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Horrible
Posted: Nov 25, 2012
Our border agents opened fire and killed a teenager throwing rocks, through a fence, who was on Mexican soil. Why are we using live ammunition on people throwing rocks?
;
16 years old. It's very sad. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
I guess the dislikes are from those who think killing the kid was okay? - wow
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Expect so. Some support whatever lawmen do because - they are extensions of authority. nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
but it is okay then for the other side of the border - anon
[ In Reply To ..]to attack the officers on border patrol and injure or kill them, I suppose.
..."rocks have caused hundreds of injuries to agents in just the last year. The agency is on the record saying it considers rock-throwing to be deadly force, which sometimes demands the same in response."
One would think your loyalties would lie within the US and our borders. Just because the "victim" was 16 does not mean he was not out to do harm. The border patrol has no idea who they are dealing with...it could have been part of a drug cartel or smuggling group, or terrorist attack. Our own has a right to protect themselves, as well!
No, of course not. But each of us is responsible for - our own actions. Your choice of
[ In Reply To ..]your attitudes, for instance, would not excuse my adopting them.
You're amazing. - RC
[ In Reply To ..]It's a kid throwing rocks.
I've heard they're slightly easier to doge than bullets.
You could be a normal human and say "that's really sad and messed up," or you could just talk about loyalties.
I'm not the type to ever use the phrase "our own." Sorry.
okay....let's put it this way then... - anon
[ In Reply To ..]I suppose you would also argue that George Zimmerman had the right to protect himself because he hunted down a 17 year old boy with skittles and ice tea for a weapon, but eliminate the fact that the 17 year old boy was black, and feel more for the perpetrator than the victim.
It has been my experience that just because a person is under the age of 21 does not make him less of a criminal. He should be responsible for his own actions, as well. He was in the wrong and suffered the consequences for his actions. The border patrol were within their rights to protect our borders and themselves against attack, be it rocks or bullets.
too bad you do not have as much "empathy" for some of the people on this board, when attacking the victim!
I am sorry the boy was only 16, but he took it upon himself to do wrong. I am also sorry he thought that it was in his best interests to attack our borders! His motives were not necessarily good intentions either. You do not have to accept my reasoning, but nor do I have to accept yours, just because, once again, you think you are right. sorry.
Throwing rocks does NOT = death. - RC
[ In Reply To ..]Ever.
what???!!!! - anon
[ In Reply To ..]throwing rocks has been and is still used in some countries as a "means of death!" Ever heard of stoning???? EVER???
I think we both know - RC
[ In Reply To ..]There's a difference between a stoning and one person throwing rocks.
how do you know it was only one person.... - anon
[ In Reply To ..]were you there?? The article itself states that this has happened repeatedly over the years and that many people were involved. I am sure he was not the only person standing there "innocently" throwing rocks at cars for fun! He had intention of doing harm. He should not have been broaching our borders in the first place.
You're right. - RC
[ In Reply To ..]There was a group of people throwing rocks.
Through this fence:
it's fascinating that you know what the boy's intention was - waloc
[ In Reply To ..]do you ever listen to yourself?
Giving murderers a free pass if they wear a badge - is characteristic of strong authoritarian follower
[ In Reply To ..]
The last string of studies I want to lay before you regarding authoritarian
submission concerns authoritarians’ willingness to hold officials accountable for their
misdeeds. Or rather, their lack of willingness--which catches your eye because high
RWAs generally favor punishing the bejabbers out of misdoers. But they proved less
likely than most people to punish a police officer who beat up a handcuffed
demonstrator, or a chief of detectives who assaulted an accused child molester being
held in jail, or--paralleling the trial of U.S. Army Lt. William Calley--an Air Force
officer convicted of murder after leading unauthorized raids on Vietnamese villages.
This is a quote from Robert Altmeyer's The Authoritarians.
"The last string of studies I want to lay before you regarding authoritarian submission concerns authoritarians’ willingness to hold officials accountable for theirmisdeeds. Or rather, their lack of willingness--which catches your eye because high RWAs [right-wing authoritarians] generally favor punishing the bejabbers out of misdoers. But they proved less likely than most people to punish a police officer who beat up a handcuffed demonstrator."
This quote actually grossly understates this characteristic. As can be seen on this thread, some people will support murder when it is committed by an authority figure. Note the "punish the bejabbers out of misdoers." In this case the 14- or 16-year-old boy was the misdoer and HIS punishment not considered too harsh or inappropriate. There is no compassion for his lost life because he deserved what happened to him and because the Border Patrol agent's action must be condoned.
Now, mercifully, not all authoritarian followers are "high RWAs," and many more moderate RWAs would also be appalled at this boy's death and less inclined to make excuses for the Border Patrol agent. As we can see, though, what Dr. Altmeyer calls "high RWAs," are far from unusual. They are always among us.
ANON!! - sm
[ In Reply To ..]sorry for shouting, but I really wanted to get your attention. There are all kinds of ways to apprehend people other than shooting them dead. You need to understand the premise of deadly force: it is quite different than just feeling like it's your right to shoot somebody.
Would you rather? - RC
[ In Reply To ..] or
There's just no comparison.
let's see YOU get hit by one of those boulders - anon
[ In Reply To ..]and see how you like it! If it was you being attacked, you would use any means possible to protect yourself, including shooting somebody.
There was a freaking fence! - RC
[ In Reply To ..]The kid was behind the border fence. You're telling me this guy couldn't dodge rocks thrown from the other side of the fence? It was easier to kill the kid?
Shame on you for condoning killing this boy, who may have been 14. - It was NOT self defense. Mexican Federal police
[ In Reply To ..]drew their guns on the border agents when they started wading through mud to get to the Mexico side of the border. The Mexican officers believed the Border Patrol agents were crossing over to steal evidence from the killing scene.
Regardless of your inexcusable attitude, and regardless of theirs, the Border Patrol agents knew they were in trouble. We don't get to shoot people just because we're angry or frustrated, or who would be safe?
now it's a boulder! for crying out loud... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Do you not realize that by continually exaggerating your claims you cause your already dwindling credibility to diminish even further?
that is what you call ugly - tsk
[ In Reply To ..]One should resist the temptation to create negative and harmful images in one's pointy little head.
(totally baffled by your first paragraph) - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
agree - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
should - anonymous 3
[ In Reply To ..]kick all of you anti-americans out and back over the border where you belong, instead of leaving you here to throw rocks at our government officials. next it will be grenades, rifles, and bombs, but that will be okay 'cause they are just kids, I guess. makes no sense to me at all. just cause he is 16 does not make him any less of a criminal.
jingoistic nonsense - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
collective narcissism - nome
[ In Reply To ..]nm
how so? - ...
[ In Reply To ..]Honestly. Tell us what you mean by collective narcissism with respect to your post.
"just because he is 16 does not make him any less - of a criminal." The issue is his EXECUTION. n
[ In Reply To ..]x
no....the issue is what led up to his being shot. - noexecution
[ In Reply To ..]nm
fail - sm
[ In Reply To ..]The original post referenced a story that detailed the Department of Homeland Security's OWN REVIEW of their parameters surrounding the use of lethal force.
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