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Half of America In Poverty?

Posted: Jan 2, 2012

Recent reports suggest that almost 50% of Americans are in poverty or at a "low income" level. The claim is based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that includes health care, transportation, and other essential living expenses in the poverty calculation.

The concept of "low income" is controversial. It has been defined as earnings between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, a claim which, if true, would place every American family making $50,000 or less at a near-poverty level.

Conservative organizations believe the whole 'poverty' issue is overblown. The Cato Institute blames LBJ and Obama for reversing a declining poverty rate. Forbes blames the calculations. The Heritage Foundation argues, "The average poor person, as defined by the government, has a living standard far higher than the public imagines...In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave." The case for a growing "consumption equality" is alternately defended and denied.

With emotions running high on both sides, we need to take a balanced look at the available data to determine how well the highest-earning family of the poorest 50% -- a family with a $50,000 income -- can survive. (The maximum individual income for the poorest 50% is about $30,000.)

Start with taxes. It is frequently noted by conservatives that the richest 1% pay most of the federal income taxes, and indeed they paid about 37 percent in 2009, more than the poorest 90% of Americans. But only the richest 5% of Americans have experienced income growth since 1980. And during that time, their tax rate has dropped from 34% to 23%. As for the 3 percent rate paid by the poorest 50%, the Tax Policy Center sums it up nicely: "The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax."

More relevant to the poverty issue is that federal income tax is only a small part of the tax expense for lower-income families. According to a study by The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, the poorest 50% paid about 10 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes (the richest 1% paid 5 percent). Congressional Budget Office (CBO) figures reveal that the bottom 50% pays about 9 percent of their incomes toward social security (the top 1% pays just under 2 percent). CBO also shows that the bottom 50% is paying about 2 percent of their incomes on excise taxes, a negligible expense for the people at the top. Another year of Bush tax cuts will chop another 1-2 percent off the taxes of the very rich.
So total taxes for the poorest 50% are 24 percent of their incomes (3% + 10% + 9% + 2%), as compared to 29 percent for the richest 1% (23% + 5% + 2% - 1%).

Other significant expenses for low-income people, based on the most conservative estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, the National Center for Children in Poverty, the Carsey Institute, and the Economic Policy Institute, include food (10%), housing (27%), transportation (6%), health care (5%), child care (8%), and household expenditures (5%). Expenses for insurance and savings and entertainment, although important to most households, are not being included here.
Energy costs hit low-income families especially hard, taking about 20% of their incomes. At the $50,000 income level the burden is closer to 12%, as generally agreed upon by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the American Gas Association.

Total expenses for the richest family in the bottom half of America?

24% taxes
27% housing
34% food, health care, child care, transportation, household needs
12% energy

hat's 97% of their income. The richest family among 70,000,000 households is left with just $1,500 for a car, appliances, a TV, a cell phone, a loan repayment, an occasional night out. It comes to $30 a week, barely enough to take the family out for a pizza.

Critics bemoan the amounts of aid being lavished on lower-income Americans, making dubious claims about $16,800 in government funds going to every poor family and families with $90,000 incomes being classified as "near poor."

The fact is that only 4,375,000 families (out of 70,000,000 in the bottom half) received Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) in 2010, for a total expense of about $36 billion. Current federal budgets include about $350 billion for food, housing, and traditional 'welfare' programs for needy children, elderly care, and energy assistance. This averages out to about $400 per month per family.

Another fact is that earnings have remained flat for most people while productivity has grown 80% since 1980. If a $50,000 family had received a fair share from their contribution to America's growth, they'd be making $90,000, and they wouldn't need a dime from government.
Conservatives complain about the TVs and refrigerators owned by low-income people. But it's the height of insensitivity to admonish people who are trying to survive in a perversely unequal society.

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/12/27-0

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Thank you! Really excellent, well-written article - sm

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There are so many conservative (rich people) talking points out there designed to make the average low-to-mid income people turn on each other, blame each other, and make them believe they DESERVE to be where they area. Now we need another article explaing how the rich were able to exploit the economic situations of the last 30 years.

