" is a very different sort of question, having more to do with something called "social justice" than with the causes or solutions to poverty itself.

We look around our world, both you and I, and we see people in trouble - sometimes desperate trouble. We're very fortunate if we're not touched by these problems ourselves - perhaps within our own families, or among our friends.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

Who isn't moved by these things? Who among us hasn't reached into our own pocket, in one way or another, to try to help - while feeling at the same time that there's so little we can do?

One thing we CAN do is to try our best to think clearly about these problems and we CAN subject solutions that are offered to us to rigorous scrutiny.

As seductive as simple solutions are, we must not yield to any that that do little more than assuage our sense of obligation or just because "we have to do something". What we must do is the right thing, not just anything. We must ask ourselves the hard questions about these simple solutions - as, for instance, whether they actually work - if we're going to get on with the much harder job of finding out what really does work. This is one of my great worries about the minimum wage debate - that it offers false hope while sucking the oxygen out of the search for real solutions.

What I would rather do (because I think here lie real solutions) is to look at the mismatch between skills and literally millions of jobs that go begging for workers, to look at ways to incentivize private enterprise to invest in the unemployed and the underemployed, and to begin NOW to think about a world looming in the not-too-distant future when MANY jobs will become automated, in whole or in part. I don't believe we're thinking nearly enough about what the world of work will look like even as soon as 2030.

Sometimes, seemingly disparate situations can present opportunities to solve two or more problems at once. For instance, American corporations right now are literally just sitting on over $1 trillion in cash, held overseas because of (a) corporate tax rates in the US, and (b) a regulatory environment in the US that can only be called hostile to business, at least compared with some other nations.

We are very interested in "repatriating" these cash holdings by American corporations - and there is support for reducing the corporate tax rate on both sides of the political aisle. Unfortunately, the leader of the Senate isn't interested and won't allow anything of that nature to come to a vote. Perhaps that situation will change come Tuesday, but whether it does or not, might we not force his hand by tying tax breaks to labor investment? In other words, the corporation gets the tax break IF, and ONLY IF, a set percentage of the repatriated money is used for training new workers, who are then hired by the company? I fail to see how even Harry Reid could withstand the political pressure such a measure would bring to bear on him.

We have to get after these problems in a much more serious and much more effective way than thinking we can do this by simply goosing the minimum wage, but as long as we think that's the answer we aren't likely to get to the real solutions.

sorry, was gone for a 3-day weekend. But I am back. - nana7

[ In Reply To ..]
Now we can get somewhere, as your plan would help both the corps and every day people.

As a matter of fact, while I was reading your post, brought back a memory of my brother. Fresh out of high school and who took drafting throughout high school, was hired by our energy company in our state. He was taken under the wing of the CEO and trained in every aspect of the business. That was the only job my brother held in his life and, God rest his soul, he died at that job. My brother often said he was like a second dad to him.

He eventually became head of departments and one of those departments he was responsible for designing pipelines through the states and often went to other states to help with the design.

Point being if the CEO of the company didn't take him under his wing and teach him everything he knew, I don't think that would have been possible for my brother. My family did not have the money to put him through college.

My brother grew as the company grew, and it was profittable to both. He worked at that company for more than 30 years before he died.

So I think you are 100% on target with what you say, but the loyalty the top management has is not to the employee it is to the stockholder and to make them as much money as they can. That would definitely take a hit and with today's across the board mentality of CEO's and such I don't see that likely happening.

But yes I think you are onto something. Now the whole key would be how to do you business people to agree? That is the trillion dollar question and if you came up with a plan to make it work you then deserve to the President of our nation.

Our government cannot afford to continue to take care of the working poor. Out system was not set up for that. But I agree if the companies were given enough incentive to hire and train and then be paid a living wage the I am all for these tax incentives. And I also say if they are not on board then if any and I do mean any right down to the janitor who sweeps their floors, are getting any kind of assistance then it should be charged back to that company and the states recoup their money.

I am so glad you understand lagging indicators - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
Nice to see you understand how the fiasco of the Bush administration is still plaguing us today.

nana7 - Anna

[ In Reply To ..]
Sorry, but one example standing alone is insufficient ground upon which to form a conclusion. As they say in statistics, the sample is too small.

God forbid you should - deprive

[ In Reply To ..]
CEO's of part their obscene salaries or cut back on advertising budgets to give workers a living wage.

A Journey of thousand miles begins with - a single step - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
To listen to the naysayers, it is a wonder that any progress ever gets made in this country.

I really like your post because it recognizes something good and positive and a business being willing to change and do the right thing, instead of what makes the quickest, biggest profit. There might be hope for us yet.

I agree, especially since this is a free-market example - not one imposed by the government.

[ In Reply To ..]
Good on these entrepreneurs who created a business model that would support paying higher wages, and who see the value (even to themselves and their customers) of paying better wages.

But make no mistake about it, this IS an example of the free market at work, allowing entrepreneurs to make decisions that benefit both them and their employees.

The next step, raising the bar - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Any raise is a good raise.

