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Just a quick observation

Posted: Feb 18, 2011

How many posts did we see about the tea party protests and how they claimed to be racist as well as inciting violence?

Now we have these unions workers protesting in WI with the governor sporting Hitler's mustache and several posters that could be taken as inciting violence....and yet I don't see anyone pointing that out. Why is that?

;

Funny you should mention that. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I was thinking the same thing yesterday while watching the news.

Interesting video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gsnLfsbbM&feature=player_embedded

Whats funny is the video shows protesters using slogans - borrowed from the tpots as

[ In Reply To ..]
examples of violent rhetoric. When they were being called out about these same protests tactics in the past, they were screaming bloody murder and copped to instant denial. Cant have it both ways. If you werent inciting then, they arent inciting now. Get over yourself.

Actually the signs were borrowed from.... - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
The protesters who protested against President Bush. Same Hitler mustache they put on Bush, same sayings/slogans, etc, etc.

The selfish protesters now crying because they are asked to pay 5% for the medical and benefits (which happens to be less than half of what everyone else in the state has to pay) are way out of line. Yesterday I say them beating on the railing in the capital. I'm waiting to hear of violence towards people erupting if they don't get their way. The governor is trying to get his state out of the mess they are in. And they are comparing him to Hitler? Why, because he's asking them to pay a fraction of what everyone else has to pay, but they want it free???? So not only have they shown themselves to be selfish but they also show themselves to be ignorant. Comparing the gov to Hitler is way out of line and they should be ashamed of themselves.

And you forget the simple fact that there is and was no violence from people in the tea party. Not one report ever. What part of that don't you understand?

You are the one who needs to get over yourself.

unfortunately.... - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
The public perception is that the protest is over paying for medical benefits and pension. I live in WI and have several teachers as friends, and I can tell you the teachers are not just taking issue with the items. Their bigger problem is with the loss of collective bargaining power, without which their contracts mean nothing and they have no recourse when they are let go because they are higher paid than the new grads. Some teachers here have been told to stop working on their master's degrees because they have a better chance of keeping their jobs if they have less education and thus earn less. How is that good for our education system? Plus -- they already pay for their benefits, perhaps not as much as those of us in the private sector, but they are not getting them for free. The argument that teachers only work 9 months of the year does not hold water, either. do you know what they do with their time off? They prepare for the upcoming year. They attend classes to earn their mandatory CEs. they spend their evenings and weekends during the school year preparing lesson plans and grading papers. Many teachers pay for classroom supplies out of their own pockets because their budgets have been slashed. We entrust our most valuable assets, our children, to them. Often time children spend more time with their teachers than they do with their parents. but somehow society has devalued teachers. Their safety is often compromised and their authority is undercut by parents consistently. No way can they be called selfish or ignorant. Perhaps before you jump on this bandwagon you should try talking to a couple of concerned educators and hear both sides of this story.

You didn't understand my comment - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
First, I don't jump on any bandwagon. I've been listening to the news (on CNN) and I've been hearing the support for the teachers speak and I've been hearing the governor speak. I make my own determinations about what I feel toward one or the other. In fact I have not heard any commentary people speak on the issue because I don't care what they think about it. I want to hear what both sides have to say and weight the issues for myself. What I heard today was that all the teachers are being asked for is to pay 5% towards their benefits (and then other things about the financial situation of the state). As he was talking about asking them to pay 5% for their benefits the mob starting getting louder and louder.

I know what a teacher does on their time. My aunt teaches 5th grade. She spends her nights, weekends, and summers attending classes, etc. When I talked to her about this she said just because we spend our time furthering ourselves to be better for our jobs it doesn't mean we should get free health care and benefits at the expense of everyone else in the state (she is out of TX).

My comment about the ignorance was because they are equating the governor to Hitler. Sorry I don't see the gov sending these people to death camps and yanking them out of their homes in the middle of the night, sending SS troops after them, etc. Comparing him to Hitler IS ignorant.

Maybe your aunt could teach you about the broad based nature - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
of the use of metaphoric references. Included in that lesson should be the basic American precept of freedom of expression.

Hitler did all that you described. He also did what you left out. He banned unions by declaration. In the US, we do not govern by decree. Those who try to do so are generally viewed as dictatorial. Thus the depiction of Walker as Hitler conveys THAT message quite handily.

The freedom of expression comes into play when either side chooses to invoke his image in political protests. I agreed with the messages of those who did this when protesting Bush policies. He was viewed by them as seeking world domination. He used veils of secrecy and abused his presidential powers in ways that posed direct threats to American hard fought freedoms. I am sure the Tea Party protests were expressing the same sentiments against Obama, a view I do not agree with. However, they have every right to use that image in protests to get their message out.