Conservative does not mean "rich". It just shows - your judgemental opinion, unfair.

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I am conservative and not in any way rich!! The 1-pct did not cause the 99-pct to not have money. This kind of brainwashing from the left is going to turn our nation into Greece.-very sad.

Conservative - concerned

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Glad to see someone that actually understands what conservative means. I agree with you 100%. I have been completely turned off by OWS and their demonization of the 1%. They DO NOT represent me at all. You should see the destruction they caused here in my city along with expense beyond comprehesion to us taxpayers. None of the Tea Party rallies were like this. Not to mention, the interference with those of us who wanted to get to work every day and support our households, AND THEIR RIGHT TO ACT LIKE TOTAL IDIOTS. After all the mindless, hateful comments I have seen, you are a breath of fresh air and reason!

Yes. I have friends in Oakland who are ready to move due - to OWS. They dont represent me either.

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What an embarrassment, and I am sick of them causing the taxpayers the hardship. Whatever their message is supposed to be is lost in their thugery.

1% not cause 99% to have money? - flossy

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So the fact that I made more 10 years ago working for a medium sized transcription service but barely scrapping by now is NOT due to the corporations buying up all the small services, slashing wages, eliminating benefits and sending work overseas so as to increase their executive's wealth? that is certainly how I see it. If you cannot even see the disastrous effects upon your OWN life of this corporate manipulation, that is sad and points to the end of our way of life.

1% percent versus 99% - for flossy

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You talk out of both sides of your mouth. Below you support Obama blindly and then complain about the MTSOs. You need to read the description of socialism posted on this site and then get your head out of the sand.

What we have here - is

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a perfect example of resorting to emotionally charged, juvenile and essentially incoherent personal slams in an attempt to avoid answering a thoughtful, simple and straightforward question which is totally relevant to the subject at hand. Get a clue. There is nothing inconsistent or duplicitous about supporting Obama or allegedly complaining about MTSOs within the context of political dialog about OWS/1% vs 99%. The question nailed you and you know it, yet still you felt compelled to throw down some completely disconnected, unrelated, petty, puny little pot shot that positively reeks of robotic right-wing propaganda, straight off the wingnut boilerplate. A more intelligent response would have been dead silence. At least that way you could have escaped with a little dignity. IMO, this response is utterly ridiculous.

what we have here - sm

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Obviously, you don't bother to read all related posts..you're too busy being verbose with words inappropriately used. Knock yourself out..speaking of "ridiculouse". It is actually comical to read your long-winded garbage.

What we have here is - sm

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Too bad you did not follow your own advice as to an intelligent response. Dead silence (n your part). You sound like a "typical" lib.

What we have here is - sm

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one post that tells it like it is, and two replies that illustrate the original point to a capital T. Well done.

There is MORE work headed overseas because of - Obama wanting to raise their taxes!

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You need to see the REAL reasons behind what is happening. These corporations can leave this country and do better than staying in their home nation. Now, that is sad, and we have lost jobs due to this. Also, I was never hired by a poor guy.

Well, then, let them go. (sm) - Have had enough

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They've already destroyed our economy and are deliberately withholding jobs so they can pocket the money they receive from their enormous tax breaks.

Their tax breaks should end, AS SCHEDULED, and they instead should receive tax credits for jobs they provide IN THIS COUNTRY, no offshoring allowed.

And just how DO you know you've never been hired by a poor guy. There are thousands of businesses just starting up where the owners are really strapped for funds and don't make much money themselves, once they pay their bills, employees, benefits, etc.

To let them go - sm

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Since you don't care, hope your job is the one to go or your husband if you have one. Yeah, I am really sure someone poor has enough money to support your sorry behind and their own family. Your grounded in reality---NOT!

Stop mischaracterizing what I wrote. (sm) - sm

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I never said I didn't care. You're making that up and trying to attribute that to me when I never said anything of the sort.

