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This can't be good for Obama

Posted: Jul 23, 2012

None other than Hugo Chavez is singing his praise. Choose your friends wisely. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/chavez-romney-obama-good/2012/07/23/id/446262;

Good try, but.... - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
Chavez trying to cash in on Obama's popularity doesn't exactly equate to them being BFFs...lol.

I wonder... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
if Chavez and Obama have an on-again/ off-again type relationship? I believe it was last year when Chavez said, "Obama is a shame and the biggest disappointment for the poor and communities of African descent in the US who believed in him when he took office." Maybe that is why Obama gutted the Welfare System {our tax dollars}, and made it easier for people on Welfare to stay home and not look for a job. Obama doesn't want to help the people who are on welfare {our tax dollars}to become independent, but he wants to create a permanent voting block. The people {some - not all}who are on welfare are so thankful for Obama and our tax dollars, and find it easier to stay on welfare than get a job. As someone else {Trigger Happy, I believe} said here - "Dependency breeds inability."

Thank you for listening.

I don't think there's much of any kind of - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
"relationship." Chavez was raising a stink about Obama last year because Obama had criticized Venezuela for its ties with Islamic Republic of Iran. Now Chavez loves him because Obama says he isn't a threat and Chavez is trying to get re-elected. Off the cuff, I really don't know how much access citizens of his country have to US news, but it's blatantly obvious to me like Chavez is just playing the Obama card for popularity.

Could you explain this statement please? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
" Maybe that is why Obama gutted the Welfare System {our tax dollars}, and made it easier for people on Welfare to stay home and not look for a job.

Obama dropped requirement - for Welfare recipients

[ In Reply To ..]
to look for work, any work, on Welfare. Just keep taking the govt check, no string attached. Obama making it easier and easier to get Welfare, stay on Welfare, no personal accountability regarding actual need. Great way to screw the poor over that really need the benefit and give to the lazies.

LOL...point missed..nm - JTBB

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Point missed - Only by you. LOLOL indeed

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Thank you to above poster... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you for your assistance...just got back on computer now. In addition, the GAO reported that several states listed as part of their definition of federal work activity under TANF things such as Bedrest, Personal Care activities,Massage, Journaling, Smoking cessation, Helping a friend or relative with household tasks and errands. That is when Obama with an Executive Order and without the inclusion of the Senate and House of Reps. allowed the states to waive the federal work requirement. So, Journaling, Smoking cessation, Helping a friend or relative with household tasks and errands, etc. can be defined as work. We are paying for these folks to do these things and receive welfare {our tax dollars}.

Thank you.

GOP retroactivity in high gear. GAO report you cite - is from 2005

[ In Reply To ..]
which blows your following statement to kingdom come:

"That is when Obama with an Executive Order and without the inclusion of the Senate and House of Reps. allowed the states to waive the federal work requirement."

There is even more deception in the recent GOP Finance Committee release wingers are currently obsessing over. For example, using the word "listed." The appropriate word would be "proposed," since all state program initiatives must be in compliance with the stated goals of Section 402 of the Social Security Act. Oversight on state program compliance requires DHHS to sign off on them. Just because a STATE "listed" those activities does not mean those things were ever approved, much less implemented. If you have evidence to the contrary, by all means, do tell. You could start by specifying those states which define TANF work requirements in ways you claim they do....past or present.

Another misleading component of the recent GOP FC release is something you obviously fell for hook, line and sinker. The hyperbolic reference to "executive fiat" does not translate into Executve Order and, even if it did, (once again) it could not have been Obama's since this GAO report is from 2005. There is no Executive Order involved. The fact is this current change is coming from the Secretary of DHHS, since it is SHE who is authorized to issue these guidelines in Section 1115 by that same Social Security Act. This in no way "bypasses" Congress since....well, they passed the Social Security Act that gave her that authority, huh? All of this has already been discussed in detail in other thread posts and links have been provided. Again, if you have Obama's Executive Order number, please share, and I will then stand corrected.

Face it. This is another manufactured GOP dust-up that falls apart, even on the most cursory inspection, under the weight of its own BOGUS false premise.

brava!! - nm

[ In Reply To ..]

GOP Retroactivity... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, the GAO report was from 2005 because the link to the letter that was sited in the previous post was from 2005. I don't understand your complaint.

Please read my Reply below to Read para 2... All of it applies to your Reply to me as well. You will find my closing argument on this subject.

