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Ok, time to start flooding the phones!


Posted: Dec 11, 2009

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20091211/US.Health.Overhaul.Senate.Loophole/

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This would not be a problem... - JIG

[ In Reply To ..]
if people in this country would commit to taking better care of themselves. This country is full of sick people who refuse to take responsibility for their own health but instead eat unhealthy, refuse to exercise, smoke, drink, etc. and then expect the health care system to bail them out when they get sick by offering treatments at unGodly prices. Irresponsible people are the reason we are in the mess we are in. Glad I'm not part of that ignorant crowd.

agree with you - Min

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People with bad habits should be excluded from insurance. That would show them. Maybe they would shape up if we denied them medical care.

I agree totally... - JIG

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I see nothing wrong in excluding those who refuse to take better care of their health. If they want "procedures" and "medications" they have to first work at getting and staying healthy. Those of us who already do this are not the burden on the already overtaxed health care system. A lot of lazy, irresponsible, disease care-sucking Americans need a wake up call.
How can so many people be so wrong? - SM
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Have you taken a look at advertisements on TV and the internet? Have you seen the cost of food? Have you not realized that ~eating~ has been turned into the Great American Pass Time."

I am appalled I admit when I look at the number of obese people and how fat they actually are. I want to turn my head away when I see fat children waddling to the bus while their fat moms wave good-bye. Fat men in the work place struggling to move makes me grimace.

I lived on a ranch which provided beef and diary products. My husbands corporation spent huge sums of money on hormones, steroids, antibiotics to get the beef onto the shelf as fast as possibly. He used his run off water to flood his fields of corn and wheat. Residua from the cattle (hormones/steroids) were detectable in the water. Growing crops absorbed the elements. This is why I think we are all so hungry personally. I just cannot believe Americans are this glutinous. (sp?) Or maybe it is feast before famine as our bodies instinctly prepare for food shortages.

Alcohol and smoking - again billions in marketing - consume our product and good things are guaranteed to happen to you just like the commercial. Brain washing tactics because moving the product is really all they care about done at any cost.

Poor folks eat starch, grease for flavor, salt. Fast food for the busy people who work 2 jobs and spending time in the kitchen is impossible.

I just don't think you are accurate in your assumption that so many Americans are neglectful and ignorant. I really cannot believe this about the most compassionate people on the planet.
Yes, I have seen the commercials...sm - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
and I do not believe I am assuming anything. Coincidentally, like you, we (hubby and I) also lived and worked on ranches for over 28 years. I personally don't believe obesity/hunger is caused by hormones, steroids, or antibiotics. Disease...defintelty. We no longer eat meat or even dairy and we also had them furnished for 28 years. I never could get my weight under control until we left the ranch and I was in the early stages of serious health problems. We are healthier and thinner now than we were all those years working on ranches and eating beef and drinking milk from our milk cow. We do eat starches--potatoes, rice and corn are not fattening--so there goes that myth. The information, though slow to get out, is there for any who are interested. The problem is the majority of people are NOT interested in their health. They mistakenly believe that drugs and surgery are the answer---and that meat and dairy comprise a healthy diet. Even when the information is offered, it is ridiculed and refused. Ignorant....yes. Neglectful....possibly. Stubborn...definitely.
Inner city grocery stores - NJ
[ In Reply To ..]
There are a lot of poor people in cities (as opposed to 'burbs) without access to decent grocery stores. It may be possible to walk to a bus line, take an hour ride one way, do grocery shopping, and get back home on a bus, but honestly do any of us have to take that much time and effort to do the same thing?

What is available and cheap is McD's. For $5 you can get 5 items from the dollar menu. How much healthy food can you get for $5? When you have so little money that food is scarce, the choice will be McD's. And you better believe there are people who have a hard time putting enough food on the table here in the USA even though they work.

It is expensive to eat healthily in this country. Yes, there are people who bring it on themselves, but any blanket statement about obese people isn't going to fit all or even most of them.

