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I'm venting ...
Posted: Dec 7, 2015
Not my words, just sharing it from another forum. Your thoughts about it?
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I'm venting, but the truth is this.
I carry a pistol in my purse, everywhere I go. I'm trained, and liscenced to carry it. I practice loading, cleaning, and shooting it at least once a month.
I will stand and fight. I will not be slaughtered, or stand by helpless while others are slaughtered.
I will go to jail before I allow this to be changed.
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;
I hope you don't meet up with a purse snatcher - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I hope I turn out to be wrong, but I won't be one bit surprised if I hear that someone takes your gun away from you and uses it on you. Equally, I won't be surprised if I hear that through some tragic mistake, you shoot the wrong person.
If it came to be that most women had guns in - their purses, snatchings would increase.
[ In Reply To ..]X
Do NOT Carry in a purse - sm
[ In Reply To ..]If you can't conceal it on your body its not worth it..there are a lot of options for women to conceal a weapon..just google around and find a holster your comfortable with
why conceal at all? I would want to know who is - packing around me
[ In Reply To ..]so I can remove myself immediately.
Never did understand why the conceal.
Are you concealers afraid of inciting something if you show your guns? Yep, you sure would.
Concealed weapons - RT
[ In Reply To ..]You have to abide by state laws. Some states only offer conceal licenses, while other allow out in the open carry. so it is not up to us, just follow the laws. I personally would rather my state be an out in the open carry, but it is not, it is a concealed weapon state.
What you describe above happens in this country - every single day. Another poster - sm
[ In Reply To ..]further down in this thread said we'd be surprised if we know how many people among us are concealed-carrying without us being the slightest bit aware. If that were true, then one would think that in some of the recent mass shootings there would've been an armed person in the group that could've "saved the day". If carrying a gun is so likely to save lives, why don't we hear about that more often?
Maybe because it's as rare as hens' teeth?
Hardly. As of 2014 there were 11.1 million Americans with permits - to carry concealed weapons
[ In Reply To ..]...and the number is undoubtedly much higher now.
Let's say 5% of the adult population. That fully explains the phenomenon that someone with a weapon wasn't present among the relatively small number of people present (there are also other factors other than mere probability, like the makeup of that sample of social workers), and yet it's hardly as "scarce as hen's teeth" either. If 5% of the population had tuberculosis, neither you nor any epidemiologist would consider it rare!
Let's put it in terms of something that is visible to you: About 9 million Americans use a wheelchair, walker, scooter, cane or crutches for mobility. Note that this is fewer than CCW permit holders.
1. Do you consider the use of mobility aids "rare" in America?
2. Can you now understand why, within any tiny sample of the American population, such as a workplace or even a packed movie theater, you might very well not find anyone present who is using a mobility device?
On the other hand, in some other venues, you might find a very high incidence of people using mobility devices, right?
Samples can be related to populations by probability methods, but all samples are not equal.
Nursing home: Probability?
NFL Combine tryouts: Probability?
Further influencing the outcome is the degree of certainty you specify. This relates to that "margin of error" thing you see all the time.
When you think about issues like these, resist the temptation to think off the top of your head or jump to conclusions. What seems reasonable or "logical" often is precisely the opposite. Research the facts and then analyze them in a proper logical framework in order to come to objective, supportable conclusions. Way too many people think they think, but they don't really think.
That's 11 million too many. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]xyz
can you site this stat please - and - Fact check your numbers
[ In Reply To ..]turnabout is fair play ya know.
venting - 1shopper
[ In Reply To ..]I am all for it. Good for her wanting to keep herself and family safe. In my part of the country every person I know has a gun, but not everyone carries them. If that deterrent makes her feel safe, then more power to her. This is why we still have the second amendment.
"Safe", as in how a CHP's 3-year-old found a - loaded rifle in his closet, and -
[ In Reply To ..]shot his 15-year-old brother? THAT kind of "safe"?
I'll pass.
Name an object and I'll find someone who killed - someone else with it.
[ In Reply To ..]What's that you say?
Pumpkin?
Here ya go.
So why do you think a gun protects you against - everything? It merely gives -
[ In Reply To ..]you roughly the same killing power as most creatively-used everyday objects, but with much harder-to-prove justification.
Well, hardly, but in any case the "justification" would - be exactly the same regardless of weapon.
[ In Reply To ..]Amazing how many people don't even seem to know the criminal law and yet feel qualified to teach it.
A homicide is a homicide, and the justification of the killing (usually, imminent fear of grave bodily harm and in most states defense of the domicile) is determined by a prosecutor's evaluation of the circumstances surrounding the killing.
It saddens me to live in a society with so many cowards - NM
[ In Reply To ..]..
You say "cowards" I say "fighters" - sm
[ In Reply To ..]For those who wish to own guns that seems unfair. Protecting one self does not feel cowardly. Seatbelts, helmets are not. Secure home etc... And depending where people live some have a good reason to feel threatened.
