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Progressives and Obama


Posted: Sep 6, 2011

What Democrats can do about Obama

A Democrat argues that the party's 2012 nomination should be debated -- with all options open

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Never happen. - Zville MT

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The only dem I can see doing this is maybe Dennis Kucinich - maybe. And even if Obama's number are low on election day, I can't see that any dem who faithfully votes the party line would EVER vote for a republican, libertarian, etc.

It's a nice thought, though. I think both parties need to take a good hard look at themselves and ask if they're doing what's best for the country.

I think you're absolutely right. If someone like - Russ Feingold would (sm)

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run, I'd probably vote for him; however, if nobody runs against Obama, I will still vote for Obama. The Republicans have revealed themselves to only care about corporations and the very rich.

After 40 years of working usually two jobs at a time, I became ill with an incurable disease, and I receive Social Security Disability Income. I will never vote against my own interests.

I don't ever vote a party line, but the Republican's policies with respect to middle class and the poor are something I will never vote for. I refuse to vote against my own interests.

Democractic altruism is an oxymoron. - hmmm

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They are interested in only 1 thing - your vote.

Not your health.

Not your financial well-being (unless they're looking for a campaign donation).

Not your job.

These so-called "evil corporations" and "rich" donate plenty to Democrats. There is an article on msn.com today about how much politicians from both sides have received in campaign contributions from health care companies in order to affect their decision-making with respect to health care cost cutting.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44420635/ns/politics-more_politics/

Obama is not your savior...wake up!
I agree with you. Conservatives donate far - more money to charities than do
[ In Reply To ..]
liberals, even after paying taxes. I assume that the liberals feel that their policies and entitlements in the government are enough. If that were true, though, then why do they constantly scream for more government programs and that the poor and middle class are not getting a fair shake. As a member of the ever dwindling middle class, I certainly do not believe that voting Democrat is voting for my interests.
Yes, because they call their country club a - charitable organization
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Gotta get me some of those tax deductions! I wonder what will happen if the tax code is ever reformed?
UR in luck. Heard Obama float the phrase "tax cuts for the middle class" - along with
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supporting union's right to collective bargaining. Heck, if the tpots are so determined to push the economy over the cliff with their recycled economy decimating cuts and deregs, might as well storm the castle and spread the booty from sea to shining sea on our way down.
That's ridiculous. I (and many other conservatives) - donate to actual charities.
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Do you? Better yet, do you volunteer to help people with your time and money? I do.
Passing historical comprehensive HCR shows just - how disinterested dems are in our health, huh?
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It is a wonder that anybody this challenged by elementary logic is able to make it from one day to the next.
I do quite well... - hmmm
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My mind is not cluttered with the liberal baggage you all seem to be staggering under.
Your expertise in puny pot shots is mighty impressive - nm
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nm
historical health care legislation - dnh
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Historical does not equal good or successful. I think this legislation is dangerous and will do significant damage to this country. quality of care and availability of care will suffer.
It's been a Godsend for the more than half million - young helthy new enrollees. nm
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The Holocaust was historical, too. - You are absolutely right.
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Historical does not equal good.
No it doesn't, but 600,000 new health insurance - enrollees in one quarter=a good thing
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no matter how you slice it, or try to tear it apart, as the case may be. Just can't get around it. HCR is working out well in that particular arena. Amazing how some just refuse to hear good news.
Amazing how some of us try to share truly good news... - hmmm
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and get flamed for it.
Raising the costs and lowering the standard - of my care=not a good thing
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in my book. You all are kidding yourselves if you think that this won't happen. How can so many more people have better health care at a lower cost? The answer is that they can't. I am going to pay more for lesser care. The answer is not to lower the standard of care for the many to give that same substandard care to the few. That is only a good option if you belong to the few who aren't going to pay for it, anyway.
Prognostications and crystal balls are not nearly as interesting - as cold hard facts
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and the facts here are that larger-than expected numbers of young healthy folks were able to afford private individual health insurance for the first time. Your assertions are purely speculative, so could you share with us exactly what is making you think you will be paying more and standard of care will decline? Are your fears based in reality, or just your garden variety disdain for our president? Inquiring minds want to know.
I'd like to know, too. - nm
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My fears are based on economics. - You cannot provide the
[ In Reply To ..]
same quality of care to more people for a lesser price, especially if many of those people have preexisting conditions. Please get out your crystal ball and tell me how you think that this can happen.
Our health insurance premium went up 25% this year. - hmmm
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That is a fact.
Health insurance company profits went up 41% last year. - That's another fact. nm
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I don't do crystal balls. - sm
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I also do not talk about two distinctly different economic concepts simultaneously, so I will confine my comments to the subject at hand, which is the cost of health insurance premiums. The cost of health care services is a different ball game.

