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NRA wants armed guards in schools

Posted: Dec 21, 2012

Of all the ways in which we could respond, this, in my opinion, is the most stupid. It should be noted that "good guys with guns" are not impermeable to gunfire. Fighting fire with fire is not the way for our society to evolve. The CDC is barred - legally BARRED - from releasing data on gun deaths because the NRA is such a strong lobby. Until which time this data is made available, the NRA should keep both sides of their mouths shut. And shame on all the spineless legislators who bow to the pressure brought to bear by the NRA.;

I actually think that's okay. - RC

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My school had a police officer on campus. Just seeing the cop car parked prominently in front is enough to deter some people.

Don't get me wrong--I also think there should be stronger regulations regarding guns, in addition to taking a precaution like having an officer in the school.

I do NOT think giving the principal or teachers guns is a good idea. I've seen that brought up on the board and the idea terrifies me.

I think the NRA is trying to say "hey, we're gonna help solve this problem!" but doing so in a way that will in no way affect them. Which is really childish.

And will that officer be armed with a military weapon instead of normal police-issue? - Is this crazy or what?

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There are cops at many schools. They do not normally carry the military style weapons that so many wish to have banned. We they be equipped with one now? Okay, suppose he is. Do you realize how big some high schools are? Someone could probably kill up to 50 people before our resource officer could even get his fat butt on the other side of the building.

Considering some believe this type of violence is brought on by certain violent video games, where the player tries to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible, and considering that these sickos are very willing to die when they commit these acts, it would seem to be that this would essentially be making this competition a little more enjoyable for them. They already know the end result for their own lives, but what about those they think they are "competing for."

This is crazy.

It's a step toward safety. - RC

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There's no one thing that's going to solve this problem. It has be approached from many directions to ensure schools are as safe as possible.

Gun regulations are a good start, but there are so many guns already in circulation that regulation will not make a difference for a long time, probably decades. Another issue that gets brought up a lot is mental healthcare, and that ALSO needs to play a role in the solution.

So yes, it is crazy. And no matter what we do, there will be cracks. But to do nothing would be near criminal.

the criminality of doing nothing - sm

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is basically what the NRA has just proposed. School districts across America are free to have armed guards, and some do. Individual communities are free to make this choice as a response to the danger of gun violence. I daresay that someone motivated enough to commit such violence will find a way to do so - armed guards or not.

The fact that this is the most meaningful response the NRA can come up with would be like the pope recommending that parents not send their little boys to church looking so cute.

I agree, it's a cop-out on their part. - RC

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And for that (as well as other things), they truly suck. I mentioned in my first post that it was a childish approach for them to only suggest something that would have zero affect on themselves.

I hear you. - sm

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With all their money, you would think the NRA might have a PR person that could save them from shooting themselves in the foot (pun intended).

A lot of posters here seem to be focused on only 1 suggestion made by the NRA - backwards typist

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They made other suggestions, too, not just armed guards in schools. (BTW, even schools have suggested this option.)

They also made suggestions about the violence in movies, video games, and music.

Banning assault weapons did not work back in 1995. People who wanted one rushed out to buy them before the law was passed, just like they are doing this week because of the suggestion of banning, not just assault weapons, but also ammo and other guns types.

We all have to put our heads together and make suggestions or come up with solutions that could help Congress come up with a plan.....but then again, would they really listen or still do what they want? ;-)

and there is a reason for that: - sm

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not one of their suggestions even remotely included the idea that gun control is possible and could be useful.

Right. NOTE that posting armed guards in elementary schools - is very different from officers in high schools.

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Our elementary schools are VERY safe places to be. High school can be different, but even then it should be on a case-by-case basis.

I really doubt it. The danger is actually EXTREMELY - low. Hire teachers, not guns. nm

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x

Plus, we would then worry about vetting the armed men on - each campus. Security guards are not

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typically the most competent, stable people in the workforce. At best it doesn't pay well compared to many other choices, and it has a big turnover. People who take jobs as security guards also have other things in common with the killers they're supposed to protect the children from: They're both almost all men and they're drawn to guns more than average.

and all the shooter has to do is kill the guard - nm

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Then there's the collision between concentration of power - abuse of authority and

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prevailing political crosswinds, like those that came together back in the 60s and 70s when, at least on state and local levels, we witnessed this first-hand with police violence against nonviolent peaceful demonstrators, who ultimately became so frustrated with the suppression and violence, some of them took up arms themselves. While I know it's not perfectly analogous, it does make me uncomfortable when remembering being on the receiving end of that after getting caught up in a trampling crowd trying to escape these tactics during a protest arrest "roundup."

I am also not all that anxious to see that same kind of zeal turned against the mentally ill, who undoubtedly will be much less likely to reveal themselves to family and friends and/or seek treatment should the information in that otherwise benign database be used in the wrong way, and especially should the politics sway in the direction of criminalization. History tells us this is a distinct possibility.

It's worth mentioning that mentally ill persons whose disease complex often includes paranoid delusions, like criminals, feel LESS secure in the presence of police, so it is incumbent upon lawmakers and voters to proceed with caution when making these calculations. No matter how you slice it though, this issue keeps taking us back to the question of access to high-powered assault weapons and ammunition that enables mass killings.