I think cowards are the ones that sit back and - sm
[ In Reply To ..]wait for someone to save them. I speak from experience, Im retired police officer. When seconds count, police are minutes away. There is nothing more frustrating to get a call and not be close enough to do anything. You can run lights and sirens, you can weave through traffic, fact of the matter is, it is rarely effective; all the while, your getting updates from dispatch who has your victim on the phone trying to calm them and you can't get to them..Then you get to walk into a person beaten, a lady raped, a child hurt, or a dead body..As a law enforcement officer, I wish every sane person in this country would take a gun class, get a permit, and train to protect yourself, because the police cannot be everywhere. If you had any idea how many cops are on the street in your city at any given time, like I know for fact, you would listen to my warning.
Bravo from another LEO. I posted below. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Each individual has the PRIMARY responsibility for his own safety. I bet if I polled this whole forum, there wouldn't be one person who could tell me what the average response time is for their own police department, and I'd bet even more that a lot of people would be surprised.
I, too, got frustrated responding to calls "too late" to take any preventive action, but that's the reality of police work.
Domestic calls were the second most frustrating aspect, and somewhat related to this with so many women who would call us but then would not take the difficult but essential steps to (a) prosecute and (b) get themselves out of the situation permanently. Repeat calls to the same homes were the rule, not the exception.
let's all go back to the - wild wild west days
[ In Reply To ..]and just start having shootouts every time you feel threatened or "unsafe" or perhaps looked at the wrong way, etc, etc.
I think we're already there. You can be shot - for driving too slow on the freeway.
[ In Reply To ..]Or wearing the wrong colors.
You can be shot by the police for being mentally ill.
You can be shot if someone wants your Air Jordans or your bicycle.
You can be shot because your kid found the key to your locked-up, unloaded pistol.
You can be shot because you decided to stop at McDonald's for coffee on the way home, or because you wanted to go see a movie.
You can be shot because it's New Year's Eve or 4th of July, and everyone in the neighborhood with a gun decided the thing to do would be to shoot into the air, and the bullet comes down through your ceiling.
When the cops all park their cars underneath freeway overpasses at midnight on New Year's Eve because it's raining bullets, I'd say this country has a problem.
No, let's all think in hysterically exaggerated terms. - Sounds like just as much fun.
[ In Reply To ..]It's called a straw man argument. Check it out.
oh you mean like Donald Trump - for instance?
[ In Reply To ..].
There are also cowards who shoot at anything - that moves. Like the police do.
[ In Reply To ..].
Lets have an unarmed police force - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
Let's have a better-trained police force. - X
[ In Reply To ..]
The main reason police are over-reacting to - situations is because of the - sm
[ In Reply To ..]prevalence of guns nationwide. One of the reasons so many felons have guns (since they aren't supposed to be able to just go out and buy them) is that with more "law-abiding citizens" owning them, when thieves break into a home or a car, or rob someone of their valuables on the street, they're more likely to find a gun, which is what they want most of all.
Some more civilized countries do. Peace officers - should practice peace, not urban war.
[ In Reply To ..]-
"Urban war"?? Oh, please - the hyperbole. - And there are NO police agencies
[ In Reply To ..]...in the world that are not armed. The configuration as to exactly how they're armed might differ, but they're armed just the same.
Shouldn't you be arguing for criminals to - "practice peace"??!!
[ In Reply To ..]Yeah, all dem dam police shooting all dem nice sweet peaceful gangbangers. It's a dam shame. That's what it is, uh-huh.
criminals obviously are not peacemakers - but police are supposed to be
[ In Reply To ..]shooting to apprehend and outright shooting to kill are entirely different. But its obvious by your attempt at accent in the style you wrote, you are racist and think its ok for police to just murder willy-nilly on the pretense of "fearing for their life." What's happening in Chicago is a classic example.
So who you gonna call then - ghostbusters, I imagine? - No, it will be the police.
[ In Reply To ..]And you know it.
no, they'll whip out their guns - of course
[ In Reply To ..]xx
Oyup. I'm skeert to death of them - po-leese.
[ In Reply To ..]The mind boggles.
This whole thread illustrates how out-of-touch - with reality the GOP and its followers are.
[ In Reply To ..]x x
In the course of any given day, the police in US have 10s of thousands - of citizen contacts - often the dregs.
[ In Reply To ..]In all those contacts x 365 per year, how many police shootings are there, percentage-wise? Come on. Do tell us.
Your slur on the police is both unwarranted and unappreciated.
Look at it this way - sm
[ In Reply To ..]There has been a war on drugs for how long now? And the drug culture has only grown and gotten worse. So ban guns, do you think guns will go away. No, there will be more held by criminals because they don't follow the laws anyway. And then take the drug war a step further and follow the money trail. IF the gvt really wanted drugs to be gone, they would be, its very easy..but they don't so makes you wonder who is profiting doesn't it? And if they make guns illegal, who do you think will ultimately profit?