To claim one side is inciting to violence and the other side is not when doing so is hypocrisy in its purest form. Pot calling the kettle black messengers have zero credibility. Besides, the idea that depicting a political leader as Hitler in a protest is violence provoking is absurd on the face of it and is a patently bankrupt argument.

perhaps the teachers should keep their jobs based on job performance - WI MI

[ In Reply To ..]
Many teachers that I know, I live in WI too, are biding their time doing the bare minimum and waiting for retirement and their big fat pension that we taxpayers have fully paid for to kick in. They could care less about the kids or the parents or even doing their job. How is that good for our education system? Why do you think homeschooling has become more popular here lately? Because parents are sick of the lazy and liberal teachers cramming their political beliefs on the kids- dragging them to Madison to protest when the kids have no idea why they are there or just plain not teaching at all.

I had one teacher tell my son that she knew his parents made more money than her and we should give her more money. Arguing politics with a 10 year old!
She makes 40K a year watching recess and lunch so these "hard working" teachers can take a break. If her pay is so bad then she needs to go find a real job where she has to work more than 3 hours a day for 9 months of the year.

I do realize there are teachers who go above and beyond their jobs, but they are few and far between and too many feel entitled to their position and benefits. That is why I think teachers should actually get job performance reviews and the bad apples need to be told to find a different line of work.

Dont Retreat, Reload and crosshairs are not from the Bush era. - Did you bother to look at it before posting?

[ In Reply To ..]
...yet this was used to illustrate incitement to violence in the video. You do remember where THAT came from, dont you?

Beating on the railing (done to make noise and set rhythm to chants)? Bit of a stretch dontcha think? The remainder of your post only serves to show how much you dont know about this issue, especially about the financial arm of it, though that is not the main thrust of the motivation. See CJs post.

BTW, did you hear that a union rep proposed a compromise wherein they offered TO CONCEDE to the rise in pension and benefits costs in exchange for preserving collecting bargaining? Guess what Walker did? Reject, reject, reject. This is clearly NOT about the money and "saving" the state. It is about partisan-driven puppeteer-orchestrated party agenda to destroy unions, staight up.

The gov is being compared to Hitler because Hitler abolished unions in 1933 by declaration, much the same way Walker is trying (and failing) to do now. Comparing the governor to Hitler is right on the money.

Listen up. They already contribute to their pensions and health benefits. The hike is over and above what they already pay, which is quite comparable to what the rest of us pay, and it is not a 5% hike, so you are wrong on all counts there.

I hear the tpots are headed for WI. Once they descend, your prediction of things getting heated up and out of hand just might come to pass. BTW, you seem positively giddy at that prospect.

I stand by my original request. Get over yourself and go read up on the issue before your next post.

Hitler pictures, etc were!!! - NM

[ In Reply To ..]
nm!

pension - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
"They already contribute to their pensions and health benefits."

The majority of Americans work for companies that don't even offer pensions anymore. The last time I was working for company who had pension as a benefit was in 1981. Most companies have switched to 401(k) plans or something similar. In fact, just today, I got a notice from PepsiCo (I used to work for Frito-Lay many moons ago) that beginning January 2011, they are no longer offering pensions.

If anyone has to make a contribution to their own pension, I'm sorry I can't cry the tears.

Teachers in West Bloomfield, Michigan, pay ZERO deductible and ZERO health insurance costs. They had a "sick out" day this week because they are unhappy about having to pay for some insurance costs.
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/14584

You have missed the whole point... - not a big shock!

[ In Reply To ..]
My point...which you have totally missed....is that YOU guys are the ones ranting and raving about tea partiers and their signs. YOU guys are the ones who said they were inciting violence and were racist. YOU GUYS DID! But you are the ones who are okay with liberal protests who hold up similar signs. I'm not saying those signs were inciting violence or racism. I was merely pointing out that YOU GUYS said that about the tea partiers but yet are okay with liberals doing the exact same thing. So take your own advice...YOU GUYS CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

It seems the unions are open to tea partiers - as well liberals

[ In Reply To ..]

That could be taken as inciting violence? By whom? - Sean High and Mighty?

[ In Reply To ..]
You've been watching too much Focks. The link below makes you sound like you live in an echo chamber.

WI governor sports a Hitler moustache because some of those folks feel directly attacked and are portraying him as a dictator. As I recall, we weren't supposed to get all hot and bothered about it when tpots portrayed Obama in this fashion, so why the rub now? I believe the argument at the time had something to do with free speech, did it not?

Also, when comparing Wisconsin protests to the tpots, cant say I have noticed any of those Wisconsin protestorsbrandishing weapons, swaggering around shouting about open carry laws and second amendment remedies, talking about reloading and the like. When black legislators walk by, they dont come within chest bump distance of them, spit in their faces and invoke racial epithets either. Perhaps thats why these baseless accusations cant get any traction beyond the Focks News channel.

You probably would like this link. I was unable to get past the first paragaph or two. I felt my blood pressure shoot up 20 points immediately. His predictable consummate hypocrisy was just more than I could take. Enjoy.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/transcript/disturbing-left-wing-rhetoric-display-wisconsin-union-protests

You people are so blind it isn't funny. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You all raised a holy ruckus when you saw Obama's picture with a Hitler mustache. We felt Obama was making government too big and taking over our country and yet you all called us racist and violent for that picture and yet you seem to have no trouble with W. supporting a Hitler mustache or this gov of WI supporting a mustache. You guys are so full of double standards and complete BS it isn't funny.

