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McCain, Graham blast Rand Paul

Posted: Mar 7, 2013

McCain quoted heavily from a Wall Street Journal editorial that slammed Paul’s filibuster on the Obama Administration’s drone use, including a line that said “If Mr. Paul wants to be taken seriously, he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in college dorms.”

McCain called Paul’s concern that the government could kill any American with a drone “totally unfounded.”

Graham also chided his fellow Republicans for joining Paul in his filibuster.

“To my Republican colleagues, I don’t remember any of you coming down here suggesting that President Bush was going to kill anybody with a drone, do you?” Graham said. “They had a drone program back then, all of a sudden this drone program has gotten every Republican so spun up. What are we up to here?”

Good for them for not getting caught up in the circus!

;

BOA's AJ - Cindy

[ In Reply To ..]
Every administration, Republican or Democrat, should be scrutinized. It was difficult to listen to Eric Holder's testimony yesterday and feel he was being straightforward. We have a right and a responsibility to question the Executive Branch. There is no harm done even if Senator Paul's allegations are unfounded. There is irreparable harm done when our democratic republic is run as if it were a banana republic. The present administration has "evolved" from wanting known foreign terrorists to be tried in our civilian courts rather than military tribunals to obviating the need for due process altogether. The party who called enhanced interrogation torture now has a kill list. If we are going to deprive certain Americans of their due process rights, then we need to do it honestly by amending the Constitution. For what it's worth, I'll proudly be considered a Nut Job right along with Senator Paul.

and so will I stand proudly with him. One dinner with (sm) - LM

[ In Reply To ..]
the President and we get this? WTH is going on here? Something in the food? McCain and Graham should just shut their clap traps. Holder is obviously a liar and a slithery snake.

"Paul has admitted he trusts that President Obama - would not use such authority, but he said

[ In Reply To ..]
he worries that it might be abused by future presidents who aren't as scrupulous." This is from an observer of the filibuster and Senators' McCain and Graham discussing it in the Washington Post article linked below.

You know, we really should question whether there is a need to sacrifice our civil rights and protections to gain a small additional margin of safety from some ****** criminal group--and, yes, that's exactly what Al-Qaeda is relative to the might of nations.

I know what Paul said, and I also think I know what he really meant. - LM

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Paul's a muckraking fool and the others are hawks. The issue - isn't WHICH tool is used to spy and murder

[ In Reply To ..]
it's what constraints are in place to protect people from abuse by their own government. It's all about the law, and insisting that no one is above it.

USED TO BE, if the government wanted to spy on someone it had to apply to a court for permission. No longer. After a few people died and buildings were damaged in a terrorist attack, many watching from the safety and comfort of homes and work across the nation happily gave up that right.

Forget about being willing to fight to protect freedom. Half this country couldn't be bothered to just say, "No, I think I prefer to keep my rights, thank you."

I would like to know who supported - the Patriot Act

[ In Reply To ..]
Because no one in my crowd was happy about it.

And respectfully, 9/11 was much more than a "few people." It was a few thousand people. And the buildings were not so much "damaged" as destroyed. I get your point, but I don't think downplaying such a horrible attack helps anyone.

Far more than that died in hospitals today from - negligence and far more died on 9/11

[ In Reply To ..]
from car accidents. Right? How many days do we sit around worried about the need to cancel the Bill of Rights so we can be slightly safer next time we drive to the grocery store?

The population of the U.S. is well over 300,000,000. Divide 3000 into that. Now look at the number of soldiers' lives we tossed away so casually in Iraq. (Yes, casually--how much time did we each personally spend researching and learning whether we needed to invade? For most of us, literally far less than we would spend trying to decide on a new color for bathroom towels.)

If we're going to be excited about 3000 dead people, I suggest we look at those 4000+ boys we had die in Iraq (we'll just round down and leave the injured out of it)--and not just the 9/11 victims. Surely they're just as deserving of some unreasoning national hysteria?

But for really smartening up, I suggest we start by admitting that most of the national media living in New York City and wringing their hands at the notion of their employers decentralizing to awful places like Atlanta and Seattle ("Things will never be the same") cheer-led a national panic designed to make us willing to do anything to protect their lifestyle.

I was completely against going to Iraq - and the Patriot Act

[ In Reply To ..]
And I'm well aware that there are many, many casualties every day, but it doesn't negate the tragedy of 9/11.

I agree with you that we gave up too many freedoms with the Patriot Act. But the thing is, *we* didn't vote for it. I didn't want it. No one I knew wanted it.

We rolled. The GOP insists on regarding Democrats as - an enemy, so we split and did nothing. BUT

[ In Reply To ..]
this forum for years has been full of people making excuses for what the GOP did under the Bush administration. You may have opposed it, but most did not. They looked to their chosen authority to make decisions for them and supported whatever that authority did.

Today these same people are claiming to be against drones, but they had no complaint about them under Bush. It's really only Obama/Democrats they're against. They don't like him playing golf. They don't like his style of pardoning a turkey. They don't like him appointing a cabinet member--any cabinet member. They object to his making a speech--any speech. Now it's drones. Tomorrow it'll be whatever they read in some blog. Rush really is apparently comparatively isolated and abandoned on that island he moaned about, but many others have taken over his role of telling people what to be against each day.

And so, since anywhere from 22 to 40% and more of conservatives--depending on the circumstances--do look to their authorities to tell them what to think, what to accept or reject--here we are.

You know, if you don't like these people defining conservatism--nationally, not just this board--you might try speaking up more often. And you might even refuse to be joined with them in one power block, the way you have for the past 30 years. Together we could and would have stopped Bush. Not that he could have gotten elected in the first place without your alliance with his base.