Watch the news on any given night. The number - goes up every single day.
[ In Reply To ..].
Not at all true, of course, but if it were, what - conclusions do you jump to?
[ In Reply To ..]Police sometimes shoot people. It's part of their job, as unfortunate as that might be. What's your point?
My point is, every day more unarmed Americans - are getting gunned down by police.
[ In Reply To ..]Pretty simple point that even a Pub should be able to grasp.
This apocalypse the gunnies worry about so much - is so unlikely to happen to them,
[ In Reply To ..]they could put their angst to far better use by worrying about something more likely - like a zombie invasion.
Terrorism is hardly the only threat that people are considering. - But then, you knew that. nm
[ In Reply To ..]No further response warranted.
Weapon-toting clueless citizens is a bigger - threat, and its already happening.
[ In Reply To ..]x
x
x
Stop insulting people who think differently than you do. - One of these days...
[ In Reply To ..]...you might find yourself wishing very much that one of those "cowards" was around to save your life.
I will not carry a gun - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I never plan to own one. We are suffering all this street violence BECAUSE there are so many guns on the street--and every one of the gang-bangers who carries one does so because s/he doesn't want to be seen as a coward--s/he is AFRAID of being seen as a coward--and s/he wants to make sure that s/he will "get" any shooter who tries to take him/her out.
Carrying a gun to be "prepared" for violence only makes you look for violence. And people who look very often find. That, to me, is cowardice.
And that is your right not to own one - sm
[ In Reply To ..]but you will NOT take my RIGHT to own one and protect myself..Your assessment of gun violence is way wrong BTW because criminals dont follow laws. I have carried a gun for the past 33 years now, picked up my first one in the police academy and have never put it down. I dont look for violence, I have NEVER had to use it..but be well warned, if I have to I sure will. Because in the past 33 years this country has changed for the worst
NO ONE wants to take that right away - unless your weapon of choice
[ In Reply To ..]Is an assault rifle.
I think people who go to the trouble of becoming properly licensed and get training are fine. I have even thought about doing it myself, just for the heck of it (and I am a real leftie).
I don't have enough money to buy a gun though, much less the license and training part, so there's that.
I think the objection most of us have is all those yahoos who seem to leave their guns around for their little toddlers to shoot each other AND those idiots patrolling malls and shops in their open carry gear, etc., NOT people such as yourself.
It's not only criminals who cause the damage, but irresponsible and riled up gun nuts who behave as above.
Do you know what a semi automatic weapon is? - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
You are right - I corrected my post
[ In Reply To ..]I do NOT understand all the different types of guns and I see semiautomatics are the ones mostly used by individuals for protection and they are NOT the ones that shoot like a lot of bullets in a minute, right?
The ones used by people for protection I am for, the ones originally designed to be used in wars which shoot many bullets a minute - the ones which these killers in the mass shootings tend to use - should be banned.
I carry a 15 round semi auto - sm
[ In Reply To ..]it fires as fast as I can pull the trigger..so did my 6-shot revolver and when I ran out of bullets on the 6-shot I had speed loaders..We do not have a gun problem we have a MENTAL HEALTH problem and a criminal problem in this country..My state has the most assault rifle ownership in the country and I have yet to hear of an attack with one or a defense with one for that matter. The 2nd ammendment is put in place so that the citizenry can defend itself from a tyrannical government, much like we are on the verge of now...
even regular gun owners don't have mental health issues - until they SNAP that is
[ In Reply To ..]xxoo
and our president could snap - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and start a nuclear war...common sense people...there are over 2 million legal gun owneres in this country and thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo, if we were violent you would know it in a BIG way
355 mass shootings in 336 days - isn't violent??
[ In Reply To ..]zzzz
can you site this stat please,,, - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and also show that they were perpetrated by legally registered gun owners.
actually listen to or read any news lately? - gunnuts beieve what they want
[ In Reply To ..]http://www.today.com/news/355-mass-shootings-336-days-us-has-more-incidents-days-t59421
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/staggering-stats-there-have-been-more-mass-shootings-days-year-n473436
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-mass-shootings_565f58cfe4b08e945fedd47d
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/12/02/there-have-been-more-mass-shootings-this-year-than-days/nsbTfUlAAL6iyBh0KvHmhO/story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/03/mass-shootings-no-ones-sure-how-many.html
I could list many, many more but you still will tell me to fact check!!
Fact check your numbers - sm
[ In Reply To ..]they are not correct. That's been debunked. Can't paste the link from my phone. But Google works wonders
"Fact-check!" is a common, inane right-wing - reply when they have no other answers.
[ In Reply To ..]......................................
That is weird. I watch the news also. One - sm
[ In Reply To ..]would believe if those stats were true, all of us would see these "mass shootings" daily on the news. Name 10 "mass shootings" this year that made the news. I am more worried about being 18 trillion dollars in debt for my children and grandchildren. Nine trillion of that debt, 1/2 belongs to ONE President, Obama. He has put us into as much debt as ALL previous presidents combined! What a horrific legacy to leave our grandchildren to pay.