NJ
It's far more expensive to be sick... - JIG
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If I have the choice to spend a little more to eat healthy or go cheap and eat McDs and then lounge around in doctor's offices and the hospital with heart disease, cancer, etc., I'm going to choose to spend a little more on healthy food. That should be a no-brainer but that's the American mentality these days. ;-)
Mentality these days - NJ
[ In Reply To ..]
If we all had crystal balls...some would still choose eating daily over possibly coming down with a health problem some future day.

Obesity and poverty are not mutually exclusive because it's not cheap to eat healthily. There are working people who struggle with getting food on the table here in the US. And there are plenty of unemployed or underemployed people, too. (My last employer replaced me with 2 part-timers just to be able to do away with benefits. People can work 2+ part time jobs and still struggle.)

Hunger is a real issue. Eating healthy isn't always possible when money is tight.

NJ
I disagree strongly.... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
You can "choose" to eat healthfully and you won't have to worry as much about future illness. I know....it's being done by many, many people every day. Meat, cheese, milk, butter, ice cream, etc. are far more expensive than vegetables and even fruit. If you want to get technical, beans, brown rice and potatoes are very healthy and cheap and combat obesity. Even when we were below poverty level, we managed to eat healthy. Any excuse will justify "needing" to see a doctor and, therefore, needing insurance.

I would much rather eat healthy to stay healthy than eat unhealthy and have to spend big bucks seeing a doctor. Your whole concept is just plain ludicrous...not to mention hilarious. ;-)
My concept - NJ
[ In Reply To ..]

I'm flattered that you suggest I thought of it, but I didn't. I have been reading studies on it, though, and what they say is very clearly true. Inner city dwellers don't have as much access to healthy foods and healthy food is more expensive.


It's obvious if you drive around a city, which I do. 


NJ

did you read it? - dnh
[ In Reply To ..]
You are all talking obesity, alcohol and smoking. The article is talking about major illnesses. Someone with cancer, perhaps with a genetic predisposition, and you are okay with annual limits? How about type 1 diabetes? Okay with limits? Perhaps rheumatoid arthritis? Congenital anomalies - PFO, ASD? Psychiatric illness? Who the ____ are you to decide who is and is not entitled to care and who should or should not have limits? And you would call someone else irresponsible? I would call you selfish and self-righteous. And wrong.
Need your meds ??? ;-) - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
Most major illnesses STILL can be chalked up to poor diet and lifestyle habits. Most cancers are diet related. Even type 1 diabetics have been helped with diet changes. RA is diet related. Depression is considered "psychiatric illness."_____ we're all depressed. Let's have a pity party. Most of us justify anything we acquire to "genetics." Hogwash.... There are exceptions (PFO, ASD) but, yes, there should be limits. That's why the health care industry is in a shambles. Everyone wants to eat their cake and have their "meds" too and cry if they don't get them. I would call myself strong and committed. Now go take your antidepressant and have a nice day ;-)
If arrogance were an illness, could we cure you? - elaine
[ In Reply To ..]
Genetics is not hogwash, psychiatric illness is more than just a catch-phrase, and most cancers are NOT diet-related.

I certainly hope you are never in a situation to see a loved one diagnosed with a serious, life-changing illness. And if you are, I certainly hope you are spared the self-righteous, small-minded indignation you feel so free to unleash on others.

A positive outlook may contribute as much to our wellbeing as diet and exercise. Should we limit your benefits because of your unhealthful negativity?
Excellent post! (nm) - Nikki
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NM
I believe.... - JIG
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genetics deal with eye color and the like, not propensity for disease. Our habits determine our susceptibility for disease. Most cancers are diet-related. I have already been in multiple situations where loved ones have died due to their bad dietary habits which they have refused to change. A very dear loved one died from MS and even though I believe this disease is caused from an outside stimulus (vaccinations/pharmaceuticals, etc.), I believe the progress can be slowed with a better diet. I know of people who have done it. Call me what you want...I'm trying to save my loved ones from their addictions. Yes, DEFINITELY limit my benefits. I stay healthy. You can have all my drugs and tests. I really don't want or need them.
Genetics - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]
Diseases like cystic fibrosis are most definitely genetic. Babies and children die from that disease every year. There are other genetic diseases I've heard of but can't recall right now.

I guess those careless babies and children should just die, huh?

