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Can someone explain to me.

Posted: Aug 25, 2015

I need to do some studying up, I guess. I keep hearing that Bernie Sanders is a socialist and that people are flocking to hear him speak and support him. I guess I don't understand how socialism works and I need to understand it in a nutshell.

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democratic socialism...see link - Bernie Sanders

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MTs (workers) -vs- MTSO Corporate - Nutshell

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Socialism seeks to protect and promote the workers by keeping corporations from reducing us to slave labor.

Bring jobs back, safe working conditions, fair wages.

Believe "Citizens United" should be repealed (Supreme Court action which allows corporations to be considered "a person" and purchase of legislators through huge political contributions.)

Think about the "socialist" programs of Social Security, Medicare, highway system, sewer/water, airports and public transportation, public educations, pollution standards, fair labor laws, utilities. Many of these things are a combination of private and government.

Yup. That Socialism is pretty scary.

Squirrel.

All of those things are dependent on capital or money, - proving socialism is a type of

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government, because someone in government will determine who gets what and how much and who to take it from.

The Social Security program is a forced government program for instance, thinking they can better manage your money than you can.

Someone once famous said, the problem with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other people's money.

Imagine a world with pure capitalism - squirrel

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Pretty much white males control the capital and corporations. Imagine if there had not been laws put into place for women and minority rights, it would be much worse.

You definitely would see "death panels" when the slaves outlived their usefulness.

People would only learn what was needed to perform the labor that is needed or the soldiers for private militaries so that the owners could sacrifice their soldiers to increase their wealth.

The capitalists would have their own police. If any workers got out of line and talk about bettering themselves, they would probably meet with an "accident".

Not a world I would want to live in.

Do you think that is extreme? What you are saying about socialism is the opposite end of extreme. I said in my post that it is a mix of private and public. You must have missed that part.

Sorry, nothing is pure black and white.

Free markets are dependent on the character of the - people involved. A mix of

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private and public is the true definition of fascism. The private sector owns it but the government controls it. Like the car companies.

We haven't had a true free market since Woodrow Wilson. FDR outlawed the private ownership of gold. He devalued the dollar like what's going on now. On top of that we now have high national debt. Soon there will be price controls and shortages. We'll run out of things to redistribute.

Like history? Check out the working conditions - sm

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that the labor unions were up against in 1915/16. The corporations would hire their own police to beat and kill the workers.

Check out the character of the slave owners.

There is a reason for socialism and you just hit the nail on the head when you said capitalism is dependent on the character of the people involved.

Fast forward 100 years later, who benefits the - most in labor unions? The

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leaders. A perfect example of socialism.

How many union leaders earn a six figure salary?

I wish MTs had a union - see message

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It is the only way to change the abuses of the MTSOs. I have been protected by the union I belonged to in the past and it was a good thing.

As far as union leader salaries. Should they not be compensated according to their abilities. Even Trump says you have to hire "Great People." Yet people are always complained about the quality of government workers, but then turn around and want to pay them peanuts.

What do the CEOs/management of Nuance and M-Model make? Do they really deserve so much more than the average production worker?

I sure am glad Social Security has not been privatized - Wall Street

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They way the market is getting clobbered, I would gladly embrace more Socialism.

The money I have lost the last couple of days has gone directly to the those capitalist hedge fund managers.

No one has to invest in the stock market. It's your money, - you can buy gold, put it under a mattress,

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invest in real estate. Once you give control and responsibility away, the govt has the control.

So you invested in the stock market? Does that - mean you put your capital

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at risk in order to make money?

Who aren't paying their share of taxes - either

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sorry, restated your post before I read it about social security being privatized.

It was said yesterday, glad Social Security - isn't privatized and on the roller coaster

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Just imagine all of our parents and grandparents riding the stock market ride with their privatized Social Security accounts.

Socialism is also dependent on class envy to sell - it.

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nm

Capitalism is dependent on an abused work force - MT

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nm

Where do these ideas come from? Compare the standard of living - of workers in capitalist and socialist economies.

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Funny how it's all relative. We have a far greater proportion of households comprised of "ordinary workers" who have multiple TVs, phones, internet access, multiple cars, heat and air conditioning, clothing and shoes, food, and educational opportunities. We drive on decent roads. We have reliable utilities. Millions would consider that we live in absolute decadent luxury.

Instead of focusing on the fact that there are lots of people who have more than we do (all this "income inequality" garbage that's being shoved at us), maybe we should spend a little more time thinking about what we have - and it was capitalism that did it, not socialism.

It's way too easy for the left to peddle envy, dissatisfaction and entitlement these days. I blame it on the fact that way too many people don't have any idea how most of the world lives.

Much of it comes from professors like the U of W one - discussed below making $170,000 a yr

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teaching how wonderful socialism and communism are. I wonder if they ever teach the consequences of high taxes and regulations, not to mention union wages, on companies. Eventually the companies will move out of the US to other countries to stay competitive.

