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Dislikes regarding "geting pie and eating it.."

Posted: Nov 11, 2012

Am I to assume that the dislikes regarding the post "...geting pie and eating it.." means that you think that government should have the right to force businesses to make decisions that will impact their profit? That becauses businessses should be frowned on for making decisions that will actually protect the people who already work for them in order to give others jobs that could cause the business to default? If businesses don't make profits then they don't stay open. People open businesses to MAKE MONEY, not to provide social services. I am speaking directly regarding Obamacare, this is not to open discussion in relation to this post regarding business taxes, that is a whole different isubject.

I am not "thinned skined" regarding dislikes, doesn't bother me at all, just truly trying to understand the logical side of your thinking.

;

Means, if a river is shifting its course and threatens - a neighborhood with flooding, should the

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government have the "right" to force it back into its original route?

What is so special about business and their potential profits that government should have no right to interfere if pursuing those profits would injure many people? Especially if it would injure hundreds of thousands and even hundreds of millions of people?

Somehow some people have been given the idea that all profits are sacred, money to be placed above all else. They've been deliberately frightened with promises that interfering with profits will ruin the economy. Now who could have been pushing that strange religion, and WHY? :) BTW? It's NOT small businesses, which without protection are ground into fertilizer components by big business.

Which suggests the question: DOES government have the right to protect large numbers of small businesses that big business has targeted for eradication so it can effectively monopolize the market? So it can sell the same 5 toasters from coast to coast in 3 different chain stores without competition?

Economists don't have problems answering these questions. They know that the notion that balance is the normal state of unregulated economies is nonsense, that they require continued adjustment to work well.

If government protections make one route not profitable enough, businessmen will invest somewhere else. And that's often quite all right. But usually they just accept higher costs and lower profits as part of doing business. Because that's the way it is, and they know it. Except when they can frighten large groups of well-meaning people into insisting the rules be broken for them.

My take on - "Means if a river is shifting.."

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YOUR COMMENT: What is so special about business and their potential profits that government should have no right to interfere if pursuing those profits would injure many people? Especially if it would injure hundreds of thousands and even hundreds of millions of people?

My Reply: We live in a democracy currently. Government does not give out the money to start business and does not take the risk of failure. Perfect example of what is desired by many a "Socialistic" government.

YOUR COMMENT: Somehow some people have been given the idea that all profits are sacred.

My reply: PROFITS ARE SACRED, profits drive new investments.

YOUR COMMENT: BTW? It's NOT small businesses, which are very frequently ground into fertilizer components by big business. Which suggests the question: DOES government have the right to protect large numbers of small businesses

My reply: Let me tell you about small businesses, my husband has one. His business is subcontractor in building. Business was thriving until GREAT influx of illegal immigrants to our area. Now a legal immigrant will start a business and then that person hires 20 illegal immigrants which do not pay taxes, nor does he have to pay payroll taxes. So he underbids the legitimate business such as my husband's. Now car drives up with man in a suit.....AH...20 workers start running to the woods... Now PLEASE tell me where is the government, certainly not here supporting my husband or making an effort to solve the problem. I wonder if you have any idea what impact the influx of illegal immigrants has made on our economy.

YOUR COMMENT: Economists don't have problems answering these questions. They know that the notion that balance is the normal state of unregulated economies is nonsense.

My reply: Garbage in garbage out....of course it depends on which category of Economist you listen to and trust. Economists send out fear making predictations almost daily. Number crunchers can make the numbers look almost anyway they want to.

YOUR COMMENT: But usually they just accept higher costs and lower profits as part of doing business. Because that's the way it is, and they know it. Except when they can frighten large groups of well-meaning people into insisting the rules be broken for them.

My Reply: So business as usual, just suck up the costs. Business is not allowed to say, "Enough is enough." And, my BTW, business didn't ask for the rules to be broken, the rules were made for them and they will each individually have to choose how to follow them. If Obamacare had truly wanted to force business to offer health care, it would have stipulated far much greater consequences than it does. For example, my company employs around 9,000 employees. They could choose to pay the $180,000 penalty....I assure you a massive less amount than the cost to furnish us healthcare. Obamacare wants everyone under government control, making it easy for employers to do exactly what some are doing...forcing people into a healthcare plan regulated by the government. And, I am not afraid of losing my healthcare. I trust my employer to realize what is important in recruiting highly intelligent and desirous workers.

I wouldn't dream of trying to change your mind, but I - don't mind arguing a bit.

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It does seem that we are in agreement that keeping low-pay immigrants from being brought in to undercut businesses staffed with legal residents is where government may intervene for the good of society as a whole--even if it would KILL a lot of businesses and cut bitterly into the profits of the remainder. Although...sacred profits...! So, how DO you justify this? Kind of a pick-and-choose sacredness?

BTW, don't look to liberals to blame for your problems. Fine upstanding American entrepreneurs, LOTs of them of all political persuasions, set aside whatever principles they have to create those jobs for illegals because they could be exploited big time. Why? To maximize profits, of course, in the very purest spirit of the "profits are sacred" mentality.

Oh? Your facile dismissal of all mainstream international economic thought as "GIGO? You even managed to trash Adam Smith, the "father" of capitalist theory, of which you apparently believe only the parts that suit you should be allowed to rule us all unchecked.

WHO fed you this garbage, anyway? And WHY did they? Always look for the motive. Who gains? A clue--look to your business. It's not you.

Read a little history - oabo

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"The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair comes to mind. Although a novel, a very accurate portrayal of what it was like to work in the early part of the 20th century. Surely child labor laws had an impact on company profits as did limiting the working hours for adults and instituting safe working conditions. All have an impact on profits. Would you like to see those conditions again?

Once again take to an extreme - Talking strictly about Obamacare

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x

Not that extreme - oabo

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At the time those policies were enacted they met the same sort of resistance with the same sort of arguments.

Exactly. The very same arguments from the very - same mindset. nm

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x

After 6 years of...sm - JTBB

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Getting Obama elected, supporting his/our causes, donating, volunteering time, arguing our case, defending our president, and now getting him re-elected, guess what? We made that pie, and it's ours to eat. The people have spoken and what they have said is that they want the rich to pay a little more, they want Obamacare, they want to keep our social programs (with improvement), etc. That's called a mandate. Live with it.

After 6 years of cheating, lying, deceit and fraud - Obama "wins"

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That's called the Dems/Libs. Sad honest, hardworking people are forced to put up with the communists and their leader (not mine). The communists and the imploding of their leader's assanine polices will be hurt so many innocents. All you little commies will write it off as collateral damage.

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