I'm just tired of corporations holding jobs hostage so they can continue to get their tax breaks.

Again, their tax rates should expire, AS SCHEDULED, and instead they should be rewarded with a tax credit for each job they create in the United States -- no offshoring.

Thanks for hoping that my job is the one to go. It just reflects conservative bitterness and hatred.

and that sorry behind snipe is a sure sign of a - very short fuse. GOP camp supertense, not happy

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They've made that clear on this forum over the past few days with all this mass PMSing. Your last line was right on the money.

Wonder why none of them are posting anything about Iowa and its outcome? Maybe Santorum's last minute shoestring campaign surge has them worried about its underlying message, that after all they can no longer rely on electing the best leaders that money can buy. This turning tide does not bode well for the long term future of Citizens United campaign finance reform and Bernie Sanders seems to be poised in the right place at the right time with just the ticket to move that process forward.

speaking of sorry behinds - You have OBAMA -GAG

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Words of great wisdom straight out of the potty mouth party's playbook. - Impressive. nm

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nm

Words of wisdom - - Thank you, I have learned well from the liberal po

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SARC is evidently WAY beyond some folks' grasp. - nm

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SARC is evidently way beyond grasp - - yeah evidently yours

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It appears that - you have a great

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deal of difficulty coming up with even the remotest semblance of an original thought. We already know this is a dead thread since no one can come up with a single GOP initiative addressing income inquality, as was falsely claimed in the previous post. We get it. You hate libs, love to troll and think that repeating something over and over and over and over and over again turns falsehoods into truth and is a viable strategy to convince others to support your views. The reality is that you have nothing to bring to the table when it comes to intelligent informed political dialog. Take your last best pot shot and enjoy getting the final word. We're done here now that your inability to substantiate bogus claims has been well established.

It appears BLAH BLAH BLAH - YOU LOVE TO HEAR YOURSELF

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Wow. Youv'e got playing dumb down to an art form. - zzzzzzzzz.......

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Wow-dumb to an art form - sm

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Seems a lot of you have the corner on dumb or just like to read your dictionary and post. It is SOOOOOO childish to keep on with your ridiculous comments. You ALL need to get a life. If anybody wants proof of anything, pick up newspaper, search the net. There is plenty out there for everyone, lib/conservatives, Dems/Repubs/Inds, religious/not religious. You have actually shown your childishness; appear that you would much rather behave like a child. Good riddance to you all! There are so many more intelligent posts here, discussing REAL issues. You might want to follow THOSE THREADS.

Nothing wrong with asking for a little substance - sm

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to back up questionable statements. Can you name any genuine proposal the GOP made to address income inequality that the president, former speaker and senate majority leader refused to discuss? Are you able to direct us to the invisible "sorry behind" post? Reasearching something that doesn't exist is a waste of time, wouldn't you agree? I have no problem with someone trying to point that out.

Potty mouths- - Again must be referring to intolerant Dems

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To Impressive - Great wisdom

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The sorry behind comment came directly from a previous poster making snide comments regarding the Repubs. Your your comment goes to the heart of the Dems snotty comments...not to the followup poster.

Not under this thread. Care to share which post you are talking about? - Was it written in 2012?

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How far back in the archives would one have to search to find it? Your zero credibility rating could get a big boost if you would be more specific. Just sayin...

Not under this thread- another nasty poster - Evidently you can't read-pretty easy to follo

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Been then you would need an IQ above the temp outside. Keep posting. Must really get go going. Nothing better than reading your idiotic comments.

Unwilling to cite the nonexistent post, are we? - sm

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Even my 6-year-old neice can figure out what that means. The incoherence of your comment suggests I'm not the one here suffering from cognitive challenges. "Been then you would..."? "Must really get go going?" I shutter to think what your transcription looks like.

The best job I ever had was working for a small MTSO. - me

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She wasn't completely poor, but she certainly wasn't anywhere near rich. She was kind and caring and tried to hold out as long as possible before market forces forced her to close. And she gave her employees health insurance too.