Unbelievable.
Actually... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not quite sure of that either. My baby sister died in 1959 from cystic fibrosis. Myself and all 6 other siblings were tested. The gene wasn't even found in either of my parents. Go figure. People with cystic fibrosis are living longer lives today. Possibly doing without dairy as it is a disease of the lungs and congestion which dairy causes. When my baby sister was diagnosed, my mother had gotten the flu and had to quit nursing her for awhile. She fed her formula and the rest of us were all nursed for 2 years. She was later diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. Who knows??? Sometimes a cure is right in front of your nose but most people prefer to find other causes.
I doubt they had DNA testing in 1959, as they do today. (sm) - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]
And, yes, those patients are living a lot longer today because of the TREATMENT they receive which is very expensive.

And for the record, it doesn't only affect the lung. It also affects the digestive tract, as well. I know someone who has it and was diagnosed in her 50s after living a healthy life.

My mother developed and died of colon cancer in her mid 60s. Ever since I can remember as a child, her diet was the very low-fat, no red meat, etc. vegan type diet they recommend today to avoid colon cancer, yet it didn't help her.

This isn't black and white. A lot of areas in medicine are gray.

If anything like the above examples ever happened to you, I would hope that money wouldn't be an object in affecting your ability to live or die. The real immorality of medical insurance isn't the patient. It is the greedy profiteering CEOs who rake in millions in salaries and even almost a billion in stock options. When I watch TV, I always see ads from Progressive, GEICO, Travelers, Esurance etc., advertising auto insurance. Now, that's competition, and there isn't anyone complaining of rates for auto insurance policies the same way they complain about the scandalous rates for healthcare policies. It's because the health insurance companies have their own little monopoly going on. They're doing fine, but the people they're supposed to be "insuring" can barely afford their skyrocketing rates.
Outstanding post, Nikki! - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
I can not believe some people are so narrow-minded, so uncaring and lacking in compassion they can just keep rationalizing this garbage, as this poster is doing. Turning a blind eye and then trying to justify it into the ground. Sorry JIG-You are just flat wrong and your statements say a lot about your character, and believe me, it not good. Sad, selfish, blind to the plights of others, narrow minded.
I know of several doctors... sm - JIG
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who you would describe the same way you have described me... and they have saved lots of lives. ;-)
My mother... - JIG
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also died after being diagnosed with colon cancer; however, she died from the chemo treatments. Her cancer was small and after removal and having chemo, she developed a blood infection from the chemo treatments. Of course, your mother's diet is the same as they recommend today. All doctors recommend dairy for the calcium and meat for the protein. It's considered healthy...in reality, it isn't and it causes colon cancer. I'm sure you've seen the commercials and ads...drink more dairy to prevent colon cancer--what a joke!!! I'm not paranoid like most people. I don't even have insurance and don't want it...I would like to have insurance to cover me for accidents but I would never use my insurance for tests, procedures, and to run to the doctor with sniffles, colds and flu (which I never have anyway). I am concerned about accidents which can happen to any of us. But, I am not the least concerned about insurance to cover illness/disease that I can prevent. I work hard to protect myself from the diseases other people panic about--cancer of the colon, breast, prostate, heart disease, arthritis, etc. Few areas are gray. Most are black and white.
Just a clarification (sm) - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]

regarding your all-knowing statement about my mother: 


"Of course, your mother's diet is the same as they recommend today. All doctors recommend dairy for the calcium and meat for the protein. It's considered healthy...in reality, it isn't and it causes colon cancer. I'm sure you've seen the commercials and ads...drink more dairy to prevent colon cancer--what a joke!!!"


In the first place, my mother died in 1982The ONLY drink I recall seeing her drinking was either plain water or water with lemon juice. She was basically a vegan back before vegans and vegan lifestyles received much publicity. The time frame I was referring to regarding guidelines was 1982.  I don't recall what those guidelines were back then. The life she lived contradicted most lifestyles. She did not smoke. She did not drink. She did not eat red meat.  I believe today's guidelines would support a diet of this sort to prevente colon cancer.


Secondly, I have osteopenia and my hydroxyvitamin D was less than 4 last year. My doctor did NOT recommend dairy, apparently in opposition to "all" those doctors you write about (despite your assertion that you never see one). He recommended high doses of calcium with vitamin D, and I'm doing much better now.