And... so could you. - Thats the problem.
[ In Reply To ..]xxx
I have snapped, that's why I still work at - Nuance
[ In Reply To ..]xxoo
LOL true have to wonder about my sanity too - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
One of many reasons why I don't think it's - wise for MTs to carry guns.....
[ In Reply To ..];D
only ex-cop MTs - right?
[ In Reply To ..]zzzz
ANY person in this country who is sane today, - has the potential to develop a - s/m
[ In Reply To ..]mental health problem. It can, and does, happen to anyone at any time, for a myriad of reasons.
Mental health care in this country sucks, so most mentally ill go undiagnosed and/or untreated or undertreated.
Compound that by arming the majority of regular, everyday citizens in the US, and you greatly increase the chances that someone who goes over the edge is also a gun-owner.
what are all these ex-cops doing on an MT site?? - very strange
[ In Reply To ..]unless they are all MTs now making min wage for fun
That is a VERY good question - ex cops should be able
[ In Reply To ..]to get better jobs than this, right?
Also, it seems like "law enforcement" jobs have increased tremendously, where our pathetic little jobs have been cut, both personnel and pay-wise.
Not that I have a real problem with superbad MTs being able to protect themselves and their fellow citizens in a shooting incident, but still, you do have to wonder.
...unless they've been injured in the line of duty and - had to seek other work.
[ In Reply To ..]Ass-u-me much?
LOL - I've known so many MTs who were - cop wannabes. They were - msg
[ In Reply To ..]never actually cops in real life, only in their own minds.
Spooky.
How do I upload a picture? - Ill show you my credentials
[ In Reply To ..]And Ill also show you my scars from the job related injury that took me from my chosen profession and dropped me here. Where coincidentally, I made more money than I did as a police officer before they cut our salaries..
It doesn't really matter; the point is, now your'e - an ordinary citizen, and ordinary -
[ In Reply To ..]citizens have no reason or business being armed to the teeth with assault weapons. A handgun is one thing, but let's face it - people don't go deer-hunting with machine guns unless they're extremely poor shots.
Wrong I am covered and qualify under - HR-218 carry law
[ In Reply To ..]That was put in place under President Bush after 9/11..And upheld by the current president..And machine guns are fully auto, not semi-auto. However, I will say that you are right I will no longer use my weapon to protect the general public, it is to protect me and my family now...Just like it should be for any concealed weapon carrier. it is not our job to protect anyone but ourselves...
There's this John Wayne mentality at work here, - where gun-toters think theyre invincible.
[ In Reply To ..]When in actuality, they're often more vulnerable to being shot.
All too often, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."
We all made more money than cops - when this was a reputable profession
[ In Reply To ..]xx
FYI, I was injured, put on partial disability on a desk job - until budget cuts eliminated that.
[ In Reply To ..]You know what they say about what happens when you "ass-u-me" something when you don't know what you're talking about, eh?
They didnt even offer me a desk - sm
[ In Reply To ..]which I begged for to free up an uninjured officer to work. But 2 months after disk fusion they told my doc to either put me back full duty, retire, me or they were gonna fire me. Takes almost a year for the fusion to take no way he could put me back full duty. So he retired me, totally against my will.
Waaaaaa - I've got my violin out for ya
[ In Reply To ..]x
If you don't like what the experienced LEOs on this forum - have to say, make that case.
[ In Reply To ..]Ad hominem doesn't work. It just doesn't work.
Not owning a gun doesn't make me a coward. - And they arent the only thing - sm
[ In Reply To ..]one can use to protect themselves. There are lots of other things a person can use to defend themselves: A rock. A baseball bat. Mace. A slingshot. Your feet. A kitchen knife -(I know someone who took out a home-invading rapist with one). Or, your wits.
You can also defend yourself even more effectively by not being an easy target in the first place. A home and car alarm. A cell phone. A neighborhood watch program and "nosy" neighbors. A dog. Being aware of what's happening, and not constantly absorbed in texting. Not using ATM's late at night.
Someone broke into an apartment in the building I live in and also manage, and rather than a gun, the best deterrent was to buy a bunch of motion-activated floodlights. I mounted them around the entire perimeter of the building, and now no one comes or goes without being bathed in light. One tenant complained about cats making the light in the rear of the building go on outside her bedroom, and I got her a blackout curtain.
Putting things into a more realistic perspective goes a long way towards alleviating fear of the remote possibility you're going to be caught up in a mass shooting. On any given day, your chances of being killed by a drunk driver on your way to Walmart are far greater than your chances of being shot while inside of Walmart.