A lot of security guards are retired police officers or veterans - backwards typist

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They aren't incompetent or unstable. It's up to the company that hires security guards to make sure they hire the best and brightest, training and qualifications like the police have to do would help.

It's just sad that we have to resort to armed guards in schools. I'd rather not see it myself. What would be next? Armed guards in grocery stores? They're already in malls in some states.

I still think the violent video games and movies have a lot to do with the insanity of our country today. I never thought of it that way when I was young because the above items weren't that violent, nor were they part of every kid's life. Strict parental guidance was there. I am really shocked at some of these games and movies of today. The bloodier and gorier they are, the more kids want to see them. Where will it end?

We'd need over 100K JUST for the public schools. - Retired cops cost too much, and veterans? SM

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Get real. This huge group, presumably named because they've been taught how to use weapons, includes some of the most screwed up, violent people in society. Too many come back unable to get and hold the kind of good job that a lot of people would want. A relatively low-pay, low-skill job that involved carrying a gun for status? Yup. There'd be a lot of "veteran" applicants.

For starters, the armed Sheriff's deputy at Columbine was - at lunch break when the shooters arrived.

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He called for backup after missing his mark and failing to prevent their entry to the school after a gunfire exchange in the back parking lot. He missed his shot a second time after he saw Harris through a window.

It seems this argument overlooks a couple of thing:

1. Coffee chops, restaurants and cafes
2. College campuses.
3. Workplaces/companies
4. Places of worship.
5. Post offices.
6. Shopping centers.
7. Grocery stores.
8. Malls.
9. Hair Salons.
10. Health spas.
11. Movie theaters.
12. Night clubs.
13. Concerts.
14. County courts.
15. City Council chambers.
16. Apartment complexes.
17. Hotels.
18. Nursing homes.
19. Civic associations.
20. Railroad and substations.
21. Military installations (Fort Hood, Fairchild AFB).

....all locations of mass shootings with high fatality and injury counts, some of which DID have armed security presence, and those at the military installations are trained marksmen with weapons at their fingertips. Do you REALLY want to see all these places, or perhaps every single public place, turned into armed camps. Really?

See interactive map here for details.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

well done - nm

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the poor man... - sm

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I guess one would have to admit that if an armed guard is required for protection, it's kind of silly to have an uncovered lunch break. Guess we need two armed guards.

Yes everybody, I know it's not perfect. - RC

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But nothing is, and it certainly couldn't hurt.

I'm all for gun control, but why not be willing to try other things in addition?

Of course. But how about moving AWAY from - shootout mentality? We have over 100K public

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schools. Virtually all are happy, noisy places where children learn and play. Let's not bring armed men in WHERE THEY ARE NOT REALLY NEEDED and would have little positive impact but a very definite negative one everywhere.

Needless to say, or maybe it isn't, this would be extremely, extremely expensive. It would also inevitably lead at some point to violence from some of more than 100,000 security guards themselves (at any one time--don't forget what turnover would do to the numbers of different armed men over each year at all the schools).

Of course there would be an unending stream of dysfunctional principals' nephews, coach's sons, etc., being offered the best pay/best benefits job they'd ever had with the hope that it would finally settle them down.

BTW, somehow I really doubt Mrs. Lanza ever thought her son was capable of even half of what he did. Or she would have gotten rid of the guns. And locked her bedroom door while she was sleeping.

sorry, but - rc

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I was glad to have an officer there. That's why I feel the way I do about the nra 's statement, as lame as it was. I'm a lib, but I also realize that gun laws will take a long time to make a statistical difference, and I think we should offer protection in the meantime.

rc, these simple-answer defensive measures ONLY make - you "glad." They don't work. Half

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their appeal is probably that people feel they understand them and feel they bring some control. A good part of the rest that they don't require anything from the individual. Funny how so many conservatives are happy on this issue to turn to MORE government involvement, armed too. Take care of me, Daddy.

Many studies have shown these expensive but "easy" answers don't make a real difference.

We've become too violent as a society. We need to watch less violent entertainment and ban it from our children's viewing. We need fewer wars and fewer kids trained to kill then brought home. Plus all the other things recommended by people who study this and know how to really fix it. If we care enough to do it.

It doesn't increase safety, just paranoia & suspicion. - Not only that, even if it were successful - sm

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in keeping schools from getting shot up, it would just sweep the problem of crazies with guns to another area. There are still plenty of shopping malls, movie theaters, football stadiums, 4th-of-July parades, kids' soccer games, family reunions, picnics, car shows, Sunday church services, city parks, tunnels, ferries, ski lodges and gambling casinos where the same kind of massacre could occur. Unless Americans want to put an armed guard on every street corner across the nation (wow - talk about a Police State!), maybe the answer to keeping our freedom of movement and assembly, AND some semblance of safety, is to ban personal possession of military-grade assault weapons in America. And that should be effective for all weapons purchased BEFORE such ban went into effect, as well. Target-shooting hobbyists and duck hunters don't need Ouzis.

