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The restoration of shame

Posted: Jun 10, 2015

Via Huffington Post

One of the reasons more young women are giving birth out of wedlock and more young men are walking away from their paternal obligations is that there is no longer a stigma attached to this behavior, no reason to feel shame. Many of these young women and young men look around and see their friends engaged in the same irresponsible conduct. Their parents and neighbors have become ineffective at attaching some sense of ridicule to this behavior. There was a time when neighbors and communities would frown on out of wedlock births and when public condemnation was enough of a stimulus for one to be careful...

Oh wait, sorry. That was Jeb Bush in his book "Profiles in Character." The chapter is called "The restoration of shame."

Also too, this:

For many, it is more shameful to work than to take public assistance -- that is how backward shame has become!

In the context of present-day society we need to make kids feel shame before their friends rather than their family. The Miami Herald columnist Robert Steinback has a good idea. He suggests dressing these juveniles in frilly pink jumpsuits and making them sweep the streets of their own neighborhoods! Would these kids be so cavalier then?

He'll be running as a compassionate conservative, no doubt.

Via Huffington Post

"One of the reasons more young women are giving birth out of wedlock and more young men are walking away from their paternal obligations is that there is no longer a stigma attached to this behavior, no reason to feel shame. Many of these young women and young men look around and see their friends engaged in the same irresponsible conduct. Their parents and neighbors have become ineffective at attaching some sense of ridicule to this behavior. There was a time when neighbors and communities would frown on out of wedlock births and when public condemnation was enough of a stimulus for one to be careful..."

Oh wait, sorry. That was Jeb Bush in his book "Profiles in Character." The chapter is called "The restoration of shame."

Also too, this:

For many, it is more shameful to work than to take public assistance -- that is how backward shame has become!

In the context of present-day society we need to make kids feel shame before their friends rather than their family. The Miami Herald columnist Robert Steinback has a good idea. He suggests dressing these juveniles in frilly pink jumpsuits and making them sweep the streets of their own neighborhoods! Would these kids be so cavalier then?

He'll be running as a compassionate conservative, no doubt.

;

There are a lot of people out there who agree - Sadly ...

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completely to the frilly pink jumpsuits. That attitude ignores the stigma which was attached to the child which has disappeared.

I certainly do not support the shaming of unwed mothers - but..

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but I am very disturbed over increasing numbers of multiple children fathered by multiple fathers. There is little future for both mothers and children when these patterns become a way of life.

The one way families can lift themselves out of poverty is by limiting the size of their families. Jocelyn Elders, former Surgeon General, stated on NPR last week that babies having babies will only continue to perpetuate the cycle of poverty. She is absolutely right.

Conservative Role Models: That little Duggar family - sm

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I remember that stupid woman Jocelyn Elders. She was the Surgeon General that President Clinton fired for telling an AIDS forum that she believed masturbation was part of human life and "perhaps should be taught" to schoolchildren. She also wanted to legalize drugs and pass out condoms to 5-year-olds. A total loon, in my opinion, and President Clinton was absolutely right to fire her.

I personally think that Americans should limit our families to maybe 19 kids (and counting) like those nice conservative role models, that little Duggar family. LOL. :)

Another viewpoint to the story, the vindictiveness of the police chief - who leaked the story is another

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story in and of itself. While I think the family was terribly misguided when dealing with their son years ago, the gay police chief where the Duggars live leaked the story because Michelle stopped an ordinance that would have FORCED businesses and churches to accept gays and trans-genders in their businesses. The Duggars were blamed for the failure of the ordinance.

Within 2 weeks of the controversy, the transgender church/business issue back up again. Now that they have the Duggars out of the way.. the ordinance is theirs to pass without interference.

The story behind the story.

Addendum to above, I hope I was careful in the way I worded things, I'm not - defending the Duggars, but it

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was illegal to release the said documents. The law states it is illegal to identify minor victims of sexual assault “directly or indirectly”and he was 14 when this happened. My post is simply explaining why this was brought up now, 10 years after the fact.