Do you know the response time for alarm calls - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Unless you answer the phone when the alarm company calls you back and verify someone is breaking in (right there is a 2-5 minute delay before the police are even called) it is a low priority call. I have had alarm calls hold for hours, literally, because no one was available to take them and 99% are false, which my city charges you for BTW. But even if you verify someone breaking in, by the time you get your alarm company call back, verification, and then they call the police your talking 5-10 minute response unless the zone unit happens to be right there. Sure you can do lots of preventative things, that do help, and I have done as many of them as I can think of, a gun is a LAST resort backup if all else fails. I carry everywhere, I pray I never ever have to use it, but I will not hesitate if I have to..I also have 2 German Shepherds, they are my alarm system and believe it or not, I can tell by their bark when they mean business and when they are being idiots. I can also tell by their bark when it is my son walking in from college, of course, both my kids one of which is a police officer now, know to text me first before they come in at night. and they would never just come in in the middle of the night anyway. By all means take every preventative measure you can think of, but I refuse to be that person that is hiding in a closet with dispatch on the phone waiting for the cops to get there. Used to be a show called emergency 911, I think, I havent looked for it in a while, if it is on I suggest you watch it. Its a real eye opener. Ive been on the responding end of a call for help and not made it in time to do anything, one rape and one murder. Caught them both actually, but that didnt help the victims one little bit..
I think landlords should be able to evict any - tenant who owns a gun.
[ In Reply To ..]They'd save themselves and their tenants a lot of trouble. If my landlord ever announced a no-guns policy, I'd be all for it.
I'll be glad to have a list of such landlords if you have one.. - Signed - The Masked Rapist.
[ In Reply To ..]...and thank you very much. By the way, when are you home alone? I might drop by.
"Home alone".... oooo, how scary. I've always - lived alone; never felt I needed a gun.
[ In Reply To ..]
You support anyone that takes away a - sm
[ In Reply To ..]RIGHT under the constitution of the United States of America...Because YOU are afraid...wow...
I support not having to live below a clinically - depressed woman with a Glock, yes.
[ In Reply To ..]
We are learning so much from these ex-cop - MTs
[ In Reply To ..]xx
at the rate these shootings are occurring - I'm surprised some of you
[ In Reply To ..]"fighters" haven't come forward to save the day!!
Most happen in gun free zones. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]they know no one will defend themselves there. Ill stay in the south where gun owners are all over. I LOVE to target shoot, its a hobby for me and my sons..I grew up in NY, when I moved down here, it was a culture shock to live in a gun culture. But now that I have lived in it over half my life it is great, would never go back to the liberal north..
To each his/her own, I guess. I myself would - never want to live in the South
[ In Reply To ..]or the Midwest. I just couldn't live with the 24/7 paranoia.
Give me the easy, breezy California coast, ANY day.
Its not paranoia you look at it wrong - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I thoroughly enjoy target shooting, its fun and after sitting at this desk listening to all this garbage all day, its a great stress relief. I will not and could not shoot an animal unless I had no choice, I dont hunt, I like to put holes in paper. And I like going through combat courses, its fun..But your right to each his own, my gun is for my and my family's protection nothing more nothing less. carried one forever and have never put a hole in anything other than a target and I am very thankful for that.
And then there's the "toy" factor. Come on, - sm
[ In Reply To ..]admit it. You spend all that money on a quality firearm, and then more money and (hopefully) a LOT of time learning how to use it, and practicing on a firing range. Now admit it - isn't some part of you just dying to use it? At least once? Be honest, now....
I carry pepper spray instead of a gun. Just as - effective, plus no jail time for me.
[ In Reply To ..]"Protecting" myself doesn't mean I have to make a lethal choice in order to do so.
I walk to my car in a large city several times a week past midnight, by myself. I stay aware of my surroundings, have my pepper spray in hand, and don't do dumb things like carry my cellphone or a wallet in plain sight, don't fiddle with my keys, purse, phone, or anything else while getting in the car, and once in the car, don't sit there for any longer than it takes to start the engine and drive away.
You can cause far more problems by pulling a gun. If the person you pulled the gun on is attempting to rob you, chances are he's just gonna grab your gun, as well. He might even use it on you. Or, he probably already has one of his own.
Look at the tragedies that happen when people shoot what they think is an intruder in their home, only to find it was a loved one. It almost happened at my house one night. My dad had a gun, and one night about a week after our house had been burglarized (gun was of no help there, either...), he heard a noise. Before he was even fully awake, he was running down the hallway in the dark, carrying his loaded gun, to the bathroom. There, my sister who had been out on a date past her curfew, was sneaking in through the bathroom window, only to find Dad standing there pointing the gun at her.
It's just not worth it.
No pepper spray is not just as effective - sm
[ In Reply To ..]but wasp spray will blind someone. And if you use either improperly you will be charged with assault and if it blinds someone, you will be charged with felony assault..
