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Brigham Young's great-great-granddaughter, now 71, on

Posted: Oct 23, 2012

"A direct descendant of Brigham Young, Sue Emmett left the church (at 55) because of the very values she says would make Romney a frightening president. She speaks exclusively with Jamie Reno.

Sue Emmett is Mormon royalty. Her great-great-grandfather was Brigham Young, the founder of Salt Lake City, first governor of Utah, and president and prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) from 1847 until his death in 1877."

Article here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/07/exclusive-brigham-young-s-great-great-granddaughter-on-mormonism-and-mitt-romney.html

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Your dates are wrong. In 1857 he was 56 - IMANMT2

[ In Reply To ..]
and in September of 1857 he was the leader when John Elder and the other church members attacked a wagon train dressed up as Indians. It was called the Mountain Meadow Massacre. I know because my great-great-grandmother was a survivor. It's kind of a family story and the joke is (since everyone on that train was wealthy) we helped build the Tabernacle. The massacre left 2 small girls and their 50-yo illiterate grandmother in Arkansas in the Baker family - everyone else was killed.

My great-great grandmother wouldn't allow peppermint candy in her house (they had had to hire a man to go to utah and get the few children who weren't killed -babies were found with their skulls crushed by boot heels - words of the Brevit Major who filed his report with Congress and who was sent to discover if it really took place - they picked them clean and didn't bother to bury them). She wouldn't allow peppermint in her house because the 12 or so children who had witnessed the slaughter under a flag of truce after a 2-week stand off, were made to live with mormon families. She would hide from hers and scrunch herself under the bed up against the wall - they couldn't reach her and would try to entice her out with peppermint candy. Hence her aversion. The families complained about the chidren being heathens, not praying, cursing, hitting, and spitting on them. Elizabeth Baker, I named my daughter after her. It was reported/rumored that when Elder asked during the stand off (about 2 weeks) what should be done with the wagon train, he (B. Young) answered, Do what you will. And they slaughtered them. Some of the young mothers wouldn't give up their babies so when the women and the older children were killed, the babies died, too. They had separated the men, the children to be saved, (the mormon age of innocence is up until 8 years old) and the women and the rest of the children in another group. First Elder under a white flag said they had gotten the indians to stop attacking them, convinced them to lay down their weapons, then prayed with the people of the wagon train, then they opened fire on the men and used clubs and sticks and arrows on the women and children. Supposedly, the indians from the Paiute reservation helped attack the group of women. This was September 9ish, 1857.

In May of 1857, Parley Pratt, after being released in Oklahoma Territory for theft of clothes of children of his 12th celestial bride (Eleanor McLean) (there were no laws regarding kidnapping children back then) whom he met while doing missionary work in San Francisco and enticed away from her husband, Hector McLean. After the courts didn't help him, McLean tracked Parley Pratt down (great-great-grandfather of Mitt Romney) found and killed him in Arkansas after chasing him from California. When word got back to Utah that the people of Arkansas had killed a very beloved member of the mormon church they were very, very angry. Missourians had run them out of Missouri. There is a race in Columbia MO, where you chase Parley Pratt (he once escaped from jail there). I think it's a fun run and some more serious 5K and 10K runs. The wagon train and my family were from Harrison, Arkansas. So, I think it safe to say when the mormons in utah discovered this wagon train had people from Missouri (everything went through St Louis back then) and Arkansas, their fate was pretty much sealed. My grandma told me that her grandmother told her it was white men dressed up as indians, not indians, that attacked the wagon train. Which is why under a flag of truce John Elder was able to trick them into laying down their weapons. Wagon trains would pay for a permit and rest a couple of weeks in Mountain Meadow before starting the really arduous journey over the mountains.

John Elder was hung, convicted by the testimony of 2 church members who left the church, escaped prosection for their part (and there were many men involved in the murdering and raping and brutalizing of the people of the wagon train), and moved to California and started over. And although there was much speculation that B. Young was not only aware of what was going on in Mountain Meadow, actually condoned it, no evidence could be found to hold him accountable.

There is a story that there was a teenage girl who survived for a while out in the wilds, with the indians feeding her, after the massacre but that Elder had talked with the chief about her.. the chief had been quoted as saying it was a shame to kill her since she was so pretty. The last time my great-great-grandmother saw her older sister two men had grabbed her and were dragging her off into the bushes. My grandma said she was fighting them and throwing her head around and her braids were flying wildly in the air. Other accounts mention a naked girl begging for her life telling one of the church members,"Mister if you don't kill me, I'll love you forever." Conclusions being she had just been raped and was telling them they didn't need to kill her, etc., etc.

An indian boy gave a report that the shooting and the screams could be heard all over the countryside and the noise went on for a long time. It was about 134 people murdered. So, even locals not involved would have known about it. There were rumors of wounded children in shock and one who was on his mother's lap had had his arm injured so badly it hung by the skin. Another story is of a small boy trying to help his dying mother by pulling arrows out of her (until he, too, was killed). The Salt Lake City newspaper ran the story in 1857. Then in 1957 did a centennial reprinting of the original story. My grandmother had that newspaper. There's more but this is long enough. Suffice it to say when they got the 2 girls back, they had night terrors for years and were not the same children who embarked on the journey with their parents, cousins, a ward of the Bakers, and grandfather. The girl's dad wanted to go to Oregon, and it was a source of contention in the family. Cap'n Baker (56), his dad, was against it. My grandmother told me after many arguments he finally told his son (35 or so) he would help him sell off his possessions and get him an oxcart but he was going to accompany him and his family because it was a very dangerous trip. I think he had made the trip twice to sell livestock and other things. That's how almost all of the family came to be on it. The Bakers had a large farm in Harrison.

