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For those claiming false accusations below


Posted: Nov 13, 2012

First, let me give you a moment to hit the dislike button since you know my moniker.  Here, I'll give you a moment....

For those who jump on the bandwagon with false allegations and hateful remarks about sedition you all need a history lesson.

Here is an article below:

There is no evidence that secession was illegal or prohibited by the Constitution, and in fact there is almost overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that secession was a legal, constitutionally sanctioned act.


It appears that the original intent of an unquestioned right of secession was established by the Founders, took root and "flourished for forty years," then later a "perpetual Union" counter-argument developed out of political necessity when Northern states began realizing their wealth and power was dependent on the Union and its exploitation of the South.

The 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

There was no constitution prohibition on secession, nor was there a constitutional sanctioning of any kind of federal coercion to force a state to obey a federal law because to do so was to perpetrate an act of war on the offending state by the other states, for whom the federal government was their agent.


The arguments for the right of secession are unequivocal. There is the constitutional right based on the Compact Theory, and the revolutionary right based on the idea that a free people have the right to change their government anytime they see fit. The Compact Theory views the Constitution as a legal agreement between the states - a compact - and if any one state violates the compact, then the entire agreement becomes null and void.

The revolutionary right of secession is based on the Declaration of Independence and the philosophy of Thomas Jefferson and John Locke, that

whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, . . .

 

Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.2   

 

These words come directly from the Declaration of Independence. This passage was also used, verbatim, in South Carolina's Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union. A similar sentiment was expressed by Abraham Lincoln in 1847 on the floor of the United States House of Representatives:


Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.

The Tribune used the exact same passage used in South Carolina's Declaration of Immediate Causes, which comes from the Declaration of Independence, reiterating that the "just powers" of government come from the "consent of the governed" and "'whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and institute a new government,' &c., &c.", adding that:

We do heartily accept this doctrine, believing it intrinsically sound, beneficent, and one that, universally accepted, is calculated to prevent the shedding of seas of human blood. And, if it justified the secession from the British Empire of Three Millions of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861.


Full article below.



http://www.bonniebluepublishing.com/The%20Right%20of%20Secession.htm

;

So do it! What is stopping you except you are - in the minority? nm

[ In Reply To ..]
.

We aren't going anywhere - who is spewing hate?

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We are not communists, we love this country. I know it's tough for you to believe, pull your head out of Rush's deferment and look around.

Your posts get disliked because they're typically hostile and - dishonest, not because of a different opinion.nm

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x

agree - nm

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Please try to refrain... - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
...from calling those of us who don't share your beliefs Communists. It's not true. I hate to tell you this, but you have to share the planet with other people, and a lot of them don't think as you do...that's life. Why are you telling us to move to North Korea and China just because we don't think as you do? Why do you want to secede from the U.S. if "people ARE free (your words, BTW)." You're the one who has the big secession plans - have at it! It'll be interesting seeing how you organize a government from scratch.

Don't tell me what I can and cannot say - because....

[ In Reply To ..]
and I won't tell you what you can and cannot say. Are you the moderator? No. Did I specifically attack any individual poster here? No. And the reason I said you would be happy in North Korea or China is because you are against anyone with a difference of opinion that goes against the wrong going on in our government today.

P.S. - Do tell me, where in any of my posts do I show any "succession plans".

The reason I say communist on the board is because that is the type of government posters wish to have. Posters prove it in all their posts. Anyone who has a different opinion than they do they all like to bully up on. That is why they all would be happy in North Korea or China. They are not allowed a difference of opinion and they would be jailed for it. They'll fit right in.

But this is not those countries. You all show you evidently cannot handle difference of opinion.

This IS a free country (at least for now) where we ARE allowed to have a differnce of opinion. Just like you didn't agree with anything Bush did, there are those that don't agree with what is going on in this administration. The last time I checked this was a free country and we were allowed to disagree.

And if you think I plan on signing any concession form???

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html

You know what Sarge - There is no point in even

[ In Reply To ..]
answering you. You seem incapable of having an adult conversation. Have a wonderful evening. I'm celebrating the one week anniversary of President Obama's victory.

You spent the first half of your post... - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
...outlining "the right of secession," so I made the reasonable assumption that you were pro secession. You're not exactly clear, as the second part of your post seems to advocate an uprising or revolution against the government, so you can understand my confusion. As for telling you what to do, no, I suppose I can't do that, but you continually chuck out the word "Communist" as an epithet against those on this board who are not right-wing conservatives, and all it shows is that you seem to have a limited knowledge of that particular form of political ideology. As for having differences of opinion, I'm fine with that. I just wish you and those like you could discuss our different opinions without resorting to namecalling and rash generalizations.

Just curious, Sarge - klg

[ In Reply To ..]
What is your definition of communism?
Not Sarge but common dictionary resource book - definition
[ In Reply To ..]
Communism
a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
b. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.
Does this describe - your beliefs?
[ In Reply To ..]
Sounds a lot like what the "majority" want.
In communism... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
...the means of production and distribution are owned by the state. This would include factories, communications, power plants, etc. There is no private property in a communist state. Taking over an ailing company whose collapse might ruin the US economy is not communism. Being an advocate of a social safety net for the poor, the elderly, and children and wanting to regulate out-of-control banks does not make one a communist. Wanting separation of church and state does not make one a communist. Just because Rush Limbaugh tells you that the president is a communist does not make him a communist. It may make you feel good to froth at the mouth and throw out "communist" as an insult against those of a different political persuasion, but that doesn't make them communists. It makes you seem rather ignorant (lacking knowledge or information), however.

"The last time I checked this was a free country and - we were allowed to disagree."

[ In Reply To ..]
Right. So why are you calling us communist because we disagree with you? Isn't that our right? You are not following your own "logic."

The article you posted doesn't surprise me - a bit...

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Obama has a way of dealing with his "enemies".

the poster did NOT tell you what you can or cannot say - lol...

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She kindly asked you to refrain. That kind of thoughtful request does not even approach the bellicose nature of your typical argumentative style.

You are about a week too late - The side calling us communists

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and socialists and mooches and leeches and wanting to oppress women lost the election. We're past that now. Find a new shtick.

Uhh yeah....sm - JTBB

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"Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better." Yeah...we just did that four years ago by kicking out the pubs. "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government." Yep...we just did that too....so...what exactly is your point?

The majority has spoken, which puts you in the minority, a place that doesn't "have the power" to "shake off the existing government." Know what that means? It means the one who needs to be packing their bags is you. Have a nice trip.

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