Didn't say I was using wasp spray. - (Plus the can is too big, anyway)
[ In Reply To ..]Also, instead of having to use any means of physical protection at all, it's far more effective to simply not put myself into sketchy situations in the first place. If I considered a movie theater or a football game to be dangerous enough that I felt I needed to pack a weapon in order to attend, I just wouldn't go.
Uhm pepper spray has killed more than one - person..just saying
[ In Reply To ..]Read the stories. Bottom line, better be protecting yourself and be able to prove it or you will be charged. and then there are people that pepper spray has no effect on..And yes I have been sprayed and I have been tazed in the past also..part of training.
Possibly. The difference is pepper spray isn't - lethal by design. A gun is.
[ In Reply To ..]
Glad that you carry pepper spray. It's better than - nothing.
[ In Reply To ..]You don't seem like the sort of person who should be entrusted with a firearm, but you're taking what steps you can to protect yourself.
And, of course, you're right about the best defense of all, which is to avoid situations and locations where problems are more likely to arise. This point is made very well in the book "The Gift of Fear".
What about preferring pepper spray makes them - "not to be entrusted with a firearm"?
[ In Reply To ..]After all, such a person would be far less likely to be itching to use it.
"...itching to use it"?? Where in the world does this - nonsense come from?
[ In Reply To ..]It's more likely that a person carrying a nonlethal weapon would be much less inhibited and therefore much MORE inclined to use it.
Think about it.
Ever hear of a play on words? - Apparently not.
[ In Reply To ..]nmsg
Using a play on words didn't negate the point you were making. - It just threw a humorous twist on it.
[ In Reply To ..]Ever hear of dissembling when cornered? Apparently not. The use of a "play on words" is irrelevant.
*Sigh* .... - GOP: the Party of Negativity.
[ In Reply To ..]
Comfort yourself with this: When seconds count - the police are just minutes away.
[ In Reply To ..]And since I'm a former cop myself, I can absolutely attest to the truth of how often we arrive after things have already gone down. Response time involves (a) someone calling in, (b) dispatch assigning the call, (c) officer getting to the scene and sometimes needing to (d) assess the situation before rushing in.
In some counties, there might be one or two deputies patrolling hundreds of square miles, especially at night. Even in an emergency situation, it could take upwards of 20 to 30 minutes before they get there.
Sit stock still for just 3 minutes by the clock and imagine in your mind how much can go down in just those few minutes. It's time enough to kill a half-dozen people and escape before the police even have any idea that anything is going on.
One mark of maturity is the ability to look reality in the eye and deal with it as it is, not as you would like it to be.
see my post above, we cross posted - x-cop also
[ In Reply To ..]But no one will listen to those of us who know the real deal...
If you are ever involved in a shoot-out or hostage situation, - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and I hope you are not, you may be wishing and praying that someone among you has a gun to take out the perp. If someone had had a firearm in any of the recent terror attacks, there would have been less casualties. Wake up!
If you look at the chaos that ensues when - situations like that are happening,
[ In Reply To ..]the chances that an armed "hero" is going to get much of a chance to shoot an attacker. Even if that chance arises, the likelihood is that the citizen gun owner doesn't have the training necessary to drop the perp in one shot. And one shot is likely the very most they're gonna get, if they're lucky.
Say you're in an office setting, such as the one in San Bernardino, and you happen to have a Lady Smith & Wesson in the purse in your lap. Two crazies armed with assault weapons burst in and start shooting everyone. If you point a gun at them, you MIGHT hit one of them. If you're lucky. But it's almost a given that you're going to give your life in exchange for that opportunity.
Your chances of survival in such a scenario are far greater if you run and hide, than if you stand and fight.
I'll stand and fight fist-to-fist with an attacker, but if they're pointing a gun at me, my best chance of survival isn't a gunfight, it's ESCAPE.
Don't you mean "so many thieves" ??? - USA USA
[ In Reply To ..]There is a war going on which no one is talking about. It is the Currency War on the US dollar. The banks are printing money out of thin air to pay the US debt to function, and the saturation of US dollars is diminishing its purchasing power.
Check Amazon for prices. Check for leather and cotton goods. They are not even sold in USA.
15 years ago, on trip to Canada, I was made aware that USA gets bottom shelf merchandise, designed to break, at top shelf prices. Not so in Canada. Top shelf produce is going to China.
Remember when Peso was pegged to US dollar 30 years ago? Well, the US dollar is being pegged against the Yuan, China's currency, and the world is behind this move as Americans create animosity overseas (stealing resources and overthrowing govt disguised as fighting terrorism).
When the day comes the US dollar is worth less than the paper it is printed on, the welfare recipients in major cities are going to be left without enough to eat. When that happens, the next step is theft. Women living alone and senior citizens will be the victims.
You need to take off your rose colored glasses.
This is not a mistake, this is a business plan to eliminate the middle class, steal their wealth, inject it into developing nations and literally sell USA off via regions. Impossible, you say? Not so. See: Greece. Vulture capitalists await in the wings.
