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A public union employee, a tea party activist, and a CEO

Posted: Feb 27, 2011

A public union employee, a tea party activist, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the tea partier and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie.

Pretty much sums it up.

;

It perfectly sums it up! Thanks for posting this. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Yep, it does sum it up, except you have it backwards... - as far as our taxes go, the public union

[ In Reply To ..]
employee gets more of THAT cookie than the CEO does. Not sure how the CEO gets ANY of our cookies for that matter. Please explain that one. Since we pay the public employees through taxation at federal, state and city level...I am thinking the public union employee is getting the 11 cookies and is whispering to the party activist "Watch out for that CEO. Everybody knows the rich are to blame for everything."

Yep. The union would probably take them all then - throw crumbs to the CEO/T.party.nm

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nm

Corporations get corporate welfare. Who pays for THAT? - nm

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nm

Please define corporate welfare with specific examples. - Be advised that corporations

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in many cases employ union members and a lot of sound companies have been made unsound and caused to fail by collective bargaining gone mad. Who pays for THAT??

While I am researching the VAST body of data - available on corporate welfare

[ In Reply To ..]
suppose you come up with a few examples of your own, like the "many" cases where "a lot" of companies have been made unsound and caused to fail by collective bargaining. To answer your question, corporations are private entities, not public. Ergo, taxpayers do not pay for a single penny of your alleged yet unsubstantiated claims.

My claims are as substantiated as yours at this point. - I will wait for the VAST body

[ In Reply To ..]
of data you have. You are just looking at one-half of the original post. It specifically said public employee. Ergo, taxpayers pay EVERY SINGLE PENNY of their salaries and benefits other than what they may (or may not) contribute to their benefits. Why not address the WHOLE issue? Well, because it doesn't fit your agenda of blaming the evillll rich for everything. Okay...how many car manufacturing plants had to close due to out of control collective bargaining? GM ring a bell? HUGE private entity...who bailed them out...YEP. US. TAXPAYERS.

Give it up already. I don't buy the evilll rich class warfare CEOs are to blame for all the ills in the world. Unions, especially unions for government employees, need to step up and take it on the chin, and so should the United Auto Workers for contributing to the downfall of GM and putting THAT in our laps.

Okay, I have made my examples. Now you come on with that VAST body of data, and be specific.

Thanks.

Ever shoot yourself in the foot? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Correction. I was looking at YOUR reference in YOUR post to corporations, which are private entities. GM workers are also not public employees. You have just provided a ginormous example of corporate welfare (auto industry bailouts), which by the way is almost always bankrolled by taxpayers.

FYI, GM did not fail because of union demands. Your memory seems to be quite selective on this. Their workers made concession after concession after concession. GM failed because of bad financial policies, uncompetitive vehicles, ignoring their competition, failure to innovate and basic oversights like rising gas prices, the collapsing credit market (which includes their selling control of GMAC) and their impact on buyers willingness to purchase gas-guzzlers like the Hummer, Escalade and SUVs. In a nutshell, management did not respond to change.

When at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

If you actually did read the post, I did NOT - say GM workers were

[ In Reply To ..]
public employees. I said they were a huge PRIVATE entity...stop crowing until you have something to crow ABOUT.

My first post on the subject never said CEOs did NOT get into our pockets...what I said was, yes they do, but not as directly as public employees do. You don't seem to care about that, but it does not support your evillll rich corporations mantra, so you..how did you say it...are very "selective" on that.

As to collective bargaining not being the cause of GM failure...and that the workers made concession after concession...well sure...but anyone with common sense will tell you there is no sense closing the barn door after the horse is out.

Oh...and you really want me to buy that GM is the ONLY car company that engaged in all of the things you lamblast them with? Come ON. You are going pretty far afield here with then basic premise is this: YES, the corporations do get into our tax dollars. SO DO public employees, more directly so, because every dime of their income comes from tax dollars. So, with all the public employees in this country, my best guess is that THEY hit us harder than the CEOs. I acknowledge that both get in my pocket. I don't like it when EITHER of them get in my pocket. But when the union members want me to continue to subsidize their bigger salaries and bennies through their fellow middle class taxpayers pockets and at the same time pointing those long fingers at the "heartless" corporations.

From where I am sitting, I don't see much difference.

Now can we stop beating this dead horse?

Not quite. Why guess that THEY hit us harder than CEOs? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I did my research on corporate welfare (below) and your incorrect assumptions on CB being the culprit underpinning GMs implosion. It is your turn now. Show me the stats on how public employees are into our pockets harder than CEOs. Put your data where your mouth. If you cannot do that, your horse was DOA from the get go.

You did not do any research, you copied - someone else's and...

[ In Reply To ..]
it proved MY point, which you keep turning away from. The fact that they BOTH get in our pockets and you excuse one but not the other.

Try a little common sense rather that cutting and pasting...follow me here. I know you can do it. Take the number of public employees (city, town, state, federal, county, et al) in this country. Our tax dollars pay every dime of their salaries any what benefits they have that they do not contribute to, and anybody knows that unions members may MUCH less toward their benefits than the rest of us do. Don't even try to dispute that one. Corporations, whatever tax money they get from the federal government, is controlled by the federal government. Right there shows your misplaced anger. You said it...government supports corporations. So be PO'ed at the government, not me. The point IS...and you keep skirting it...it stands to reason that per capita there are more public employees than CEOs. You KNOW this. We directly contribute to the public employees. The government takes from other tax dollars to give "welfare" to corporations.

Another question for you...those said corporations employ thousands upon thousands of union members. Pretty ironic, is it not?