Thank you for your time.
Liberty

It's simple. 2005 is when the GOP supported this waiver. - That's why the letter has that date

[ In Reply To ..]
and that's when Romney et al signed onto the idea. Fast forward to 2012 and suddenly, because the Obama Administration DHHS is issuing the exact same directive, those same governors, including the current GOP candidate, are suddenly struck with selective and collective amnesia over their own support and are mischaracterizing the policy they evidently understood very well in '05 and, in fact, wholeheartedly endorsed.

Have you had any luck locating Obama's PRESIDENTIAL executive order which you claim the GAO report is referring to? Hint: When the GAO report was released in 2005, Obama was a senator.

Obama's Executive Order - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
Obama signed the Executive Order on July 13th of 2012 when he was president, so, yes, I guess you could say I had some luck in locating the date of the Executive Order.

Thanks.
Liberty

OMG, no he didn't. An DHHS policy directive is not - an executive order.

[ In Reply To ..]
This first link below is to RedState, a conservative source I am sure you are familiar with. On line 3-4 in their article, the link designated as "policy directive" takes you to the exact same link I provided in a prvious post where you can fully inspect the TANF INFO MEMO (the one you told me earlier you did not have time to read), dated July 12, 2012 (link 2 below). Please note it was signed by George Sheldon, who is the DHHS Assistant Secretary to Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. Also, pleae note that the Red State article ERRONEOUSLY refers to this policy directive as an "executive order" in the title of thier piece, as literally hundreds of other right-wing outlets have done.

Link 3 will take you to another conservative blog that keep up-to-date records on all of Obama's EOs. You will see that they list an EO on 07/11 and on 07/20, but nothing for 07/13.

Finally, link 4 is to the White House site for EOs. You will not find anything remotely related to TANF there either.

I have provided you with 4 sources. If you, in fact, have located an executive order, it should have a number and a title, which you have cleverly and conveniently omitted....perfectly understandable, since there is no such animal. You have been taken in by conservative media which is trying to call this DHHS policy memo a presidential EO when, in fact, it is nothing more than a routine interoffice communication.

BTW, you also have not reconciled the retroactive date discrepancy between the 2005 state "listing" of alleged definitions of work requirements reported by the GAO, which you originally tried to attribute to President Obama's alleged, imaginary, non-existent, fictitious EO.

http://www.redstate.com/politicalwoman/2012/07/13/changing-america-one-waiver-one-executive-order-at-a-time/

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/policy/im-ofa/2012/im201203/im201203.html

http://1461days.blogspot.com/2009/01/current-list-of-president-obamas.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders

Was that one of those instances - when Senator Obama

[ In Reply To ..]
voted "Present?"

As a matter of fact, he was present and - cast a definitive vote

[ In Reply To ..]
I'll leave it to you to find out whether it was yay or nay. I have better things to do than reseach for those who choose willful ignorance over informed dialog.

Romney supported welfare work requirement waiver - as MS gov

[ In Reply To ..]
Obama didn’t gut anything, regardless of what Mitt, Fox and scores of GOP hypocrites are trying to peddle.

DHHS Secy exercised HER authority under Sec 1115 of the SS Act to waive compliance with section 402 requirements to allow states to propose and develop new strategies and give states more flexibility to implement programs more tailored to their specific needs....something governors from both parties have been requesting for years. Romney was one of those governors who supported this policy. So did Jeb Bush, Mike Huckabee, Haley Barbour, Arnold Schwartzeneggar, and GOP Nevada Gov Kenny Guinn. Says so in plain English on page 2, paragraph 2 of the letter they signed back in 2005 (link 1). It advocates increased waiver authority, a broader definition of allowable work activities, and allowing states to better coordinate their own programs.

Former Wisconsin GOP Gov Tommy Thompson: "Abandoning work requirements will return our nation to the days of rampant welfare abuse and incentivize an underground economy where abusers take a government check while also engaging in illicit commerce of all kinds." This is the identical policy he promoted while serving as Secretary of Health and Human Services under President Bush (link 2).

“Obama’s” change is meant to address the failure of the current program in exactly the same way to better assist recipients who find themselves caught in an endless loop of poverty, rigid guidelines, barriers to employment opportunities and red tape. These are poor excuses for effective education, training, job preparation and placement strategies in order to gain meaningful employment that pays a living wage and moves them from dependence to self-sufficiency.