Sorry, I always find the "I've never been hired by a poor guy," kind of stupid and irrelevant. I think it really hurts your argument. You folks need new talking points.

Bravo! Excellent post. Thank you. - Have had enough

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Average Indian salary per year: $475 - That is why they go

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They will work cheaper than we will, and the corporations and executives are rewarded for showing big profits. Even in the current downturn, the corporations and executives made record profits and US workers still lost jobs. How can that be? (C'mon now, don't overthink this and give yourself a headache.)

1% versus 99% - Flossy - concerned

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Go back and read who passed the law allowing companies to go overseas (clinton) and he also passed tax incentives for them to do so. Anger towards the 1% is misdirected. I do pretty well for myself, but I have chosen a lifestyle most do not want. I have no credit cards, no loans. I live on a budget and do not buy anything until I have the cash to pay for it entirelyight (including my car). No one bothers for missed payments, late payments, as I have none. I vacation No matter how much money I make (and I do fine), I live on a budget. I am not my neighbor's responsibility, nor my govt's. I vacation yearly (not to Hawaii for $4 mill). I do not begrudge ANYONE that has more than me. I know how hard I work for what I have and the lifestyle I have chosen, which works great for me. Because I am debt free and can live as I choose, I have no desire to support any percentage that lives beyond their means, regardless of what they make. My biggest income drain is my taxes and I am sick and tired of the govt waste with them.

response - flossy

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I dont resent others doing well. I do resent corporations manipulating the government through lobbyists, campaign donations and massively distorted advertising campaigns designed to get their candidate in to do their bidding. I have not gone anywhere vacation in 20 years. I have never made a claim for govt money through unemployment, food stamps or welfare. I do not begrudge those who need them, though. I want a country where we take care of the needy and do not screw individuals out of living wages so the honchos get $30 mil a year bonuses.

Conservative=once reasonable people brainwashed by Fox News. - theyareworshipersofmammon nm

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Conservative - once reasonable people - Hmmm-like liberals not smart enough to turn on Fox

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nm

Baloney!. Right now, Shep Smith is on Fox...and he - is a liberal. Nice pathetic try.

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Fox News Channel has some conservative shows, but the NEWS is just that, very fair. I am sure you never watch it, though. Obamalovers can always watch MSNBC, the hateful network.

To baloney - Conservative

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Good point. I am sick to death of some people posting mean and hateful comments regarding anything they thing is conservative, Republican or yes, even Fox. When they are responded to in kind, they feign outrag, i.e., what? How can you say those things about me, why the name calling? I have seen someone disagreeing with their point of view acused of untruthfulness, lack of intelligence and the latest today "potty mouth". This was all after I had seen Obama-lovers all over the board for days saying despicable things about anyone with a different expression of their beliefs and being so disrespectful to anyone that posted anything favorable in regards to a Republican that it was sickening. Obviously, people will never agree on certain issues, but the intolerance on this board is very, very slanted. Glad to see your post.

Baloney - re: Shep Smith/Fox - stats

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Stats out today regarding viewer participation. Fox beat all other stations by a 3:1 margin. Check out the millions tuning in (yep that includes the intelligent libs, Dems and anyone else wanting the truth). All others went to MSNBC, HSNBC (barely made it on the leader board) and CNN. Combine the last 3 and you still cannot hit Fox viewership numbers....Numbers do not lie, but spinners do!

Thanks very much for posting this. I believe - sm

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everything in this article, though I was shocked to learn just who falls into the poverty level and who doesn't.

Again, thanks for posting this. I definitely "like" it.

What a joke. "Unequal society"? I know people on - food stamps who look more wealthy than me!

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...and I have never asked for a thing from the Govt! Obama and his socialistic view with class warfare as his weapon is rubbing off on too many people. It will be the eventual death of our nation. We are headed there now.

Unequal society - mbmt

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Okay, I get that you hate President Obama. That does not convince me that he is using class warfare as a weapon, nor am I convinced that his views are any more socialistic than mine or yours for that matter. I do not see him as one bit threatening, but obviously you do. Why is that? Do you not see that there is a need to address poverty in this country?