She should be charged but won't be. She is retiring anyway. - She knew exactly how to hurt

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them and get away with it.

I think there can be civil penalties against her for what she did, and in a sane world, criminal penalties.

The other side is the somewhat important fact that Josh Duggar did everything he is accused of doing, but
I'm jaded. I've seen too many low level public servants get away with abuse of power.

The coincidence is just too timely. I agree. - I know the rumors had been

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around for a long time.

Josh Duggar wasn't exactly a victim regardless of what age he was. - State the obvious

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The records were obtained through Arkansas' Freedom of Information Act, one of the most liberal open records laws in the entire country. Following the FOIA law, the names of the victims were blacked out. A second record was also released under Arkansas' FOIA that came from the Washington County Sheriff's Office, and the Springdale police chief has no involvement in deciding if those records can be released. The Duggar's spinning of the "personal agenda" explanation for the first report's release loses all credibility considering another police report detailing Josh's multiple crimes was released through FOIA by a completely different department with no alleged agenda.

So sorry and pitiful that right-wing media only gives people the part of the story that fits their "we are victims" agenda. The two separate entities released the records as required under Arkansas' FOIA law with the names of the victims blacked out. The only people who "outed" the victims were the actual victims themselves when they self-identified on Fox News Channel. Those are the facts.

I never read the word victim in the posts above. All I read was - the story behind the leak and the

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poster said Josh Duggar was guilty. I never read anything about Fox News either.

Here, let me help you. - State the obvious

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The poster I responded to said: "The law states it is illegal to identify minor *****VICTIMS***** of sexual assault 'directly or indirectly' and he was 14 when this happened."

The Arkansas' Freedom of Information Act doesn't exempt the records of concluded investigations when the names of the perpetrator and the victims are redacted and when the offender has reached adulthood and in regard to which there are no court orders forbidding the release.

The names of the victims and the names of the perpetrator were all blacked out according to Arkansas' FOIA law and were released after consultation with multiple agencies and even after informing the Duggars first. Since the names on the FOIA were blacked out before the reports were released, the only people who "outed" the names of the victims were the actual victims themselves. I didn't exactly choose what news channel they decided to out themselves on; that was their choice for obvious reasons since Fox News is the widely known "we are just victims under attack by the lefties and their lefty agenda" news channel and has been for a long, long time. True fact. LOL.

Records are supposed to be sealed to protect the - underaged victims, at least

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it used to be that way.

Conservatives can take ANY story and turn it into a conspiracy. - sm

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Right-wing fringe media is going to spin ANY story whatever way they need to in order to twist it into conservatives being persecuted by somebody.

Where would conservatives be without their persecution and victimhood? That's why so many stories on right-wing fringe media are based on their "we are victims of lefties" rhetoric.

The constant whining from conservatives about them being the "real victims" is kind of pitiful, in my opinion, but it's that propaganda that they've been pushing for years now. Nothing new at all and quite transparent to anyone who pays the least bit attention.

Why so much constant rhetoric copied word for word from the "Free Republic" chat board? - sm

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I've been noticing for months and months now just how much rhetoric gets copied directly from the Free Republic website and posted directly to this one. It's a free country, of course, but I'm just curious as to why there are so many multiple posts copied from one forum and pasted word for word to this MT Stars "Politics" board?

Would the poster please offer some proof of this so-called "ordinance" that Michelle Duggar "stopped" or are we to just take the word of the blogger on Free Republic from which the story was copied?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the poster also posts there? I notice rhetoric here from Daily K - What difference does it make, to quote Hillary. nm

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nm

The Free Republic site has some fresh newer memes. - Is That You, Rand?

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You said: "Did it ever occur to you that maybe the poster also posts there? I notice rhetoric here from Daily K - What difference does it make, to quote Hillary."