The retirement/pension, food stamps, subsidies for housing and medical care will be a bouncing check. And this is all by design.
America was won by a war and the war never ended. Soldiers in business suits have been assassinated and ruining politicians who stand in their way, no different than Moamar Khaffi or Saddam Hussein. And the money trail is easy to see. The international central banks are your enemy, not Muslims, Arabs, people who live alone and keep to themselves.
If you have children, you owe it to them to investigate this. Margin call is on its way. 20 trillion dollars will be repaid and your children are HUMAN RESOURCES. China needs slaves and China will get what China wants. China owns American. Donald Trump may be the only hope you have, and that says very little. Good luck Americans
Amen you are 100% on point - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
I am also trained and practicing CCW holder - however
[ In Reply To ..]I will not carry in a purse because it can be snatched. I carry a UKoala leg holster/purse..straps around your waist and thigh and has a holster in it. Not ideal because the holster pouch is zippered and doesnt allow a quick draw. There are a lot of options for concealed carry for women that is not a purse, please check them out..Ukola bags has options, well armed woman has a lot as well. I will not be a victim, guarantee that. During the winter, I appendix carry in my belt becasue a sweater conceals nicely. Summers are hard but can be done.
Ditto. There are many options depending on weather - and what you're wearing.
[ In Reply To ..]It's also important at the range to practice by starting with the weapon in the carry position, then draw and fire. I see a lot of people just walk up to the firing line holding the weapon in their hand. Well, you're not going to walk around with your gun in your hand, and you need to practice accessing the weapon just as much as shooting it.
Also, - sm
[ In Reply To ..]run through scenerios of how you could be grabbed or held up and ways to draw your weapon...Of course, this has to be done with an unloaded weapon at home..
I just can't imaging going thru life so frightened - that I felt I had to always carry -
[ In Reply To ..]a gun everywhere I went.
Weddings. The supermarket. A city park. Seeing 'Star Wars' in the theater. Driving my car. A neighborhood barbecue.
I'd rather enjoy the places I go in life, rather than worry every second that somebody might come by and start shooting. Those things happen, by my carrying a gun would, under most circumstances, not change the outcome.
We could get hit by a meteor tomorrow, too. Or a nuclear warhead. But my owning a gun isn't going to change that, either.
I'll take my chances, and enjoy life.
They think they are big and brave trying to hide - the fear they will not confront
[ In Reply To ..]Guns are just an emotional crutch for inadequacy.
On-point about the emotional crutch. Maybe it's - why guns & religion seem to go together.
[ In Reply To ..]x
I see no problem with it. We have a right to (sm) - Olga
[ In Reply To ..]defend ourselves, and obviously this administration isn't going to keep the danger away.
People like you terrify me - ..
[ In Reply To ..]Are you trained in the use of a pistol? yes, I will take your word for that. Are you trained to react calmly and professionally in the case of a public shooting (like the Aurora theatre or the San Bernadino shooting)? not very likely. you are far more likely to cause the loss of even more innocent lives than you are to protect anyone.
I wonder though - ?
[ In Reply To ..]What new gun control law would have prevented this shooting?
At this point in our country's history, probably - nothing. The gun laws in the -
[ In Reply To ..]US have been too lax for too long, and there are now so many weapons floating around out there, that even with the strictest laws on earth, the danger wouldn't disappear overnight. It would take years, even decades, to clean up the country.
But on the same token, suggesting that we inflame the problem by promoting more expansive use of personal guns for "protection" just makes the problem worse. The only people this benefits in the end are the gun manufacturers and the NRA, not the average American citizen.
What is the evidence for your assertion, please? - nm
[ In Reply To ..]The evidence is to the contrary.
No, I don't think so. - Better check US gun death statistics.
[ In Reply To ..]#
most of the gun violence occurs in - sm
[ In Reply To ..]in Chicago and now Baltimore, Chicago is still winning..common denominator, both have strict gun laws. So hows that working for you? My head is killing me I gotta relax for a bit, tomorrow, lets pull apart the stats more..
Their gun laws exist because shootings have - been going on there for a long, -
[ In Reply To ..]long time already. The gun laws didn't cause all those shootings, they exist BECAUSE of the shootings. Just because a law can be enacted practically overnight doesn't mean its effects will be felt immediately. Things take time.
If the NRA weren't pushing gun-ownership-for-all in such an aggressive, pimplike manner, we could have had far fewer guns on our streets today.
The NRA and Big Tobacco: such "fine, upstanding" organizations.
What cracks me up about people who go all gidgey over - guns is that...
[ In Reply To ..]...whenever they're out in public, they're very likely in the presence of law-abiding armed citizens much more often than they have any idea...precisely because that's how law-abiding citizens comport themselves.
I worry about "law-abiding" armed citizens - shooting me than I fear terrorism.
[ In Reply To ..]I prefer being around people who live their lives in peace, and protect themselves using their brains, rather than an itchy trigger finger.
