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Posted: Jan 23, 2013

It's not from any of my usual hangouts (redstate.com), but the term "outrage pimps" was too good to resist.

;

Good guy. We could use him around here. More everywhere, - for that matter. A dem nm

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x

One problem for rational conservatives is that no one - is stepping out to really define that these days.

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There are good people talking about just this, but theirs' are not the voices that rise above the yammering. They have to be looked for and found by those who care enough to do so.

Too bad for the Republicans this commentary - bootstraps

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will fall on deaf ears.

This guy makes perfect sense and the colorful metaphors work ;-)

too bad you can't do the same - ""Make perfect sense""

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;D

it was a really lovely article. Anyone would love it. - sm

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not a lot to pick on here.

Grits, thanks for posting - what a terrific essay!

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I am bowled over by this writer's point of view. What a brilliant essay.

I loved the image of "happy warriors selling better ideas." That's my fondest, most hopeful view of statesmen.

I miss real Republicans - Fanatical Hypocrite

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I remember a time when we had major social debates about the role of government, the optimal tax rate and whether or not fetuses should be able to carry guns. Unfortunately, while I never subscribed to the party of fiscal conservatism, I didn't want to see them spiral into madness as they have and always saw them as an important counterpoint/check and balance. The Tea Party has hijacked the Republican Party.

I'm so sick of the conspiracy theories and the vile attitude from Republican imposters. I have plenty of friends that are real Republicans. We disagree on a lot of fundamental issues. I have two friends that don't even believe in evolution. They think I'm narrow minded for not accepting the possibility that every couple million years God dumps off a pile of new animals and I tell them they need to learn to read:) While we poke fun at each other, we know that the other isn't evil or stupid or hates America. Intelligence can only be invested in so much, so we each have blind spots. That and "truth" can be hard to determine. Human perception is frail and flawed.

Both sides of the aisle are made of up good people who want the best for their country and their families. The problem is the lunatic fringe always attract the media. The person with the reasoned debate or the genuine ideas is drowned out by the loudest idiot in the room. The left is far from immune. It also causes a snowball effect. You turn on the news and hear doom and destruction and paranoia and it eventually seeps into more rational people. I think if I watched Fox News 24/7 I'd go nuts. I'd be wearing a tin foil hat and hording gold for those oft heralded end times.

Admittedly, it's nothing new. Millenarianism and similar doom worship are a part of society dating back to the first caveman who was scorned by his peers and started hoping everyone would burn in hellfire as revenge. Propaganda, hate speech and political mudslinging are nothing new either. Still, seems like the last couple years have been worse than usual. Hard to tell though, the country has been divided for most of its history in some form or another. I really wish we could dissolve the party system altogether. Politics shouldn't be a sport with opposing teams.

breath of fresh air - aaahhhhhh

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It's simple. Debating/arguing with a liberal is a - waste of time. They only listen to themselves.nm

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nm

Have you ever changed your - Fanatical Hypocrite

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opinion from a conservative one to a liberal one? I'm genuinely curious. If so, what? If you accuse others of being close-minded, you must be one open to all ideas.

I must admit that I'm fairly close-minded since I can't think of a major issue that I've changed sides on, so to speak. But I don't really see either side doing that.

Nor is it necessary to agree to adopt another person's viewpoint in order for both sides to get along. Free speech, compromise and a good fences make good neighbors policy are the bedrock of democracy.

Once upon a time I "crossed the aisle" on the ballot - virtually every election, more often to

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retain good people than on issues, but now and then on issues too, especially economic ones.

The thing is, the Republican party hadn't moved far to the right then. It spanned the spectrum from middle of the road to far right, clustering mainly in the middle, merging there with their largest group of fellow moderate liberal citizens. That's where I was.

There wasn't this big gulf between, frankly, generally sensible mainstream positions that both sides could come together on and the incompetent, extremist disaster the GOP became.

Using the power of an oncoming natural shift to greater conservatism (global, not just here), the GOP was taken over by mostly social and religious conservatives, their strings actually pulled by a crowd of amoral wealthy men whose bottom line was a wealth and power grab.

What I'm saying is, I haven't voted the right side of the ballot in probably over 15 years, but it's not because I've become rigid and unchangeable, it's because there's a giant chasm to my right and almost nothing but bad, unworkable choices and incompetent candidates on the far side. I'm not exaggerating on that last--the teapartiers and their backers have been busy running off some of the last remaining competent legislators who, by definition, couldn't go along with them.

The problem today isn't with reasonable conservatives, progressives leaning both ways, and liberals. Let's keep that clear, because you can't fix a problem if you don't recognize it. The problem is with both those who went far right and fell through the looking glass and with the wealthy, mostly libertarian profiteers who've been using "the base" to keep We the People from stopping them from sacking our country.

A dem

Bingo! You nailed it. Excellent post! - nm

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I listened to the conservative who wrote this article. - He has something worth saying. nm

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This thread proves you wrong. - grits

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Have you read the responses from avowed liberals? We are finding all kinds of sense in what this Republican is saying. It would behoove you to pay attention, if you care about your party's ideals the way you say you do.

Or, you know, you could just dismiss him as a RINO and go on about your day. If enough of you do that, the Dens will keep on winning elections, but we'll all become more entrenched and the works will become even more gummed up with BS. What do you want?