Of course we need to address poverty. Obama likes - to make it all the rich guy's fault.

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The man is incredibly shameless. I have never seen another president in my lifetime act the way he does. Class warfare is his reelection strategy. If you cannot see that, well, you really must see him as genuine. His views are totally socialistic. That is what his policies are all about!! Also, I have seen poverty. Try Haiti. I have been there. People in poverty in the USA in no way compare to poverty-stricken people in Haiti. There is NO comparison, and Americans are so so lucky. ..sure wish they would realize it. However, we are living on borrowed money, and when the social programs have no more money, then what? We cannot spend into oblivion forever!

Too bad the Republicans are not willing to address income inequity - sm

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Let's review. The rich and corporations have done very well the last 30 years while the US worker's wages are stagnant to regressing. Yes, that would be class warfare. Shame on those poor people for not just accepting it.

Rupublicans address poverty - sm

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Try reading something besides lib talking points. There were SEVERAL plans submitted to Obama by Repubs, WHICH OBAMA, PELOSI AND REID refused to discuss, let alone vote on. Read the issues the Dems refused to even bring to the floor for a vote regarding the very issues you state. Your CNN is showing.

Thanks. I guess I should clarify "in a way that helps the poor and not just the rich" - nm

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THANKS- I GUESS I SHOULD CLARIFY.. - SM

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You sure don't read anything much other than your talking points. Pretty sad.

And your Faux News is showing, - nm

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Faux News - And ANOTHER Lefty heard with their talking points

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nm

Name one. - Just one. nm

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nm

Name one-just one - Board infiltrated with intolerant libs

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Translation: All this means is that you can't. - Name one. Still waiting patiently.

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But you sure can throw mean left hook...NOT.

Translation - nm

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Just means this board is not big enough to post all the lib talking points. Not to mention their constant rude behavior towards anyone not bowing at the altar of Obama. Have not seen 1 lib on here that has had any tolerance to any point of view other than there own. This is not a politics board; it is a I am lib, hate the Repubs, verbally beat up any conservative that does not agree with my Dem/lib/progressive stance. You prove my point with your original post, not to mention others your have written. Knock yourself out...do us all a favor!

Hello. Nobody is asking you to post lib talking points. - What we await is

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someone to step up to the plate and name some of those alleged GOP proposals, described as "SEVERAL plans submitted to Obama by Repubs, WHICH OBAMA, PELOSI AND REID refused to discuss, let alone vote on. Take special note of the capitalized emphasis the GOP defender shouted from the rooftops.

I know it's a challenge, but do try to follow the thread subject. This can be easily accomplished by tracing the dialog back up to the income inequality post, which is the type of proposal(s) the defender make bogus claims the (shout it out) culprit dems have refused to discuss or prevented from coming to vote. Let's not make this harder than it needs to be. Even though she claims there were [sic] SEVERAL, I just want somebody...anybody... to name one. I don't think that is too much to ask, unless of course they do not exist. Then it might be a problem with overall credibility, huh?

So, I repeat: Name one. Just one.

Hello - Another lib intolerant - Was asked to for points -evidently you do not read

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No you weren't. I'm the one who did the asking - and

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am the same alleged intolerant libx2 (such a compelling, creative yet redundant retort SARC) to whom you are replying. Not to worry though. I will take your incessant evasions as a definite no-you-can't (back up the bogus claim). No surprise there.

PS: Not only do you not read, but you cannot follow simple instructions either. The thread from unequal income on down speaks for itself. BTW, those of us who do read understand very well where all the the intolerance is coming from.

