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The list of things Obama didn't know (sm)
Posted: Oct 29, 2013
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"Help fight liberals by donating today..." - I'd rather fight partisanship instead.
[ In Reply To ..]
So what you are saying is, you want us all to come (sm) - OP
[ In Reply To ..]together and support this President. All these things that he has either lied about or was ignorant of, these are okay with you? Try discussing this instead of posting pictures of the flag. Kumbaya and all that is great, but we need a leader, not a liar.
United we stand, divided we fall... - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
That was much more succinct than my - response below. :)
[ In Reply To ..]and exactly the point I was trying to make.
No. That is not what I said. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I was noting the blaring partisanship of the website you sent me to and made a comment about it.
It made me think that if we as a country are going to fix our problems, we would do a better job of it if we worked together, instead of trying to tear each other down.
I posted the flag because it represents the UNITED States of America, and we would be better served to live up to the "United" part.
As far as the president, I'm well aware of his faults, just as I was aware of the faults of previous presidents. I don't think he is any worse than most of them, and I believe he is far better than many.
Whether or not you feel the same way, I hope we can be polite about it.
I believe there are some rough times ahead for (sm) - OP
[ In Reply To ..]this country, and it would be nice if we could all come together - rather it will be NECESSARY. I have what I consider to be well-supported beliefs about this man, however, and don't think he and most of the country have the same common goals. We will see. Whether you like the site or not, if you read the article, we can discuss or you can refute each claim. Don't shoot the messenger.
OP, all cabinet and intelligence officers are extremely - powerful people who have giant jobs
[ In Reply To ..]to do. Given the longstanding practice of plausible deniability, PLUS all the presidents who weren't as smart, as educated and experienced as those under them, just not up to the job, I'm never happy to hear a President "didn't know" and certainly never just believe it.
However, the cabinet and intelligence officers run their departments under the authority and general direction of the President, with occasional specific instructions, and only report what they believe he needs and wants to know. Necessary SOP, no shenanigans involved. Inevitably every president is surprised and dismayed at some of the things millions of federal employees do during their tenure; many ongoing employees are far more interested in building their own power than serving their country. And always will be. Really not knowing is a real problem for cabinet secretaries and their department heads too.
So, for me, I'm never happy at "I didn't know," but not auto-alarmed at it either. Certainly at this point you and I are obviously taking our information from very different sources. We could almost be on different planets -- mine where there's nothing new going on and we're no more likely to collapse than we ever were.
What would make me very unhappy would be to come to believe that the President had lost CONTROL of his presidency and that those under him went rogue and DECEIVED and deliberately kept the president in the dark, taking actions the President never intended, or perhaps just didn't fully understand.
Every president has to worry about this happening, and we saw it during both the Reagan and Bush II presidencies, IMO because of a combination of both willingness to have their underlings ignore laws while keeping them plausibly denied and of themselves being too easily deceived. We have not seen anything like that -- yet -- during this presidency.
Yes, i felt the same way when Bush was installed - into the presidency
[ In Reply To ..]You said: ...we need a leader, not a liar
If we had had leadership instead of *liars* when Bush and Cheney were at the helm, we would not have spent trillions on a fake war, earned untold numbers of new enemies, and lost tens of thousands of American soldiers to death and destruction.
The republicans do the same things. (sm) - Libby
[ In Reply To ..]I've received literally HUNDREDS of emails from democrats, hostile, angry and advising advising that if I donated $3.00, then everything is going to be all right.
It's the "same-old, same-old" bundle of propaganda. I will sign their petitions, but I won't donate any money.
Fight Ignorance - Shel
[ In Reply To ..]Fight the 'defense of ignorance'...I didn't know that? Did I do that? What is that? Who is that? I saw it on TV with you guys....translation, "I have absolutely no idea of what is going on in my own administration."
All presidents lose when they have to say they don't - know. It's far from a freeby, even if there
[ In Reply To ..]isn't much of anything to uncover. Both parties love to be able to maneuver an opposing politician into this position. So the GOP scored points here.
Bottom line is, though, although they can get people worked up about it, they know Obamacare's moving ahead, and at this point the problems that show up with the implementation are simply being used as ammunition to attack the opposing party.
There are other issues still to be fought over and that can still be won, or at least have losses minimized, budget, immigration, etc. So, for the smart players at least, if not some of the clueless amateur doofuses we send to Congress, the current fight isn't about Obamacare and the supposed problems of policyholders at all.
I See A Pattern Here - *Seriously
[ In Reply To ..]“Americans expect their president to lead, not feign ignorance when the going gets tough...." – Matt Gorman, NRCC Spokesman
When pressed for details regarding the ideal President, Gorman went on to say that he longs for the days when President's feigning ignorance would be a thing of the past. The days when a President meant what he said and said what he meant. The days when a man like President Bush would confidently declare to the American people:
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
"Ah, yes," Gorman went on to state, "give me the good old days when a President did not feign ignorance but actually was ignorant. And the days when the going got tough, a President did not feign ignorance but swore to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. They just don't make them like Reagan anymore. The guy was the perfect leader. We gave him his marching orders, and he did what he was told and said what was on the cue cards."
Arms for hostages? "I do not remember," said Reagan, "I do not recollect." Now there was a patriot who knew where the buck stopped. You raise taxes on the middle class, and lower them on the rich, and the buck stops there in the upper class.
Truly hopeless. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
I'd suggest you read up on the concept of - plausible deniability
[ In Reply To ..]It's a term coined by the intelligence community during the Kennedy administration for the practice of deliberately withholding information from senior officials, including the president, in order to protect them from repercussions in the event that illegal or unpopular espionage or investigative agency activities become public knowledge. The practice involves the construct of loose, informal power structures and chains of command that can be denied if necessary.
Attempts to put limitations on the practice were addressed in the Hughes-Ryan Act of 1974 and the Intelligence Oversight Act of 1980, but were ultimately ineffective due to purposeful vague wording and loopholes. Below is a link to an interesting article relative to Reagan's plausible deniability that became evident during the Iran-Contra hearings back in 1987.
Nothing new found here in this "Complete List" of whatever. It's been going on for quite a while under a dozen or so presidents from both sides of the fence ever since the US spy apparatus was first established.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-07-22/news/mn-3416_1_plausible-deniability
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