I would like to go to Salt Lake City. There is a carriage on display there donated by the Elder family, it was taken from the wagon train. It is a unique carriage. My great-great-great-great-grandmother was awarded 2 or 3000 dollars for damages by the mormons. To pay for loss of personal property and the livestock (there were cattle and horses to be sold, and extra oxen) and other goods that were going to be sold there. IT is documented that the wagon train was noted to be obviously wealthy by the occupants of the countryside it traveled through. It is reported she made her mark to show receipt of the money.

My relative, Cap'n Baker, did not captain this wagon train. It was called the Fancher-Baker wagon train. My guess Fancher was wagonmaster. They neither circled their wagons at Mountain Meadow or made camp close enough to the spring to help them during the weeks-long seige. They felt safe at Mountain Meadow. Two runners were sent out for help but were captured by the mormons and killed.

Usually, this isn't an issue to me, but when a mormon runs for president and not just any mormon but a descendent of the philanderer who got himself killed in Arkansas and in a chain reaction caused the deaths of innocent men, women, and children, it just seems more dishonorable to me. A stain that can never be removed. Killing children is reprehensible I don't care who sanctions it and there is no justification even if people in Arkansas had killed Parley Pratt and not an irate husband from California.

In Missouri in 1970-something, they finally struck a law that had made it not a crime to kill a mormon. You have to wonder what breeds that kind of hate. Illinois, Missouri, then Romney brags that his family ran from poligamy laws in America to Mexico and lived until the Mexican war broke out, then decided to run back to America to avoid that. Of course, Parley Pratt's running is well documented and covered several states. ;)

This is fascinating stuff. - Sounds like

[ In Reply To ..]
the bulk of it is taken from oral family ancestral histories, my favorite source. I haven't read much on this subject, but my sister, an independent who leans GOP-ward, was obsessed with it right after Mitt became the apparent nominee. She submerged herself in it for about a month, then called me late one Sunday night to tell talk about her decision to vote for Obama this time out, her main concerns being their treatment of women and the specter of secrecy.

Now that you've piqued my interest, can you recommend a good juicy book on this? Would love to read more of this kind of thing, based on personal eyewitness accounts.

I did some digging back in 2005, thought I would - IMANMT2

[ In Reply To ..]
try to find the old farm in Harrison but never got that far. I found the letter the Major Brevit filed with Congress instead of giving to his CO. Which, speaks volumes to me. He was very biased against mormons, though, possibly after finding the evidence of the carnage left scattered over the prairie. There was a man who went and interviewed witnesses while they were still alive and he published his book in 1940 something. You can get it as a download off the internet if you can find it. He is dead, now.

The mormons have written books ad nauseum trying to vindicate themselves in this matter. They put up a marker at the site 10 or so years ago and descendents on both sides showed up. I didn't know about it. The Fanchers have a website with photos. What I've read by the mormons alarmed me because there were so many parallels between theirs and the muslim religion. They have prophets who talk to God, their treatment of women, holy wars, segregating themselves, being above the laws of the land, man's law, etc. I tell people that and they look at me like I just grew a third eye. :D I'll do some digging in my notes.

I grew up with my Grandma Bille (Willa Nevada - I think their geography was off) telling me the stories. My cousin who is older than me by a generation (my parents were 40 when they had me) has even more information and my grandmother's copy of the centennial newspaper. She is the one who told me about the peppermint and that Elizabeth had some quirks.

Funny story. My dad's family (not related to Bakers, but married the great grandaughter of E. Baker), his mother was sitting on her porch one afternoon, out in the country, she was probably 4 foot something, watched this man walk up the road until he came to her property. He climbed over the style (uninvited) and walked up to where she sat on the porch. I think he wiped his face with a handkerchief and said something like Good day madam. Hot day for a walk. I wonder if I might leave some of my tracts with you (mormon pamphlets). She told him (very unfriendly I can imagine), "Yes sir, you may. Right back the way you came, through my yard and over my style and off my property." I think he did just that.

Fascinating family history. Horrible too I read about the - Mormons being run out of Missouri once, but

[ In Reply To ..]
it was "generic" history, nothing personal about it. Your story makes me feel almost as if I could reach back just such a short time and see these people. Glad to be safe in my armchair today, though.

It is a relatively small insular community, not too old, and a - lot of Mormons chat about

[ In Reply To ..]
their family histories and current lives on the web. I'd think it'd be a gold mine for those who love oral ancestral histories.

Besides that, Mormon wives have some busy websites where they chat about their daily lives too, ex-Mormons have others where they talk about their lives and problems they had within the church. They're sad. From my experience, most Mormons don't have even one friend outside the church community, and family and friends are told to avoid anyone who isn't totally commmitted, so if they have to leave they lose everything.

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