Insurance 101. The larger the pool of insured, the larger the coffers. Please note the larger-than-expected enrollment of HEALTHY younger previously uninsured folks being added to the pool of the privately insured, which will serve to offset expenses of care for persons with pre-existing conditions in that particular sector. Coverage for pre-existing conditions has always been a piece of the pie, whether it be group or individual coverage. Even though those benefits have been subject to delay, they typically kick in after one year, depending on the terms of the policy, so offsetting their beneifts with lower-risk members has always been part of the game.

HCR is being implemented incrementally, so the increase in new enrollees with pre-existing conditions will be a gradually staged event and will be spread across various private and public options as they become available. Depending on their ability to pay, some will opt for private policies, while others will enroll through groups, exchanges, Medicaid or Medicare systems. Those individuals and families with incomes from 133% to 400% of poverty level will receive premium and cost sharing credits.

The only thing that has really changed for the pre-existing group is that they cannot be turned down and cannot be dropped. They have always paid higher premiums, and that will continue to be the case regardless of which option they take, though the premiums are expected to be more affordable due to the enlargement of the overall pool of insured. Because of the mandate, the pool will be enlarged by large numbers of healthy young adults and dependent children, not just the frail and sickly with pre-existing conditions. The wild card factor in this scenario, which you failed to mention, is not so much the new enrollees with pre-existing conditions as it is the companies themselves and (hello) their PROFIT margins, lately reported to be at all time record highs. That also is subject to change after HCR has been fully implemented.

I've always viewed insurance as a great big gambling casino. The way it is now, the odds are stacked WAY in favor of the house, with few winners, hoardes of losers and multitudes who never make it through the front door. HCR is a mechanism to level the playing field by opening up the doors, instituting new ante-up requirements for all patrons, unstacking and reshuffling the decks and restacking the odds to favor the all players, not just the house.

IMO, all the fears, speculations and naysaying in the world isn't going to change this one basics fact: Status quo that excludes more than 50 million people from access to health care while insurance carriers post record profits on the backs of the most deprived, vulerable and ill among us is no longer acceptable in an allegedly highly developed nation that strives to maintain its "superpower" status. If the bootstrap rugged indivdualists are put out by the idea of all Americans working together toward progress in providing access to health care, OH WELL, let them thumb their noses, opt for penalties and pay for their own health care.
This bill is clearly designed to force insurance - companies out of business.
[ In Reply To ..]
They are clearly part of that "evil rich" that the left so despises. Go ahead and forget that insurance companies employ a whole bunch of people and that there are those of us out there who are perfectly happy with our insurance. Screw us--it isn't perfect for you. Why should I, who worked hard to get through college and work hard for my money, have more than anybody else? Especially those who don't work. They deserve a piece of my pie, right? Time and time again I have seen those on this board call for getting rid of insurance companies out of one side of their mouths, while saying out of the other that my insurance will not be changed. It's a bunch of crap. As far as healthcare costs versus insurance costs, of course they are dependent on one another. You cannot say that the two are not interrelated. That would be like saying that the cost of rubber has no effect on the cost of tires.
Too absurd to merit comment. - nm
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And, yet, you still felt the need to do so. - No good argument?
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nm
see msg - dnh
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You last sentence says it all. "If all Americans were working together toward progress......." except how many of those 50 million you mention are able bodied and capable of working but too lazy or stupid or selfish to do so and just prefer to wait around for their free handouts on the backs of those of us who do work and have worked for ourselves and our families? And don't even try to tell me that isn't happening. We ALL KNOW it is. I have no qualms about helping those who truly need help but I am sick and tired of being taken advantage of by those who are just living off the system for generations upon generations.
Even more absurd than the OP. - sm
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You are obviously just as of touch with where the country is at as your party is and with how much human suffering these kind of attitudes have perpetuated. It takes a lot of energy to harbor this kind of hate. I wouldn't walk in your shoes for all the tea in China.

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