No you weren't - again blah, blah, blah - Another intolerant

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Unequal society -MBMT - Obama not addressing poverty- He's causing it

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Too bad you don't have any facts to back that up. - mbmt

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nm

Plenty of facts - You are not interested in them

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Have seen a lot of your posts. Evidently, you read next to nothing, unless, of course, it is the glowing descriptions Obama writes about himself. BIGGEST welfare president in history, ran up the largest debt in history we are now responsible for, borrowed more money than any president in history, stimubust, highest unemployment in years, records foreclosures, food stamp president. Since none of that fits into your little world, probably will ot bother to read the massive documenation supporting each point above. He is completely inexperienced (oh, wait he did work in retail, he sold drugs). I did my homework, not going to do yours. LOOK IT UP.

plenty of facts-not interested in them - I think mbmt IS Obama-LOL

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Never saw such blind devotion to a mortal as "mbmt" has for Obama. Sort of sad and funny at the same time. Not worth reading anything mbmt writes. While one might appreciate her loyalty, you then have to question the inability to separate delusion from reality. Done with this poster...nothing of substance here.

Hmm - mbmt

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You do not know a thing about me. Talk about nothing of substance. Read your own rude, condescending posts. If you really comprehended what I am saying, you would understand that this has nothing to do with blind loyalty to President Obama.

Hmm -mbmt - No point at all

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You talk in your posts all the time about how mistreated you are. Look at what your wrote? You said nothing here...just ranted and raved, insulting a post because you did not care for it. Most have no substance at all and certainly no facts. Says alot about where you are coming from. You can stand up for Obama all you want, but how about doing it with a little class?? I am sure no one this board cares about you political affiliation. I certainly don't. Just sick of your double standard for what passes as opinion. There is no need to be so rude. You've called people liars, insulted them left and right and now you're mad...Come on, grow up!

What is with you? - mbmt

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LOL...The only thing I said is that I do not believe a certain poster is a Democrat based on the fact that I do not believe a Democrat would use the class warfare/communist/socialist talk when describing President Obama. I stand by that comment, take it or leave it. I think it is more likely that a Democrat that is not happy with Obama would accuse him of being a wimp for not standing up to Congress or something of that sort. The class warfare/socialist thing is right wing talk, but you knew that already didn't you?

And you are the authority on President Obama? - mbmt

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I am not terribly threatened by Obama period, and I can tell you are. I do, however, think you like to twist the facts to your liking.

Authority on Obama? MBMT - and you are

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Watch those caps - mbmt

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nm.

"unequal society" - concerned

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Glad to see another cool head along with a previous poster regarding the meaning of a conservative. I live within my budget and do without a lot until I have actual cash to pay for what I want. Sad part is, there is so much venom penetrating our society because of the constant Obama class warfare...only program he put in place that is getting traction. ;) I always ask libs that embrace this ideology..what is going to happen when someone thinks YOU have too much and wants to take from you what they think they deserve? Or better yet, if libs are so into this ideology, why do they keep any money or personal goods for themselves? Socialists love to spend the money of others, but as Margaret Thatcher said about socialists (paraphrased) what happens when you run out of the money of others? There will always be others better off or worse than you; stealing from one group to give it to another does not change that. Just demoralizes a society.

taxes vs stealing - ...three easy steps

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1) We all pay taxes.

2) Some people pay less tax than others.

3) Attempting to restore back to this economic tradition does not equate to "stealing from one group to give it to another".

(restore balance) - sorry, typo

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Income taxes? NO, we ALL don't pay them. - Analyst

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If you're referring to federal income taxes, then your 1st point is way off the mark. Since your 1st point is a fallacious, it looks like a rewrite of your entire post is in order.

There are two notable groups who DO NOT pay income taxes:

1) The wealthy like the Rockefellers, Kennedys, Clintons, etc. who have TAX-EMEMPT FOUNDATIONS set up. Even "upper middle class" Rahm Emanuel and his wife have their own TAX-EXEMPT FOUNDATION and enjoy COUNTLESS WRITEOFFS from such foundations on expenses that "ordinary" people have to swallow, such as tuition paid to private schools for their children's education.