I dont fear terrorists or anyone - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and I dont have an itchy trigger finger, I have a gun..A gun I have carried in some capacity for over 30 years..it has never gone rogue and shot someone and neither have I.
Count your blessings then, because it can - all go terribly wrong in an instant.
[ In Reply To ..]The problem with using a gun is that it's not something you can take back.
I train, I am trained and I am responsible - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and I am licensed to carry. I don't count my blessings, I could on my training.
Good luck with that...... - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
This isn't an argument against guns. It's an argument - for enhanced training.
[ In Reply To ..]Sorry, but your argument is an air ball.
Exactamundo. These people are far more of - a risk than mass shooters are.
[ In Reply To ..]When you look at the statistics of how many people in the US were killed in mass shootings, bombings, and other acts of terrorism compared to everyday occurrences such as drive-bys, domestic violence involving guns, and accidental shootings, there's no question that we're all more likely to get killed by the average person's personal gun than we are by a terrorist situation.
Unfortunately, just look at the rightward-slanted news, and they're perpetuating and exacerbating all this "I've gotta protect myself!" hysteria. Promoting mass hysteria should be a crime - punishable by shutting down these media fear-factories.
Ok so here is the solution - sm
[ In Reply To ..]For you non 2nd ammendment people, frequent places that don't allow firearms in them..they are clearly marked on the entrance ways. Me personally, will not go in one, not because I am afraid, but because I choose not to give my money to someone who doesn't support the constitution of this great country. Gun free zones are criminal targets..look at the stats
Taking fear or distaste for guns completely out - of the picture, I still would prefer -
[ In Reply To ..]not to frequent places that encourage open or concealed carry simply because I don't like being around that sort of mentality.
The gun-toters are always the ones who say "It's the PEOPLE, not the guns", and in that respect I agree with them, because I prefer not to associate with that kind of people.
and that is your right because I guarantee you - we
[ In Reply To ..]prefer not to associate with you also.. there is a painfully obvious love hate relationship on this board. I guarantee you, if you met me anywhere, I dont drink, but even if you met me in a bar, you would never know I am carrying..and would think I was nothing more than an ordinary person, albiet with highly conservative political leanings.
All I see in these Yay-guns! posts is the naive - belief that they somehow solve everything.
[ In Reply To ..]It's a dangerous tenet.
I haven't seen ANY of that at all. Please cite the post. - But one thing's for sure...
[ In Reply To ..]Being prepared doesn't solve everything, but being UNprepared solves NOTHING.
Just because I don't pack a gun doesn't make - me "unprepared", just un-ARMED.
[ In Reply To ..]Pretty big difference.
Wow, great discussion - thanks!
[ In Reply To ..]xxoo
Out of curiosity all of you arguning this gun - carry
[ In Reply To ..]have ever shot a gun or even touched one?
Why? Does touching or shooting a gun cause - one to have some kind of "revelation"?
[ In Reply To ..]Is it some sort of spiritual thang?
This whole gun thing is so out-of-control, the NRA - is now encouraging pastors to be armed.
[ In Reply To ..]Anyone else see a huge potential problem here?
This country is freakin' NUTS.
HUM gun violence down - sm
[ In Reply To ..]what the liberal media won't tell you.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/?utm_expid=53098246-2.Lly4CFSVQG2lphsg-KopIg.0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2F
concealed carrier stops mass shooting in Chicago - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Believe what your are told or do research.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/20/concealed-permit-holder-stops-attempted-mass-shooting-in-chicago/
Yeah, let's arm everybody: Priests, teachers, - school bus drivers, dog-walkers,
[ In Reply To ..]street-sweeper drivers, Rabbis, garbage men, doctors, grocery store baggers, crossing guards, waitresses, stockbrokers, mailmen, meter readers, service writers at car dealerships, Jehovah's witnesses, valets, nannies, hairdressers, receptionists, Starbucks baristas, and of course - medical transcriptionists.
Its their right if they want to be armed. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]under the constitution.
The 2nd amendment never intended that every - yahoo in the US should carry a firearm.
[ In Reply To ..]X
...
Guns - RT
[ In Reply To ..]I would not have it any other way, than to have a gun or two or three. I would much rather be armed just in case a situation arises where I can protect myself or my family, than sit there wishing I had a gun. With that said, I hate when I read about a child who gets a gun from some irresponsible low-life, who doesn't have the brains to put it up, and shoots themselves or others. Browning now has a shotgun that has a sensor on the bottom of the stock that can be programmed to only be fired if the owner's fingerprint has been programmed into it. It will not fire otherwise. They have put this gun through many, many years and many, many tests to come up with all types of scenarios, but so far it is fool-proof. Now, why didn't someone think of this way before now, and why is this not mandatory on all guns, big and small? It would save a lot of heartache in the future. Browning is going to make a huge fortune on this gun, wise up manufacturers, this is the future. Just my 2 cents.
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