Perhaps if there is a McDonald's across the street, they might have to raise their wage to keep up with this restaurant.

If they don't, perhaps the politicians will see that the federal minimum wage is ridiculous because most employers are just plain greedy.

The prices in the grocery store did not go up because there was a huge increase in demand for food. It is because the grocery/producers set their prices higher. The number of apartments available has not changed significantly, but the landlords decided to raise the rents. All of our basic needs have gone up. Raising the minimum wage will not have a big impact on these necessities, but it will have a big impact on the lives of people who depend on these low-wage jobs.

Its time these businesses get off government welfare where their employees depend on food stamps, the earned income credit, housing subsidies, etc., just to get by while working at full time jobs--and at the same time the CEOs are making millions.

"Employers are greedy"..."CEOs making millions"... - Class envy much?

[ In Reply To ..]
Just to set the record straight:

1. The median income for CEO's in 2013 was around $750,000. By "median", you can rightly infer that half of the CEOs made less than that. Only 10% made $1 million or more, and these are people who have the rare abilities needed to lead $billion or sometimes $multi-billion companies.

2. When you see a large company that pays the CEO lots of money, you're just looking at the end result of what has usually been a very long process over many years that started with some little person taking a terrible risk with capital - maybe their life savings - and starting a business - and probably taking a lot more risks along the way to build the business into something substantial and lasting.

The "biographies" of major corporations make fascinating reading, filled with danger, tragedy and triumph, blood, sweat, sacrifice and tears. I suggest you spend some time doing so as you obviously have no appreciation whatsoever of what it takes to start, build and grow a company. It's not like a crack opened up in the earth and lo! Out of the mist there suddenly appears a Boeing, an IBM or a WalMart.

3. As a rule, the company board of governors sets the CEO's salary, and the governors in turn are elected by the stockholders. In the case of the "CEO's making millions", the number of people who have the skill set, the experience, the knowledge and other equally important traits needed to run $billion or $multi-billion companies aren't exactly dropping out of trees, and the old law of supply and demand is working here. Moreover, I think it's reasonably fair to suggest that the heavy responsibilities of the job justify substantial compensation.

Now, there's no question that some, and perhaps even many, executive salaries have been growing at a rate faster than those of employees. I think that in part this has been fueled by the fact that the business environment has become so much more risky over the past couple of decades than it used to be, and frankly not a few corporate boards are scared to death of what's coming next. Whether it's logical (or helpful) or not, they tend to assuage their fears by throwing money at the problem, competing fiercely with one another for "the man" or "the woman" who can navigate the stormy waters ahead. And so, executive salaries rise. There are other factors, of course, but I've noticed that the more uncertain the business environment becomes, the more hope (and money) that corporate boards tend to place in "landing the genius" executive to make everything better.

But I digress. Pull out your life savings, risk it all in a business, build it into a $multimillion company, and then come back and tell me why you don't think you should be well compensated.

More to the point, here's a magic [BUTTON]. It lets you set the "ratio" between executive and employee compensation that's "fair", "right", or "proper" - however you put it. You get to choose any ratio you wish. Tell me what the ratio is, and then defend it.

Better than this ratio - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
Average CEO Compensation $ 12,259,894
Worker earning Fed. min wage $ 00,015,080

Wow! That is 3 more zeroes! (for comparison)

I bet that CEO does not have to pay into the insurance fund, gets paid holidays, and more than 1 week of paid leave per year. In fact, probably gets sick leave, vacation leave, AND holidays. I bet he/she does not worry about retirement, groceries, mortgage, kids education, cost of gas. Sweet!

Wish I had some of those life savings to invest in a business.

Average CEO compensation is NOT $12 million. - Start with some real facts.

[ In Reply To ..]
Watch where you get your numbers. For instance, if you take them (or if your source does) from places like the AFL-CIO "SalaryWatch" site, you should be aware that the union is hardly an honest broker. They deliberately take their numbers from only FIVE companies that have been SPECIFICALLY CHOSEN precisely because they have high executive pay and a lot of lower wage workers - like WalMart.

The union, like most politicians, know that people will swallow anything, even rank dishonesty.

There are other sources like Salary.com, on the other hand, that take their numbers directly from government employment data, meaning ALL data reported to the government, and not, how shall I put it..."filtered"?

The median income for a CEO in the United States (latest): $744,699. "Median" = 50% were paid less, $50% were paid more. Only 10% were paid $1 million or more.

But so what? What makes the CEO's compensation a benchmark by which worker compensation should be judged in the first place? And even if you can defend that, what is the role of government? Just what would the "proper", "fair" or even "just" compensation ratio (CEO:worker) be, if the government were to enforce one, and how do you support that ratio, and not another ratio that someone else is sure to champion?

Let's think about how we might justify a particular CEO:worker compensation ratio. What measure - actual METRICS - might we be able to use? One that springs to mind is "productivity" - meaning, the dollar value generated per unit of time (a year, let's say). How would you calculate the productivity of a CEO?

I'm listening.

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