A lot of socialism is emotional, with words like "fair" and "inequality." It doesn't honestly have to produce a result.

Most of your list is supported by Joe Public - Capitalists do not pay taxes

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nm

No, my list is supported by people having jobs, and - capitalists provide jobs.

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Incidentally, millions of Americans are capitalists, and most are not wealthy (you seem to confuse wealth with capitalism, and capitalism with greed). Millions of Americans invest in the stock market, which is a capitalist economic activity. It's called their RETIREMENT PLANS, or their 401K's, etc.

I've heard people want to come to America because - even their poor are fat.

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No kidding

The "poor" here have television, air conditioning, cars, - computers, food, medical care, etc.

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Not so with much of the world.

We are talking democratic socialism here. sm - Bernie Sanders

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Let me list for you many of the "Democratic Socialist" contributions to our nation:
Medicare
Medicaid
Medicare Part D medications
Social security
Child Labor laws
40 hour work week
Overtime pay
Family leave
Bankruptcy forgiveness of debts,
Labor unions
Workplace safety
Public fire departments
Public police departments
The national parks
Wildlife preserves
Clean air act
Clean water act
Anti pollution laws
Public education through grade 12,
Public water works
Public utilities for gas and electric power,
Public sewer system,
Public transporation trains and subways,
Postal service,
Safe food standards
Safe Perscription Drugs
Construction building codes,
Hydro electric dams and power stations,
Interstate highway system,
The Affordable Care Act

So where's the utopia? - NM

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nm

Wow, a communist on a mission. - NM

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Nm

Oh, we could discuss this list for hours, but in any event - it begs the question.

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We're supposed to just look at your list and say "Well, gee, those things are great! I sure like having a postal service, so I guess I'd better become a democratic socialist (one of those terms, incidentally, which was invented for a gullible public and has virtually no meaning)!"

It's difficult to know where to start with your argument because it's wrong on so many levels, so I'll just have to pick one, and that is this: Absolutely NONE - and I repeat, NONE - of the items on that list was achieved through socialism - "democratic" or otherwise. With the list thus destroyed, the argument collapses and there's no need to take up the individual cases.

Socialism is a type of government and capitalism (free market) - is a type of economy. The primary

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difference is who owns the capital.
In free markets like America, capitalism allows private ownership. Socialism ultimately does not.

Capitalism can lead to unequal distribution for many reasons like the character of the people, lack of education about free markets, and of course motivation and hard work.

Socialism leads to the equal misery of all, as it depends on someone actually making the money needed to re-distribute. Those who hold the reins always get richer. They decide who gets what, how much, and who to take it from.

Ask yourself this, would you rather spend time at your - favorite restaurant or at the BMV?

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I always remember hearing that and also in socialism you come to bread, in capitalism bread comes to you. A few little sayings I always remembered from my youth.

In a true free market, there are no bailouts, no subsidies, no protected markets. It's allowed to correct itself.

Do you want a world without a DMV? - see message

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No licenses or titles. I guess there would be no way to track ownership of vehicles. The roads and bridges are in bad enough condition. Anyone could drive without a license--blind people, drunks, people who would decide they did not need to know the basic rules. What about the car insurance proof?

OK.

I think the point was waiting in line. - Holy Cow.

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nm

Who benefits from socialism? The politicians promoting it. - benefit the most. At first it seems

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like a good idea but eventually it runs out of money. Take an honest look at Social Security, Medicare, and all the rest of the social programs. They're broke. Better yet, look at Greece.

Take an honest look at Venezuela. - NM

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nm

Take an honest look at the Scandinavian countries of Europe - You betcha

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Highest wages, best education, best health care, happiest people with a great standard of living.

Nasty old socialists.

It's all in your prespective. Sweden is taxing itself into - oblivion AND you have an entire

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government protecting you from any responsibility! It's great!

What happens when they run out of other - people's money?

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nm

TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You seel one and buy - a bull. your herd multiplies

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and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.

MODERN AMERICAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. You sell one cow to buy a new president of the United States, leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release. The public buys your bull.

AUSTRALIAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

FRENCH CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

JAPANESE CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create clever cow cartoon images called Cowkimon and market them worldwide.

GERMAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat only once a month, and milk themselves.

BRITISH CAPITALISM: You have two cows. Both are mad.

CANADIAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows. Come to think of it, they look more like a pair of moose - in fact, yes they are. One speaks French, one speaks English. One fights to create a new country, the other won't let it. They both play ice hockey rather well.

ITALIAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You break for lunch.

RUSSIAN CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

SWISS CAPITALISM: You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you. You charge an outrageous fee to others for storing them.

CHINESE CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim full employment, high bovine productivity, and arrest and detain without trial the journalist who reported the number of cows.

Saw this on a humor site.

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