Exactly. Increasing the atmosphere of danger - surrendering to it--is stupid. nm

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x

And once we place armed guards in schools, - there is no going back

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Let's try to imagine that day when we announce that we're pulling the armed guards out of schools. Ain't gonna happen. I would rather see no one have guns (or everyone have guns) before our schools become militarized zones.

Agree with you - Fanatical Hypocrite

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Armed security staff may not be perfect, but it's better than nothing. Seems like nobody wants to try anything these days. It could be a valuable part to a robust series of political and social changes that need to happen. Somewhere along the line in America the status quo became more important than human lives. If we change things and then don't like them or they don't work, we can change them back.

you're the only one :) - rc .nm

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.

I do too - anon

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Just got on and reading the threads.

You are not alone =]

Agree also. - sm

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After Oklahoma City bombing, major changes to increase security at federal buildings nationwide were enacted. Certainly, the same should be provided for our schools. Ridiculous to believe massacres will not happen again. Regardless of pro-or-con opinions about gun control, all schools should have increased security measures put in place immediately.

it's actually not clear to me - sm

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whether an armed guard would prevent shooters or attract them. On top of it, it should be noted that the tragedy in Newtown is not a school shooting, but rather a shooting in a school. Statistically, school is one of the safest places for a child.

Should have expected a simpleminded violence-oriented approach that - would only increase our culture of violence.nm

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x

Only the NRA could come up with something so ridiculous. - no message

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s

NRA: "Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a - good guy with a gun." Lord help us!! nm

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x

...as long as the bad guy gets dead before the good guy... - sm

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Fancy that. The NRA has not heard of sniper capabilities. So really, the slogan should be "only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is TWO good guys with a gun". After all, since one good guy could end up dead, there should be backup.

Umhm. And let's not forget how they decide who's "bad." - Let's hope AFTER seeing his weapon. nm

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x

Yep. 2002 Beltway sniper weapon of choice was Bushmaster XM-15 - semiautomatic .223

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which was directly linked to at least 11 out of 14 shootings in the spree, and one in Louisiana linked to the two suspects, resulting in 10 deaths, 1 injury and one that missed its target. Successful legal actions against the retailer and Bushmaster later revealed it was stolen from Bull's Eye Shooter Supply. The proprietor could not produce records of the sale or reports of the gun's disappearance to authorities, which the court found to be standard operating procedure for that supplier. Bushmaster was also found responsible because it continued to sell to the establishment despite being aware of it's records-keeping violations.

Too little, too late for the deceased victims.

Not that money is more important - than lives....(SM)

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...but in our school district, we have what they call SROs (school resource officers) stationed in the high schools and at least some of the middle schools. The same officer....always there every school day....kids get to know them (an "Officer Friendly" kind of thing), and the officer can ticket for parking lot violations the kids commit (my own son got one for spinning his wheels out of the parking lot one time--"exhibitionist driving," I think was the ticket).

That's all well and good....but a couple years ago, when the district was having to cut a million+ from its budget, they proposed cutting four of these school officers for a savings of over $200,000 to the district.

Sooooo, I'm just saying that if stationing a police presence at every school in the country might run roughly $50,000 a year.....well, I'm just sayin' -- "more taxes" aren't on everyone's wish list.

I don't have the answers -- I wish I did. If I still had kids in school, I'd want them to be as safe as humanly possible, no matter what and no matter what the cost; however, the cost would definitely be a factor here.

One other thought: I totally admire and respect our military members and police officers; however, former-military and law-enforcement people have been known to have major breaks and flip out, like any other human being. There is just so much to consider. :-(

So agree. And officers in high schools can be sensible. But - their pay came from cuts, not more taxes. nm

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x

Armed security in schools. - anon

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No, not the only or complete answer but at least a step forward. Local high school here has had a deputy on duty at the school grounds for the last several years. Has worked out great. I would have no problem whatsoever with an armed policeman or security officer being present at our local elementary. Indeed, he/she might not be able to stop something bad from happening, but you can bet it would be a deterent and with the caliber of law enforcement we have in most areas, he/she would be a lot more likely to be able to handle or stop a bad situation than a teacher would. Agree we need more, but this would certainly help put my mind at ease.

if Mariah Carey were tone-deaf would we take her seriously? - (just thinking out loud)

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Would we throw money at her and go to her concerts? Would we value her critique of other singers? I know it's a silly analogy, but I like it anyway. The NRA should be ashamed of itself. and America should be ashamed of the NRA.

The truth is... - the NRA wants every

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man, woman and child old enough to pull a trigger armed to the teeth. Why? They are working for gun manufacturers, not the American people as many seem to believe.

Interesting that social conservatives like the idea of - an armed government presence, increased

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government power. Usually, the complaint from the right is about too much government.

In this case, though, they apparently see controlling mass killings as belonging in the same category of problems as decreasing religiosity and want government to similarly impose it on the country.

Big Gov's okay as long as it's their big daddy making us all behave.

EXACTLY!! Isn't that interesting? - nm

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