Who supported the Patriot Act? Do you mean our reps or just us peons? - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
If it those who represent us, they ALL supported it; both parties. Co-Sponsors to the bill were half Democrats, half Republicans.

The final vote on the act was 98-2 with 1 nay (Feingod) and 1 not voting (Landrieu).

If the people didn't want it, they should have shouted from the rooftops, but most did nothing.

Most probably didn't even pay attention to Congress back then. I know I didn't. At that time, the government was respected and people (me included) figured they would do what was best for the people, as they are supposed to and as is written.

Times have changed, especially with all the info we want at our fingertips. People do not stay silent and watch the government keep secrets like before. They have learned to speak up --some louder than others -- some not in the best interests of the country -- but they still speak up.

That is the senate vote - BillyJoe

[ In Reply To ..]
House vote a little different

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml

apparently us peons split too in 2005

Partisanship is a major factor when it comes to public opinion about the Patriot Act. More than a third (37%) of Democrats think it goes too far in restricting civil liberties, as do 4 in 10 political independents (40%) -- but only 12% of Republicans think the Patriot Act goes too far. Most Republicans, 61%, believe the Patriot Act is "about right" in trading off protection from terrorism with protection of civil liberties.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/17392/Liberty-vs-Security-Public-Mixed-Patriot-Act.aspx

And those that spoke out against were accused of wanting to "undermine security".

CHENEY: The Democrats in the House overwhelmingly opposed, for example, legislation that authorizes the terrorist surveillance program that's let us intercept pending attacks against the United States, opposed overwhelmingly the legislation that set up the military commissions and authorized our ability to run a sophisticated interrogation program against Al Qaeda.

Democrats in the Senate voted overwhelmingly and tried to filibuster the Patriot Act. The fact of the matter is, there are fundamental differences, and Nancy represents what I think is that side of the Democratic Party that has not been supportive of and does not believe in a really robust, aggressive prosecution of the global War on Terror.

HANNITY: You mentioned that and you mentioned some very specific things, the Patriot Act, the NSA surveillance program, conferring rights to enemy combatants, I guess would be another issue. If the Democrats are in power, I guess then it becomes a fundamental question: Is America then less safe?

CHENEY: Well, in terms of what I think needs to be done to defend the country, I think we're better off because the president's made some very good decisions and because we've had majority support in the Congress. It's been a Republican Congress that has provided that support. And, as I say, the vast majority of Democrats on some of these key issues have voted against the tools that we've used to defend the country successfully now since 9/11 against further terrorist attacks.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224828,00.html

Well, isn't the Senate vote the last prior to hitting the President's desk? - Truthhurts

[ In Reply To ..]
This is why I gave the Senate votes on the Patriot Act and it did show that all in Congress passed it except 2, so this was a bipartisan vote.

It was always my impression and in watching C-Span, that the Senate is the "buffer" zone between the House and the President.

If the House writes and passes a bill, it goes to the Senate. If the Senate doesn't like it, they add to it, make changes and send it back to the House for their approval, or they out and out kill it.

If the Senate passes a bill they wrote, it goes to the House where the House can approve, add, or send back to Senate for their approval again. But doesn't it always go from Senate to President?

No matter - BillyJoe

[ In Reply To ..]
The bill is first passed wherever it is originated. I dont really see your logic. If someone in the House voted against a Bill, yet someone in the Senate from the same party votes for it it does not cancel out the vote of anyone in the house. They are 2 separate entities.

Bottom line from what I see in my link is there were more democrats against than republicans. And I said earlier, anyone against it was painted as "undermining security" or "terrorist sympathizers". Sadly as proven many times congresspeople are more worried about their reelection or promises made to financial backers than its citizens.

McCain, as we've been told here time and time - again...- sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Is old and senile. now all of a sudden someone wants to quote him?

Rand Paul did what he felt was right. I commend him for standing up for what is right for the American people.

Anyone who thinks killing innocent people is okay needs to have their head examined. Especially when innocent people are being called terrorists.

Obama called republicans terrorists, and people in his department are calling the tea party people and veterans terrorists. So guess that means anyone not in the democrat party and who don't vote for democrats are terrorists.

Well now aint that a nice comforting thought.

Was it okay to kill innocent Iraqui citizens? - pot and kettle

[ In Reply To ..]
and btw, when did obama call republicans terrorists?

Surmising that non-Democratic party people are terrorists might not be a really rational conclusion. Is that what's going down in the tea party/right wing underground?

My post was not about Iraq - don't change the subject - and to answer your question

[ In Reply To ..]
From an article 12/7/10 "It’s tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers unless the hostage gets harmed. Then people will question the wisdom of that strategy. In this case, the hostage was the American people, and I was not willing to see them get harmed."

http://patterico.com/2010/12/07/obama-compares-republicans-to-terrorists/

"Obama: Republicans Using Terrorism to Win Elections"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502443_162-4188486-502443.html

"“Between 2002 and 2009, the leading terrorist groups in this country were the Republican Party, and the presidential administration of George W. Bush.” - Keith Olberman

http://leftofthemark.com/topic/republicans-are-terrorists

"Democrats are spending the day backpedaling from using words like “terrorist” and “Satan” to describe their opposition to the GOP victory" and

Joe Biden triggered an outcry Monday when he agreed with House Democrats as they described Tea Party Republicans as “terrorists.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gop-tea-party-labeled-as-terrorist-deal-called-satan-sandwich-53221/

Then there is this:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/25/huffpost-scrubs-line-from-story-calling-republicans-%E2%80%98terrorists%E2%80%99/

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/01/04/hes-back-alan-grayson-accuses-republicans-of-terrorism-on-first-day-of-new-congress-n1479059

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