You sound like you've got some stuff to learn.


 

Tay-Sachs? Sickle Cell? ALL genetic diseases - Nobody asked for them!
[ In Reply To ..]
Do NOT make blanket statements that only eye color and the like are genetic. I thought you were a medical transcriptionist so you should know better. Making such statements only makes you look ignorant.
What you believe about genetics is not the point... - elaine
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You don't "get" to believe what you want about genetics. Science separated itself from personal beliefs right after the Dark Ages. (That's why they were called Dark.)

I happen to agree with you (as does science) that a lot of disease is due to exogenous sources. But this it not the whole story, and people should not be punished or villified for becoming ill.

The healthcare system is not in a shambles because people are not as conscientious as you are.
I can believe whatever I want... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
If I believed that diabetes couldn't be reversed (according to doctors, research and the almightly science) my husband would be diabetic today. Sometimes you have to buck they system just to stay healthy. People should not be punished for becoming ill but they should be told they can make a decision to stay healthy or be sick and if they decide they want to be sick, then they should suffer the consequences of that decision. Most disease is brought on by our own poor decisions and refusal to make the right decisions. MOST, MOST, MOST... The health care system is in a shambles because there is no money in telling people that eating healty has a LOT to do with their health. The money is in drugs and surgery and those who prefer drugs and surgery far outweigh those of us who choose health.
something we can agree on... : ) - elaine
[ In Reply To ..]
I have to agree with you that "the money is in drugs and surgery". Our healthcare system is designed to treat illness, rather than promote wellness - and be handsomely reimbursed for doing so.

I didn't mean to challenge your right to believe that disease can be averted or altered by healthy choices. I agree with you. (I think science does, too.) I meant to challenge your right to believe whatever you want about scientific facts, like the nature of genetics.

I just don't think that limiting benefits is appropriate, and I certainly don't think it's necessary.
Great post! - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
I find this poster to be downright shocking in their posts, and downright cold, and you said it, arrogant. All I can say is one word-Karma!
So you're in favor of rationing, which this basically is? (sm) - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]
You could get sick, and in a matter of hours, your entire life could change. Should your care be rationed and cut off at a certain point? I don't think it should be. Having said that, I believe most insurance companies already impose lifetime limits on those they "insure."
I have the occasional... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
cold, rarely however. I haven't needed a doc in over 10 years and, in fact, work very hard at staying out of their offices. If I get ill, it will be MY fault and I know how to correct it. I don't need "rationed" care. I don't need care unless a drunk driver hits me. I know how to keep healthy and do a great job. Limit away... ;-)
I find your attitude shocking, JIG... - elaine
[ In Reply To ..]
Do you really believe that if you fall ill, it will be your fault? Or that you will only require care if you are (God forbid) struck by a drunk driver?

What if you were struck by a sweet little old lady who couldn't afford glasses?

What if you were the victim of a terrible accident and your treatment exceeded $500,000?

Do you REALLY think it's appropriate for there to be limits on insurance benefits?
Or you had a child born with Down syndrome - Colleen
[ In Reply To ..]
or cleft palate? Or a grandchild?

What if you developed breast cancer?

What if you had part of you pancreas removed so that despite healthy living and an excellent diet from birth you ended up with diabetes? (That is precisly what has happened to my mom, BTW. She now has leukemia as well.)

Do you REALLY think it's appropriate for there to be limits on insurance benefits?
sm... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
Breast cancer is diet related. I am not concerned in the least about developing it. The definition of "healthy living" is different for everyone. Most people's idea of "healthy living" includes meat and dairy which is directly related to acquiring diabetes as well as a host of other diseases. Leukemia has been linked to dairy as well. Most diseases are linked to a diet of animal foods and most Americans believe these 2 products are "health foods." Yes, there should be limits when people refuse to follow a healthy lifestyle. It has already been proven that animal products bring about disease. Most people just refuse to hear it.
I'm not talking accidents... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
I'm talking about conditions that can be prevented and reversed by our choices ONLY. There should be limits for those of us who refuse to take the necessary steps to keep ourselves healthy.
What will you do when your words come back and bite you? - When the
[ In Reply To ..]
JIG is up, will you change your name to KARMA?
LOL...not worried... - JIG
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`
Famous last words - :)
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x

But it is job security... ;-) nm - JIG

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`

I SO disagree with this statement. - elaine

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I am afraid you are mixing apples and oranges.