Tea Party - RC

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I feel the same way about the Tea Party, FH. I would be highly annoyed by their prominence if I were Conservative.

I may be Liberal, but there are some Liberals out there that are too much for me. I think the Occupy movement was disorganized and lacking any sort of game plan. I still don't know what the goal was. They destroyed property and created anarchy.

The Vagina Ladies? (I don't remember what they called themselves). They REALLY upset me. As a woman who has donated and volunteered at Planned Parenthood for over a decade, I think I deserved better representation than a bunch of riled up women running around in vagina costumes. Ridiculous.

This isn't just a rant on Liberal groups I disagree with, it's also how I see the Tea Party. These groups seem to be competing at who can be the most ridiculous.

What I don't understand is why more people don't have the rationality to look at them and say "those people are craaaazy!" Instead, they blindly support them because they're on "my side."

ARG!

Well, the Tea Party is a powerful, destructive national movement, - Occupy a small, rather silly one destined to

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fall apart, or morph, for just the reasons you stated. (Silly kids apparently thought all that was needed was to point out a problem to the unenlightened and light bulbs would go on over everyone's heads.)

The others mentioned, though? Without the Web, the only people who'd know about the vagina ladies would be those who took Time or Newsweek and read a small, entertaining paragraph on their activities in some issue. :)

So, back to what, IMO, matters in these mentioned? The Tea Party. Because a large group of organized, dedicated authoritarian followers being lead by a few men willing to bring our country to ruin for profit is a VERY, VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.

I agree with your take in general, but it just seems to me that any attempt to "balance" discussion of this right wing threat with a pile of little left wing groups on the other side of the scale is like trying to balance a pack of wolves with a truckload of crates of chickens.

A dem.

To me, the difference is - imo

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This is just my opinion, but it seems like the groups mentioned on the left--their activities are outrageous as a means to an end--to amplify a logical, common sense message or policy. The liberal movements, to me anyhow, don't seem to be bent on defining the Democratic Party by a left-wing arm agenda, and the Democratic Party wouldn't allow it anyhow.

On the other hand, the Tea Party movement doctrines--from very simply stated ideals to those deeply embedded in phrases and words designed to mean the opposite--are deeply and rigidly held as absolute by the participants/followers, even though mainstream USA has moved on with more "liberal" concepts such as tolerance. And somehow this has seeped into our government.

Rather than being an enhancement or a voice of the people, it has burrowed into and has become a part of the Party.

It actually didn't start out like that, though. The Tea Party did start out as a movement, which is how it should have remained, like Occupy, but right-wing Republicans, it seems, hijacked the Tea Party and the Tea Party became part of the Republican Party, rather than a separate entity as a voice of the citizens.

Republican politicians watched as the train started rolling and then they hopped on, took over, and are now in control of the train. Imagine if Democrats had done the same with Occupy.

Tea Party started as grass roots Libertarian - RC

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Before it morphed into the current Republican situation. It should have stayed Libertarian, but Ron Paul refused to run under the Libertarian ticket, thus beginning the Republican takeover.

When the TP started, it was also leaderless. It had great energy and - commitment (the right's big strengths),

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though, and from the first reports of its organization I wondered who would take it over. That this movement would be put to use by some strong interest was inevitable. My own best guess was that the religious right would take it over, but I was only partially right, and mostly wrong. (I didn't realize at that point that the evangelical movement had peaked some time before and was on the decline.)

There's been plenty of time now for social scientists to study all this stuff and report on what they've found.

The TP did morph from a mostly economic conservative/libertarian membership to a mostly social conservative one of very strongly authoritarian followers (who by their nature mostly also consider themselves religious).

The GOP leadership tried to take control but failed. Religious right leaders tried to take control but failed.

The power group that took control was those wealthy men who moved in by funding its growth and thus directing its activities. The Koch brothers and groups they're involved with (like ALEC, a big, big player that's been choosing and funding people for elective office since the 1970s), are believed to be the big string pullers. Examine their economic interests and political preferences as new issues arise, and you will know what the Tea Party's positions will be.

You took the words right out of my mouth - grits

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Particularly your last sentence. A good thing you did, too, because you're much more eloquent than I. Great post.

I have always found you to be eloquent, grits - RC

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And I agree that "imo" also hit the nail on the head.

I think that as long as the fringe groups still make the majority of us wince, we will be alright. :)

There's hope for us yet :) - grits

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And thank you for the compliment. I do all right when I have time to think about what I want to say, but everything you see from me has been proofed and edited to death in order to achieve coherence :D

Thanks for publicly sharing - your lovefest, RC & grits.

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BFF ;)

Well...This board needs all the love it can get. - LOL (nm)

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.

Well, this beats sockpuppet allegations. - grits

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I'll take it!

I share the sentiment - imo

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I'm not really "imo," but it seems when I use my moniker, I'm personally attacked (as above in this thread). I can take the personal attacks, but it detracts from the conversation, and the discussion is what we're about, right?

Maybe I've been too abrasive (although I like to think of it as passionate LOL) in some of my posts, but it's about the message, not the messenger. :-)

Anyhow... love reading all ya'll's posts too!!!

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And now, for something *completely* different