Did it ever occur to you that I'm not talking about a poster posting similar comments on two different chat boards from one poster? I'm talking about multiple different posters from the Free Republic website having their comments copied and posted here word for word.

It's lots of different posters and not just one poster's comments being copied. The difference it makes is it's word-for-word copying of others comments and passing them off as one's own.

I found this link to some information and I also - heard Michelle on Kelly Files

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say the same thing.

http://conservativetribune.com/michelle-duggar-bombshell/

I've read comments from a site called "Addicting Info" - posted word for word, even

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the Democratic Underground.

Can't you just see the fingers flying checking out each - conservative post? nomsg

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no msg

I post there sometimes and so does my - husband, but I mostly just

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read the comments.

Same with Facebook. - NM

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NM

Here's an article where Jill states she was outraged at the leak - and it also mentions her husband's job

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might be in jeopardy. He "quit" his job as an accountant at Walmart, it says.

Okay. So I did find this. That ordinance had actually already been passed. - sm

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Quote: "Within 2 weeks of the controversy, the transgender church/business issue back up again. Now that they have the Duggars out of the way.. the ordinance is theirs to pass without interference."

This blogger from Free Republic has the facts wrong. The ordinance had actually already passed. Ordinance 119 prohibits discrimination in employment, housing, real estate transactions, city services, business transactions and public accommodations based on race, ethnicity, national origin, age (if 18 years of age or older), gender, gender identity, gender expression, familial status, marital status, socioeconomic background, religion, sexual orientation, disability or veteran status."

The interference to the ordinance actually came when the Duggars lobbied hard, including a robocall from Michelle Duggar, to actually try to stop the passage of the ordinance. Interesting language in the robocall that Michelle Duggar put out as the reason to oppose the anti-discrimination ordinance. (see link for audio)

"Hello, this is Michelle Duggar. I’m calling to inform you of some shocking news that would affect the safety of Northwest Arkansas women and children. The Fayetteville City Council is voting on an ordinance this Tuesday night that would allow men – yes I said men – to use women's and girls' restrooms, locker rooms, showers, sleeping areas and other areas that are designated for females only. I don’t believe the citizens of Fayetteville would want males with past child predator convictions that claim they are female to have a legal right to enter private areas that are reserved for women and girls. I doubt that Fayetteville parents would stand for a law that would endanger their daughters or allow them to be traumatized by a man joining them in their private space. We should never place the preference of an adult over the safety and innocence of a child. Parents, who do you want undressing next to your daughter at the public swimming pool’s private changing area? I still believe that we are a society that puts women and children first. Women, young ladies and little girls deserve to use the restroom or any other facility in peace and safety. Will you speak up for protecting women and children? Call 575-8330 and tell the Fayetteville City Council members and Mayor Jordan to vote ‘no’ on ordinance 119. The number again is 575-8330. For more information please go to www.freefayetteville.org. Paid for by freefayetteville.org."

*****

OMG! So the ordinance 119 then passed by the Fayetteville City Council but the Duggars then successfully later got it repealed by a 52-48 vote.

I can't say as I blame the town and Fayetteville City Council members for trying to get the repealed non-discrimination law passed yet again considering it was only repealed by a vote of 52-48 and listening to the robocall about child predators and just the sheer and utter hypocrisy of the entire issue.

Thank you for stating your opinion without the vulgar snark! - sm

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I have stayed away from this forum for a couple months now due to rude, vile comments as evidenced in the posts above yours. It has not been possible to have a rational adult discussion with some of the liberals on this board due to their nasty rhetoric learned from the likes of MSNBC, et al. Thank you for stating an opinion without offending anyone! I agree with you 100%!

Electing another Bush to the presidency would definitely be "the restoration of shame." - State the obvious

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Yes, while we're at it, we should bring back stoning too. What better way to "ridicule" and for society to display "public condemnation." *sarcasm alert*

I heard this was from 1995. - nm

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nm

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