The fact that some people do not take care of themselves has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the cost of treatment for serious illness or injury is astronomical and financially devastating.



I do agree that the cost for treatment.... - JIG

[ In Reply To ..]
is astronomical and utterly absurd!! That does not change the fact that most people abuse the system by refusing to prevent disease by taking better care of themselves. The system is overburdened with people who don't have to be there. Costs go up in accordance with need and most people feel the "need" when they actually don't need it. They NEED to change their diets and lifestyle to lessen the burden.
I don't believe the system is... - elaine
[ In Reply To ..]
overburdened by people. I believe the system is overburdened by the system itself.

A finger film and four stitches costs over $1,000. There's no reason for that. We are a global superpower. These services need not be regarded as rare commodities.

wasn't this one of the main things... - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
that health care reform was expressly supposed to fix, people going broke, losing homes, etc., or being unable to get care because the care was too costly? Next will they decide to deny coverage for preexisting conditions 'cuz they are too costly? Where's the reform in this? Thanks Colleen. I will be one of the people contacting my reps about this.

Preexisting conditions... - JIG

[ In Reply To ..]
can be cured. Why put up with a health condition you can reverse/cure just to ensure you have health insurance? The whole concept is ludicrous. How 'bout the concept of, "Let's try to get rid of a condition before we consider care for that particular condition?" We could save billions to be spent on those who really need care, if the majority were interested in getting and staying healthy.

that's kind of a leap - cj

[ In Reply To ..]
You would not consider anything a pre-existing condition or consider anything incurable or irreversible? And you think that any illness, condition or disease is the fault of the person who suffers from it? Wow, you are just so wrong - SO WRONG. I personally have a cancer history. I am cancer free now, but I can't buy insurance because I had this previous cancer. How is that okay? I suffered through it, treated it, and am fortunate that I am now considered cured and cancer free. But now I cannot buy insurance because I had this condition several years ago. Even though I don't have it now. And you think that is okay? So if I have a recurrence and my bills are astronomical, as cancer treatments tend to be, it would be okay to you for my family to lose our home, to be bankrupt by medical bills or for me to just die since I can't get insurance? Many people live with a variety of acute and/or chronic conditions which cannot be cured and they are denied insurance coverage because of them. It's just wrong.
I have a suggestion for those who do find this morally - reprehensible
[ In Reply To ..]
What I have started doing is everytime I get an email or anything from any of the centralized Dem organizations (like the DNC) requesting donations for reelection campaigns I have been returning them with a note stating that I will no longer donate one penny of my money (not that I as donating much to begin with-no money) to them because I do not want any of my money going to the reelection of the so-called "Blue Dogs" who are making this so problematic, and that I wil in the future donate directly to the campaign of "worthy" candidates. I then send a copy of this to the Blue Dog Dems. If enough people do this, maybe it will help. One can only hope.

I have to say, it constantly amazes me how cold, callous and lacking in compassion so many Americans have become about this. What has happened to us that we can so easily turn our back on others and not see that what hurts one can potentially effect all of us. IMO, health care is not something you can put a price tag on. You do not know why that person is overweight or this person drinks or that child is overweight. I worked as a medical assistant for 10 years and I can tell you it is never as cut-and-dry as all of that. I respectfully request that those of you who responded in favor of limits go back again and read your post. If you have a heart, you will see how heartless you sound.
Fabulous post! I couldn't agree with you more. (nm) - Nikki
[ In Reply To ..]
NM
You don't know all the facts either. This plan will CUT - Medicare.. you okay with THAT?!!!nm
[ In Reply To ..]
x
Insurance... - JIG
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I am only concerned with having insurance that covers me if something happens to me beyond my control--a drunk driver hitting me, someone shooting me, stabbing me, pushing me and injuring me and accidents a wind pushes me into a building and I break my arm, etc. I think ALL people deserve this type of insurance. But there should be limits. People who absolutely refuse to quit smoking, eating McDs and sitting on their behinds instead of exercising should be restricted with limits. Those who work at staying healthy should get breaks. This is the way I feel and I don't see anything wrong with it. People need to face reality and get their priorities in order. The majority doesn't want to---a pill and surgery will suffice.
Figure this out... - elaine
[ In Reply To ..]
What if I eat well and don't smoke, but I work at a toll booth?