How does volunteering 35 hours per week get TANF folks off assistance? Does requiring unskilled persons with no job experience to conduct never-ending job searches for positions they are not qualified for get them off assistance? Can a single mom with kids get health care or child care, house, feed, clothe, and educate them while being paid minimum wage? Those are essentially the only 3 criteria currently used to define TANF work requirements. The guidelines issued by the Secretary of DHHS do nothing to eliminate these standards. They simple seek to expand the definition of what fulfills TANF work requirement by including education and job training (link 3).

http://democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/112/2005_Romney_Letter.pdf

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/other/238819-tommy-thompson-once-supported-waivers-under-welfare-reform

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/policy/im-ofa/2012/im201203/im201203.html

To: Romney supported... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
I am a bit short on time this AM, but will try to write a response. This letter you posted a link to is these Republican Governors are asking the House and Senate to re-authorize the TANF legislation. Congress reformed the federal cash assistance program in 1996 and renamed it TANF. The liberals in Congress refused to reauthorize the law and states fround loopholes to get around the work requirements. This letter states "The House and Senate have not been able to come to an agreement on reauthorizing the legislation." Again, this letter to Frist is asking them to come to an agreement and reauthorize TANF. The GAO study I sited previously was done in 2005 and it stated that states were reporting things like Massage, Personal Care Activities, Journaling, etc. as WORK - i.e loopholes.

I apologize, I am out of time right now and I will finish this when I have more time - later this afternoon.

Thank you.
Liberty

Read para 2 page 2 entitled - State Flexibility

[ In Reply To ..]
Then review link 3, which is the current guidelines directive issued by the DHHS secretary, when you have more time (it's a long read). Review Tommy Thompson's tenure as Secy of DHHS under Bush. BTW, his other Secy of DHHS promoted the same cause. Those links are easy to retrieve from Google. Finally, take a look at this Fox article provided by VTMT

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/23/house-gop-questions-legal-grounds-for-changes-to-welfare-work-requirements/

Same language, same policy, same support, based on the same concept... state flexibility. There are plenty more links reporting on GOP support for this, which really should not be required. It's a given that the GOP is all about state's rights. Providing them with discretion and leeway on their own TANF work requirement criteria does not equate to gutting work requirements just because a democrat suggested it.

The GOP needs to stop trying to have it both ways. Insisting that cold is hot and hot is cold is not going to help advance Romney's campaign, but they are free to continue along that path if they choose. I hope they do, since debunking these notions and showcasing the hypocrasy is really, really easy.

To: Read para 2... - Liberty

[ In Reply To ..]
I am really time constrained here. Since I read your letter that you provided a link to, I am suggesting that you go to Heritage.org, click on research, scroll down and you will see a FACTSHEET on July 23, 2012. Also, you can go to Filter Research, click on FACTSHEETS and then search for whatever you wish. I site facts, not blogs, forums, and TV programs. If you choose not to believe what is on the Heritage website, that is certainly your choice.

My final and closing argument: All I know is that I am almost 60 years old. I have seen that the Welfare programs which were implemented in the 60s have not done this country any good. More people are on welfare than before so the programs we have aren't working. There is so much fraud and abuse, and these are programs run by the government. The government can't run these programs effectively. You can't just keep pouring money into something that doesn't work. I should say: I refuse to let the government keep taking MY money and throwing it into programs that aren't working and allowing my money to be used in a wasteful manner.

From the Declaration of Independence:"...and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

Thank you for your time.
Liberty

Hugo Chavez leads - Commie Obammie cheerleaders

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Commies always find each other ;) Just scan this board.

Not quite. Hugo Chavez leads the 5th largest - oil producing OPEC nation

[ In Reply To ..]
that has more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and is the second largest natural gas reserves in the western hemisphere. The majority of OPEC nations are either socialist and Islamic republics or monarchies. Because of our continued oil dependence and lack of political resolve to progress beyonda long-term unsustainable dependence on fossil fuels, the US cannot pick and choose who they do business with. Most grownups recognize and accept that reality.

IMO, Chavez is probably more repulsed by the GOP’s sharp right turn of late than he is enamored with any one individual democratic leader. After all, despite all of our chest-beating about being the world’s beacon of democracy, the shrub did recognize the coup-installed interim president Pedro Carmona back in 2002….who was in power for a mere 47 hours! Venezuela has pretty much dialed back its economic ties with the US and taken its business elsewhere since that happened.

Rule number 1 for responsible leadership in any nation, regardless of what form of political, legal or economic system they have, is not to bow down to puppet leadership installed or empowered by former colonial masters who refuse to acknowledge the decades of evolution away from that era that have transpired.

Mitt didn't exactly jump for joy after W - climbed back into the swamp

[ In Reply To ..]
long enough to give him his kiss of death and he'll be carting Cheney's foreign policy seal-of-approval abatross with him across the pond this week and for the duration of his 15 minutes.

If trolling the swamp, must still - be looking for Obammie

[ In Reply To ..]
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