As I said...there are more public employees in this country than CEOs and we foot the bill for their salaries and a large percentage of their bennies through our tax dollars and that is fine and dandy with you...however, you balk at the government (also our tax dollars) giving tax dollars to corporations...who in turn employ thousands of union members.

The horse was never DOA but your argument was and no matter how you try to skirt it, the central issue is you are okay with the public employees being in your pocket (to an obviously higher degree than the corporations are) but not the govt giving tax dollars to corporations. Why? Because it does not fit your agenda.

You can argue with yourself now. ;)

Ask and ye shall receive. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I did not want to do all your leg work for you, but have provided and excellent source for a beginner in Corporate Welfare 101 that appears at the bottom of the post. Don't feel too overwhelmed. It is only 24 pages and is a quick read. It even has stats, charts, graphs and such.

Before examining corporate welfare, lets play find the #1 corporate welfare queen. Among the contenders are: Johnson and Johnson, Halliburton, Enron, Exelon, General Electric, JPMorganChase, Wellpoint, ADM (Archer Daniel Midland Corp), Exxon,Wal-Mart, AIG, Toyota, Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola and Dow Chemical.

How would you like to pay only a quarter of the real estate taxes you owe on your home? And buy everything for the next 10 years without spending a single penny in sales tax? Keep a chunk of your paycheck free of income taxes? Have the city in which you live lend you money at rates cheaper than any bank charges? Then have the same city install free water and sewer lines to your house, offer you a perpetual discount on utility bills--and top it all off by landscaping your front yard at no charge?

Fat chance. You can't get any of that, of course. But if you live almost anywhere in America, all around you are taxpayers getting deals like this. These taxpayers are called corporations, and their deals are usually trumpeted as "economic development" or "public-private partnerships." But a better name is corporate welfare. It's a game in which governments large and small subsidize corporations large and small, usually at the expense of another state or town and almost always at the expense of individual and other corporate taxpayers.

Corporate welfare can be defined as any action by local, state or federal government that gives a corporation or an entire industry a benefit not offered to others. It can be an outright subsidy, a grant, real estate, a low-interest loan or a government service. It can also be a tax break--a credit, exemption, deferral or deduction, or a tax rate lower than the one others pay.

Companies get government money to advertise their products; to help build new plants, offices and stores; and to train their workers. They sell their goods to foreign buyers that make the acquisitions with tax dollars supplied by the U.S. government; engage in foreign transactions that are insured by the government; and are excused from paying a portion of their income tax if they sell products overseas. They pocket lucrative government contracts to carry out ordinary business operations, and government grants to conduct research that will improve their profit margins. They are extended partial tax immunity if they locate in certain geographical areas, and they may write off as business expenses some of the perks enjoyed by their top executives.

State and local governments now give corporations money to move from one city to another--even from one building to another--and tax credits for hiring new employees. They supply funds to train workers or pay part of their wages while they are in training, and provide scientific and engineering assistance to solve workplace technical problems. They repave existing roads and build new ones. They lend money at bargain-basement interest rates to erect plants or buy equipment. They excuse corporations from paying sales and property taxes and relieve them from taxes on investment income.

Whatever the name, the result is the same. Some companies receive public services at reduced rates, while all others pay the full cost. Some companies are excused from paying all or a portion of their taxes due, while all others must pay the full amount imposed by law. Some companies receive grants, low-interest loans and other subsidies, while all others must fend for themselves.

In the end, that's corporate welfare's greatest flaw. It's unfair. One role of government is to help ensure a level playing field for people and businesses. Corporate welfare does just the opposite. It tilts the playing field in favor of the largest or the most politically influential or most aggressive businesses.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,989508,00.html#ixzz1FHg0hWW0

For the more academically inclined, check out the 546 referencs in the bibliography at the end of this article, The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa592.pdf

This is one of the most wonderful posts on the subject - Covered so much

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for doing so much work on this. I may have to print and frame it. Really. It is so good you should repost it at the top so more people will see it.

Thanks, that helps. But it brings me right back to... - what I said before and you...

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blasted me for. The CEOs get in the pocket of the middle class (yes, I said that), and the public union employees ALSO get in the pocket of the nonunion middle class, so they are BOTH getting in my pocket, the union public employees more so because EVERY dime of their salary comes out of my pocket (and yours). What I do NOT understand is why you are willing to let the union in your pocket but not the CEO. Why IS that? They are both getting to me through taxes, the union more directly than the CEO. Isn't that what you have just proven with this: The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses.

The federal government has no money other than that derived from taxes, so we the taxpayer are footing that bill. Federal, state and local governments' employees are all paid for, EVERY dime of their income comes from us, the taxpayer.

Why be incensed about one and not the other???

Here is some more info - sm

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/25/barack-obama-king-of-corp_n_191411.html

This is about income, not taxes. - sm

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You know this is true. That is why you can't you address the subject at hand.

The CEO gets all the income and pays hardly - any taxes. You're right.nm

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nm

You are so wrong!.. you need to study. Your statement of - pays hardly any taxes -delusional.nm

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nm

I believe the poster was referring to corporate taxes.. - not personal taxes.

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the corporation may pay less corporate taxes (I highly doubt "none", that is an exaggeration, but the CEO is an individual and has to pay personal income taxes and since they are some of the "rich" they will be in the top bracket. You need to separate the individual from the corporation...not the same entity.

It is not about income when you bring in public - employees. We the people

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pay their salaries through taxes. No government at any level has any money other than through taxation. The example specifically said public employee. It has everything to do with taxes.

Perhaps you need to read it again and YOU should address the subject at hand. I know for a fact it is NOT true and made my point. Now, you make yours.

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