2) Currently, about HALF of NONWEALTHY Americans pay NO federal income tax because their incomes are simply too LOW.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Donald-Marron/2011/0728/Why-do-half-of-Americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax

Did you even read the article? One of the main...sm - oldtimer

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points was that even with the poorest who don't pay any income taxes or those who pay very little they still pay a much higher percentage of their incomes on other taxes, sales, fuel, property, etc. than higher income people.

I'd be willing to bet Mitt Romney doesn't pay any income taxes. - me

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He doesn't want to show his tax return now. I wonder why that is?

Obama tax return - to "me"

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Why doesn't Obama publish his, along with his health record....probable because his a 1-percenter. Can you say "Tony Rezkco"? Hypocrisy from the left again!

Regarding Mitt Romney's taxes - sm

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Hypocritical how you glossed over what Tim Geitner did (never did pay all the fees we would have had to). Tax-evasion Tim pocketed the money he was given to pay those taxes, and got a major pass. Check out all the Obama cabinet members that did not pay their taxes and the ones that only paid the taxes when they were considered for their current cabinet positions (did not pay the fines or interest in most cases either). Then there is John Kerry who docked his yacht in another state and lied about it, so he would not have to pay higher docking fees. He only paid the back fees after he was found out and exposed for his lies. Then, there is the endless list of congressional members that are behind on their taxes, as well, which also includes Dems. Sad you are so blind to anything Dems do. There are good and bad in all walks of society and, yes, including the Democrat party.

Income taxes - To Analyst

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Glad to see there is someone on this board that actually can think and read more than CCN talking points. Also glad to see you can state a point of view without insulting others. Thank you!

taxes versus stealing - concerned

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#3. They are not "attempting" to restore back to economic tradition. They just keep taxing us more. You can call it what you want, does not change the fact that the govt is not entitled to what they take. What are you going to do when someone else decides you have more than they think you should...and wants it. Not tradition. Get your Websters.

let's simplify this with one question - ...

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Would you consider it unreasonable if the wealthy were taxed at the same rate as everyone else?

Demoralizing is when the middle and lower class are taxed at a higher percentage than the uber-wealthy.

Let's simplify - sm

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You simplified nothing. I do NOT covet anything anyone else has. The rich can be demonized any way you choose, but they still pay the bulk of taxes and close to 50% do not. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it already. We ALL pay taxes on gas, cigarettes, some paper products, sales tax...the rich pay those things, as well. Grow up. If you are unhappy with your income and status, stop blaming others like a baby and do something about it.

I do not demonize the rich, nor do I blame others like a baby - ...

[ In Reply To ..]
it's astonishing to me that some people cannot entertain other ideas without being completely polarizing.

I mean, really, what's the big deal? And why were you unable to give a simple answer to my simple question?

Demonizing rich - Concerned

[ In Reply To ..]
I've read pretty much all the posts on here. It seems as it there are quite a few people that hide behind the fact no one knows who they are. I was expecting so much more from this site and, unfortunately, it does not deliver. There is so much read into the postings by so many that is just not there. If people would write these posts in the manner that they would want to receive them, I think the tone would be significantly different. In answer to your simple question. The rich are paying significantly more in taxes than approximately 95% of the American public (can verify through labor statistics and IRS stats). The approximate 47% that pay no taxes (excluding sales tax, cigarette taxes, alcohol taxes, gas taxes, you get the picture) have no skin in the game. I believe everyone should pay something, however, small. It is very easy to waste someone else's money, especially when there is no cost involved personally by the person doing the spending.

Exactly. EVERYONE should pay something, and this constant - talk that the rich do not pay their fair share,

[ In Reply To ..]
what a load of garbage. Basically, our president LIES to the public. Sure there is corporate greed, but his class warfare is killing any hope for unity. Obama is sickening and not a leader. Wake up, America!

EVERYONE should pay something- - Agree - Sick of carrying slackers

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Do you not take care of your appearance? - thatsprettybad nm

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Was that supposed to make sense? nm - ??

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Did I miss something? When did Chicken Little gain - GOP frontrunner status?

[ In Reply To ..]
They sky if falling! The sky is falling!

chicken little took ove GOP- About the same time Capone took over Dems - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Hmmmm!

Capone - Love it - Perfect description

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I suppose flights of fantasy, - paranoid delusions

[ In Reply To ..]
and tangential thinking all hold a certain appeal to select sects of the population.

Flights of fantasy - Paranoid delusions - You would know

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Having endured the endless succession of - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
preliminary GOP primary debates, I must say that Chicken Little is probably their last best hope. He has eons of experience with tapping into the fear factor that has engulfed their party, would probably do an awesome job of seizing party enthusiasm and would be easily able to mobilize solidarity among their ranks...something the current contenders have failed miserably to do so far. Perhaps an 11th hour write-in campaign for the frightful fowl might even thwart the Donald's threat to enter the race as an independent and to potentially siphon off a couple of million votes from the birther buffoons' camp.

Chicken Little in 2012. Something to think about.

LOL - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for your comment. I needed a laugh. Maybe Ronald McDonald can be VP.

Good idea. He would put an immediate halt to that uppity - FLOTUS's healthy kids initiative. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

LOL - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Only on the Dem' ticket.

LOL = where's my job - You already have Howdy Doody as your prez

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

I really wish - Sigh

[ In Reply To ..]
That William W. Johnstone wasn't dead. And that The Tristates Manifesto was required reading for every single politician and voter.

There's a word for a manifesto with an expressed goal of eliminating - political parties by any means necessary

[ In Reply To ..]
in the name of patriotism. It's called fascism. Mussolini tried it, but it didn't work out too well for him. He was strung up by his ankles and swung upside down from ceiling rafters and riddled with bullets in a public execution to the deafening roar of millions of cheering onlookers alongside 15 of his closest cronies. It's a cautionary tale, sm. Best get yourself back to the drawing board.

Besides, don't you find it a bit contradictory to advocate eliminating entire political parties off the face of the earth in the same breath with sanctimonious sermons about how freedom must be earned? What kind of freedom is that? UnAmerican and unconstitutional would be your first clues. By the way, any creed that places unrestricted gun ownership above all other priorities is more than a few bricks shy of a load.

Next time you try to fake it - Don't

[ In Reply To ..]
First, thank you so much for the laugh. Second, shame on you. Better to say nothing at all than talk just to say something.

1. Education, not gun ownership, is the priority of the Tristates form of government. It’s clearly stated constantly throughout the entire thing. They’re all for the right to bear arms, sure, but it’s all about education. Which you’d know had you read it. Proponents abhor ignorance and strive to educate all, believing that through education will eventually come betterment in all other areas – healthcare, economy, foreign policy, etc. Gun ownership…lol.

2. I actually nearly choked to death on my own tongue I was laughing so hard at your use of the word “unconstitutional”. Do you know the definition of the word? I’m thinking you mustn’t since you used it. The whole entire point is a return to the constitutional laws. A common sense form of government, which is the whole reason the liberals hate him. (Don’t let the good boy go bad…get those keys out of your car!). It was the whole point of the series, which you’d know had you read even the first page of the manifesto. Even the first page.

3. At no time, ever, does anyone say anything at all about eliminating other political parties. Ever. Did I mention ever?

But, it was your use of the word sanctimonious that really gave you away as not having read it at all. Because Johnstone did, indeed, get so very, very preachy around the 10th book….but you couldn’t possibly know that just be reading the Tristates Manifesto itself. The only way you could possibly know about his soapbox sermons is if you’d read some review written by a liberal hater of the author and/or series and then rushed right on over here to insult me for daring to make an innocuous little comment that you didn’t get.

Your insult has no validity at all since you don’t have a clue what you’re even talking about. I would have gladly debated all day and night with you had you actually read the thing, or even skimmed it.

As it is, it was a nice attempt with the whole communist thing thrown in there (lots of liberals like to toss that in there, they didn’t even come up with it themselves, though…the author himself did it!) but I’m not so easily offended.

Endless succession - Howdy Doody we arlready have

[ In Reply To ..]
Just returning your respect.

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