You all kept on and on and on about the tea party because they held a different view point than you....but hey....it's okay to hold up offensive signs with crosshairs on it and people supporting Hitler's mustache when the people protesting have the same view point as you. More double standards and I'm tired of it!!!!

You all wanted Palin strung up when she used the term "reload" in her speech and yet you seem to have no trouble with liberals holding up signs with the same terms. Give me a break!

You are avoiding the question. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If if wasnt violence-inciting speech when tpots used the tactic, as they so clearly prolaimed, SO WHY THE RUB NOW? Walkers behavior is directly paralleled in Hitlers history when in 1933 he banned unions by declaration as has already been pointed out, precisely what Walker seeks to do in realtime. My unanswered question has to do with the hypocrisy of portraying this tactic as violence-inciting now that dems are hurling it back atcha when you claimed the exact opposite on behalf of the tpots. At least the dems are staying on topic in doing so. Hitler banned unions. Walker is trying to ban them too. Historically consistent statement, and by consensus between dems and tpots, NOT violence-inciting, huh?

Nowhere did I condone the use of crosshairs by either side. I merely pointed out that the video invoked a tactic that rose directly out of tpot rants to illustrate violent rhetoric, which I find ironic considering the intended message in the video, dontcha think? I abhor that image along with SPs OCD with gun references and unequivocally condemn their use by WHOMEVER, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the issues at hand. This has nothing to do with POV. It is unacceptable after Tucson, and should have been all along.

Break not granted. The hypocrisy is all yours.

Again...point missed entirely. - Use your brains

[ In Reply To ..]
I never said you libs were inciting violence. I'm saying that you all were in an uproar about conservatives inciting violence and yet now that you are doing the same thing you said conservatives did....it isn't inciting violence at all. You guys are the ones with the blind double standards.

My question is not the only thing you are avoiding. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Please answer: SO WHY THE RUB NOW? Try to stay on the thread topic, which arose out of the video that tried to portray Tea Party slogans adopted by Wisconsin protesters as violence inciting and the irony found therein when posts such as yours attempt to distract from their own hypocrisy when calling out Wisconsin protesters for TRYING TO INCITE.

The post you are replying to also calls into question events from tea party protests that are absent absent in Wisconsin:

I do not see Wisconsin protestors brandishing weapons, swaggering around shouting about open carry laws and second amendment remedies...When black legislators walk by, they dont come within chest bump distance of them, spit in their faces and invoke racial epithets either. Perhaps thats why these baseless accusations cant get any traction beyond the Focks News channel.

Care to comment on those differences?

Where is your proof? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Over and over you libs have claimed tea party people were violent. Those people carrying weapons had a right to. Were people hurt, injured, shot during those protests? Show me proof that a black legislature was spit on and racial things were said because I have yet to see a video that actually shows this or where you can actually hear the racist slurs yelled out because I have yet to see proof of this. No violence from the tea party but I recall violence from union members who beat a black man and called him a N1gger because he didn't share THEIR view point.

The point of the video, regardless of how Fox News portrays what is going on WI, is that liberals protesting in WI are doing the exact same thing that tea partiers did and libs said they were inciting violence and were racist.

I personally don't find any sign with a politician's face on it sporting a Hilter mustache offensive. People have a right to their opinion. I don't agree with the views the protestors in WI have, but I'm not saying they can't express their views.

I never said those in WI were inciting violence but if you go by the liberal standard that what the tea party did was inciting violence, etc.....why aren't liberals saying the same about the protestors in WI as they are doing THE SAME THING THEY ACCUSED TEA PARTIERS OF DOING.

I am not avoiding anything. You seem unable to see the similarities between the tea party protests and the WI protests. Different view points but similar signs and yet one was inciting violence and the other isn't. You claim I'm the one who is hypocritical but you are the one refusing to see how hypocritcal liberals are as well.

I guess it takes one to know one, huh?

You are still avoiding the question and are determined - to stay off topic. sm

[ In Reply To ..]
The proof is there for those who seek it. You obviously are not one of those. I dont have time for butting my head up against a brick wall. I would rather go clean my toilet than to engage the rest of this this rant.

Sounds to me like you could perhaps - take your own advice.

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree that the proof is there for those who seek it. I also believe that some people see what they want to. That can definitely be said for people on both sides of the fence...including yourself.

agree with above - cad

[ In Reply To ..]
The proof is there for those who seek it?

Oh, please enlighten me. Please show me where it is. I seek it but I can't find it. Ah, those silly little facts make progressives run away every time - right after they call you a name.

proof - indemt

[ In Reply To ..]
"When black legislators walk by, they dont come within chest bump distance of them, spit in their faces and invoke racial epithets either."

Where's the proof? Have you seen it? Nope, didn't think so. No one has ever seen it because it never happened and never will. Stop spreading rumors and false accusations.

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