What if I'm a vegetarian, but I sit on my butt transcribing medical reports?

What if I am welcome to come to this country, but welcome to live only in certain areas, where grocery choices and transportation are limited?

It's a complex world. We are a huge nation. There is enough money to keep our system working if our system works well.
Most conditions can be cured... - JIG
[ In Reply To ..]
and even better, prevented. It's not what society wants. Drugs and procedures enable most to continue with their bad health habits. People need to get their priorities in order. And #1 is certainly not their health. Many, many conditions can be prevented, acute and chronic. Do your research and I can give you names of docs who will tell you the same thing.

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A friend of mine posted this on my Facebook page.  She knows I like this comedian.  I laughed so hard during parts of this tears were rolling down my face.  Keep your eye on the woman who is translating, she is hilarious.  I hope it brings a smile to your face, it certainly brought a smile to mine.  Have a good day everyone.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iBl8Kcg7h0 ...

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I'm thinking of starting a blog to chronicle my descent into homelessness and madness or my miraculous recovery from this poverty-stricken existence that I've been living for the past seven years an MT.  I'm really not sure which way it will turn out, but I truly enjoy typing and writing when I have control over what words show up on the screen without any kind of QA involved in the process.  Would anyone read my blog? ...

Jeb Is Off To A Dubious Start--maybe He Just Jun 03, 2015
He won't declare and he obviously doesn't think before he speaks. He is going to be in a legal quagmire from the start. The New York Times reported that a growing body of legal critics are eyeing the Jeb Bush camp for their flagrant exploitation of our country’s election laws. The Times observed that “federal law makes anyone who raises or spends $5,000 in an effort to become president a candidate and thus subject to the spending and disclosure restrictions.” But since Jeb ...

Amazing What You Uncover When You StartMar 29, 2011
from one little internet search. ...

Is This The Start Of Taking Our Guns Away?Mar 03, 2011
...and did th POTUS in an interview with Calderon that he will do something to stop the flow of guns to Mexico? What do you think he has in mind? But first this story from Illinois: In a showdown over the privacy rights of gun owners, the Illinois State Police are refusing to release a list identifying all firearm permit holders in the state after Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan determined that the information "must" be made public. The dispute, which soon could come before a judg ...

The Start Of A Long Road - Jan 28, 2011
My marriage has been rocky for many years, ever since my husband quit work to build his own home-based business six years ago after a car accident.  I had always supported him in his wish to make his own business, it had been his dream for years (we've been married 24 years).  I even agreed to become the breadwinner while his business was getting off the ground, which was possible because I think I have the last well paying MT job in the country.  Anyway, sharing an office fo ...

Head Start Billions Apr 06, 2011
‘Head Start’: The $166 Billion Fed Ed Failure   “Head Start,” the flagship pre-kindergarten program introduced in 1965, has been a $166 billion failure. That’s the upshot of a sophisticated multi-year study just released by the Department of Health and Human Services. An earlier iteration of the study, published in 2005, had found a few modest improvements in the language skills of participating students while they were enrolled in the program. But by t ...

What We Hope To See In January - Start Your Day Oct 17, 2012
link   ...

Seasonal Movies: I'll Start. Apr 01, 2013
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Do You Want Obamacare? Start Filling Out The (sm)May 17, 2013
forms now and hire an accountant - Article in Forbes  - link below ...

This Is Silly, But I Start Off My Mornings With This Oct 27, 2013
I used to be able to sing all the words when I was a teenager. Can't even get half way through it now! ...

Great Way To Start The 4th Of July Jul 01, 2016
Definitely will bring a tear.  What a powerful voice.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUvVhWqXiWo ...