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Top security meeting on Ukraine/Russia yesterday (sm)

Posted: Mar 2, 2014

The President didn't feel it necessary to attend - I guess the golf course was calling - but don't worry, Susan Rice of the famous video briefed him. What a slacker.

;

Not to worry-- Owimpo will bring lots of marshmallows and - Sick of him

[ In Reply To ..]
everybody will hold hands around the campfire singing Kumbaya----.

When your primary goal is to run a country into the ground, - ..well, why bother?.

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nm

How Should The Problems In The Ukraine Be Handled? - Research Further

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Just curious. Not sure there's an easy answer. I certainly don't have one, but I'm still researching what all has happened, who has provided military support thus far and whether or not they were invited or force themselves in.

Of course, with Snowden in Russia and us cutting our military back too far (there's a difference between pruning and killing the plant), we need to be careful what we do (or don't do).

I'm still waiting to hear what Obama actually said, seems all speculation at this point.

Just my personal opinion - Trigger Happy

[ In Reply To ..]
There is no good answer to this topic. Obama has drawn a line and has warned Putin of consequences to any actions he might take involving Ukraine. If we are to keep our authority, we must follow through. As a country we cannot make empty threats and continue to be taken seriously. However, in saying that...I'm so tired of getting involved military wise in other countries and their business. Not to mention the money we cannot afford to spend on involving ourselves in a potentially major military action as well as the fact that we are currently cutting back on military as it is.

There is no good solution to this.

I agree with you. It does no good for him to be running around - making empty threats. Makes him look more ridicul

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Gamechanger: Copy of Budapest Memorandum - Research Further

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Not staying, but I'm just passing this along from a British friend, as I thought it would be of interest to everyone, considering recent discussion.

See the link, if it works - if not copy/paste - it's the actual document of the Budapest Memorandum, signed into international law, in 1994.
http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/49/765

Essentially, if I understand this correctly, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia all agreed not to threaten or use force against the "territorial integrity" and/or political independence of Ukraine. They also all pledged to never use economic coercion to subordinate Ukraine for their own interest. They also pledged to refrain from using the Ukraine as the object of military occupation or engage in other uses of force, except in self defense, or the signing parties would be in violation of this binding international law.

There are, of course, ways of skirting around that(patrolling the borders of the Ukraine without occupying and if anyone fires a shot, it's on), but if Putin proceeds directly, he's in violation of international law - and if we do, so are we.

According to this document, we are also limited on economic sanctions against them, too, if such sanctions are considered of benefit to our own interests.

So that leaves us with just about nothing but visa-tourist revocation for Russia's dignitaries vacationing to the U.S. or otherwise, which we granted them in 2012.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/pr_visas-082912.html

Otherwise, negotiation in the Middle East over oil rights could be considered as well, if anyone at all trusted Putin.

We'd best all hope Putin's just thumping his chest and putting on a show to make further fools of us

Putin has invaded Crimea stating that it's part of Russia - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
and they want to be part of Russia. With the unrest in the Ukraine, this was Putin's excuse to invade Crimea..."the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots, and the personnel of the armed forces of the Russian Federation on Ukrainian territory (in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea)."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ukraine-russian-invaded-occupies-crimea-article-1.1707141#ixzz2uwZjAsqe

This was just an excuse to gain control over the part of the Ukraine that has the most access to the Black Sea.

There was a UN meeting today with Russia stating their reasons why they should be ALLOWED to occupy both Crimea and the Ukraine. The US Ambassador gave "facts" why they shouldn't be able to do this, but I didn't see if there was any decision.

The U.N. has no backbone. - nm

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nm

I forgot about that - Trigger Happy

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Well if Putin isn't putting on a show, I guess we will have to take action. Ugh...so tired of constantly taking military action. Sometimes I wish we could just stay home and take care of our own. Ya know?

Yup, I do;) - Research Further

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I keep saying I'm shutting up, but I don't like to ignore anyone reasonable, it's rude :)

And I still have questions.

Like regarding the video above, Charles asked Sarah if she would like Ukraine to enter into NATO, at which point we could align militarily out of obligation.

So there must be a rule that NATO membership comes with an "override pass" to such UN agreements?

Or did they forget about the Budapest Memorandum like we did? Surely they knew what the rules were, I just don't, so I didn't get that part. If anyone knows these rules, fill us in.

And I don't want to speak for the above commenter regarding Russia's "folly", but I wonder if instead of UN power, she/he may have meant that Russia may not have the economic capacity for a full-on invasion, just as we don't?

If not, I wonder about that myself anyway, which is what makes me wonder if the Crimean invasion (or invite by Sergey Aksyonov or feigned invite - still not clear on that) is just chest-beating display, much like Kim Jong Ung did last year.

Like "Look at me, look at me, pay attention, I'm big enough now to play with the big boys too" :)

Maybe if we send Dennis Rodman to play basketball with Putin, too, it'll all be okay ;)

Not taking the situation lightly, just an absurd thought to make us smile during tense times.

Regardless, I'm reminded of these lyrics...

"Mr. Kruschev says, we will bury you...I don't subscribe to that point of view. Believe me when I say to you, I hope the Russians love their children too" ~ Sting

Liar Rice briefing Liar Obama - Make you feel safe yet?

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x

She's just another delusional patsy. - Waiting for the other shoe...

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No, I do not feel safe with this administration.

I don't feel safe either. Obama and regime too - busy protecting their sorry behinds

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with one lie after another, it is impossible for them to keep anything straight. No shock that world leaders all over think he is a joke, and that America's reputation, respect, and standing in the world has dropped to record lows. Research further and you have thousands of polls to gather your information.

I don't want to project, - sm

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But I can't help but wonder what's going to happen when he tries to push through his commie immigration agenda and opens our borders.

What do you mean WHEN he opens our borders? - Sick of him

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Our borders have been "open" for years. I lived in Arizona for a long time and it is a big joke. They come and go as if there was a big revolving door down there. The people who protest are always accused of being "racist".

Thanks for a truthful post - Any time anyone disagrees

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with the Anointed One on ANY issue, they are immediately accused of being a racist. Frankkly, I don't care what they call me. I am sick of this incompetent idiot. Now, I tell people they only part I am criticizing is the white part. We are OVERRUN where I live with illegal immigrants and our crime rate has skyrocketed. Our property values are down, crime out of control, and the illegal immigrant "rights" who broke they law to get here, is all the Liberals worry about. Ready to vote ALL the bleeding hearts out of office; sick of all of them.

Racist? - Research Further

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Did someone call someone else racist in this thread?

I don't think disagreement with Obama makes you or anyone appear racist...it's just...can't it be done without hatred and venom and name-calling? I can still hear some valid points, but it does make it harder to hear you.

However, what makes this comment in particular suspect for racism is that it at least appears you have equated crime rate with race - was that your intent?

Actually, the sociological studies I've read have shown crime is often the result of economic frustration - not race.

Gang membership and crime in major cities increased at the end of the 1800s/turn of the century as well - only back then, it was the poor immigrant Irish, Italians, Polish, Germans, etc. - ya know, our ancestors? :)

They, too, were paid less than fair wages to do jobs no one wanted to do and often got stiffed on the bill, and some of them also resorted to crime to survive too.

Not saying that's ever okay, but it is our country's history and our ancestors' history.

I do think more could be done for border control - for future healthcare coverage concerns, safety and yes, fear of them turning to crime to survive.

Finally, you may remove this comment for lack of relevance, from this point...but considering a subject that should be dead continues to be brought up to me, in other threads below without being removed, I want to be clear in this top one.

I ask that you read the next part in its entirety, so that no overactive imaginations mistake it for "hurt" or anything other than what it is.

Below, someone referred to a previous comment someone else made.

Then I asked where it went because I couldn't find it.

A responder likened me to having the newness here of a Neanderthal and said she had a bridge she could sell others who believed I was new.

The other said "Who said it had been removed?" - insinuating I was the author or ...?

Regardless, I still can't find it - and I asked not only because the first person mentioned it, but because I read it aloud to my fiance yesterday.

For the record, I've been to the job forums at this website years ago, but I had not returned until 02/27/2014, after my most recent transcription job had been replaced by EHR, and honest to God - I have NEVER commented on this forum before that day.

I have no need to comment under another ID - I clearly have no problem saying what I really think under this one ;)

I really don't care if you believe me, or even if you like what I have to say - but please keep it about what I have to say, and stop projecting your own need to passive-aggressively post under other IDs onto others, whom you assume must be like you and are too afraid to say what you really think under the same ID.

Ya know, I thought perhaps I'd gone about this the wrong way; that I mistepped with that "irrelevant" thread, so I accepted it and moved on with a positive thread below.

However, one of those responders mentioned above also encouraged me to go back and read how conservatives were attacked previously, bringing it up AGAIN.

I'm not sure what that has to do with not being able to find the comment anyway, but again, I get it - I believe you.

But I still think ugly has gone both ways - and I still don't care who started it.

Get over it - rise above it, and either do your best to change that or move on/leave, like I'm about to.

Because I tried to. below, but it seems all most here are interested in is complaining about situations without offering alternative solutions and hurling insults around.

We all resort to it, we're human - but that can't feel good, all the time, those of you who do so several times daily and actually are bordering on a near stalking-like obsession with every little thing Obama does. I'm not real happy with him either, but...dang.

I highly doubt you would say any of these things, face to face, in real life. So thank your moderator for allowing you to throw your crap around, as much as she lets you do.

For those of you who actually have manners, I thank you - your parents and grandparents "dun good", as we say in my neck of the woods. I commend your eagerness to discuss/debate rather than prove how superior you are and throw hate :)

For the rest of you, if you give love, you will sometimes get it back - but if you give hate, you will always get hate in return.

As I said, we all make mistakes in negativity, but it IS contagious here - and I don't want to catch that disease and am sorely tempted.

Yes, author of this original thread, you're right - "God Bless The USA".

However, the actual "fruits of the spirit", according to Galations 5:22-23, are: "Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

So I'd rather hang out with people that consistently exhibit these qualities, as not only are they a joy to be around, but they help me to be a better person, rather than just making myself FEEL like I'm a better person by tearing down Obama or anyone else.

By the way - the last time I checked, God was neither Republican, Democrat or Tea Party member. And though he may be disappointed by Obama, at times, I KNOW God doesn't hate Obama - he loves us all and we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Speaking of which, check out Matthew 18:21-35 regarding how much mercy a merciless servant will receive from their master - you know, who showed you mercy;)

Feel free to have my comment removed on various grounds so you don't have to read my "upsetting" words anymore and pretend yours aren't - but I'd be willing to bet others will return with a similar message, whom you'll probably also accuse of being someone else or me.

But.. what if it isn't?

Maybe we're telling the truth and it's you're just supposed to hear the message?;)

God Bless, truly - as true Christians are actually advised by Christ to bless those who curse

I'm afraid all of you are incorrect about Obama's stats on - deportation

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Wherever you are getting your information, it is either being reported correctly or is propaganda.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/19/the-real-deal-on-obamas-deportation-record/

"The Real Deal on Obama’s Deportation Record
by TANYA GOLASH-BOZA

Many activists and news sites have claimed that President Obama has reached or surpassed two million deportations.

The number two million is significant because when Obama reaches two million, he will have surpassed President George W. Bush’s record. Moreover, two million deportations exceeds the sum total of all deportations prior to 1997.

There has been some debate, however, over the accuracy of this claim. Let’s look at the numbers – provided by the Office of Immigration Statistics and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

First, please take note that I am using the more colloquial term “deportations,” whereas all of the figures below are from government sources that use the term “removals.”

President Obama took office on January 20, 2009. This is part way through fiscal year 2009, which ended on September 30, 2009.

That means Obama was in office for 254 of the 365 days in FY 2009. In that year, there were 393,457 deportations – a daily average of 1078 deportations. As Obama was in office for 254 days, we can estimate that he oversaw 237,802 deportations in that fiscal year.

Fiscal years 2010 and 2011 are the most straightforward. There were 385,100 and 391,953 deportations in those years. Obama was in office for the entire time, so we can add on those two years without any caveats.

Remarkably, the Office of Immigration Statistics has not released data yet for FY 2012, so we have to rely on the less reliable estimate from ICE, which is 409,849.

This gives us a running total of 1,424,704 deportations, through September 30, 2012.

According to a report by Michael Bender, “the government deported 343,020 people in the U.S. illegally from Oct. 1, 2012, to Sept. 7, 2013, the most recent Immigration and Customs Enforcement data show.”

We do not have data through the end of fiscal year 2012, much less up to date through today. However, it is reasonable to use the average number of deportations from October 1, 2012 up through September 7, 2013 to estimate the number of deportations up through today. The daily average during that time was 1003 deportations per day.

As of today (December 17, 2013), there have been 443 days since October 1, 2012. That brings us to a running total of 444,321 deportations since October 1, 2012.

Under the Obama administration, there have thus far been 1,869,025 removals.

If removals continue at this same pace, President Obama’s administration will reach two million deportations in 130 days – on April 26, 2014.

It is thus accurate to say that President Obama will surpass President Bush’s record on deportations – unless he stops deporting people well before April 26.

It is also accurate to say that President Obama has deported more people than any previous president except George W. Bush.

It is also accurate to predict that President Obama is on track to surpass, in just over six years, the sum total of all deportations carried out under the most recent Bush administration."

This is easily searchable. Stats are stats. So the source of your information is incorrect. Of course that doesn't stop irresponsible reporting because there's always someone out there that will believe anything if they want to.

Makes me wonder... - sm

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...if your numbers are including those who left voluntarily because the economy is so bad under this president that they voted for. Yes, a lot of illegal aliens voted for this president (because he promised them some hope and change, too). The election was rigged on many levels.

Those stats conventiently omitted - ...

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jtbbnm

What does jtbbnm mean? This is the second time I've seen it. - nm

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nm

They were derived the same way Bush's deportation numbers were. Does that - help? nm

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x

You should be afraid - spare us all the 40,000 pages - of "so-called"documentation

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conveniently forgot to list how Obama and his regime fudged the numbers...Oh, what a shock from the biggest liar of the year.

Not interested in your propaganda.

Did they fudge Bush's too? How far did they go back? How did they do it? Can you cite - some facts?thxNM

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x

We're not talking about Bush. - nm

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nm

Looks like that person was. - nm

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.

You might read the thread and realize that Bush was only used in the context of - historical comparison

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Not bashing or otherwise. History. We can't confine our discussions to this hour when discussing politics or policy because history is a major factor in where we are, where we were, and where we're going.

FYI, Bush in this case had a stellar record for deportation in the eyes of Republicans. But Obama is surpassing that. I don't think that's something to be proud of, but just because Bush is brought up, there's no need for the rote Pub knee-jerk reaction, "We're not talking about Bush."

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