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Repeating the same lie over and over will not succeed
Posted: Mar 3, 2011
in transforming it into truth. Conversely, ignoring important issues and pretending they do not exist will not make them disappear. All this booha and disdain directed toward the protesters amounts to nothing more than an open admission that Walkers actions are indefensible.
He is in defiance of a court order. He has balanced budget on his desk he is refusing to sign and is casually threatening lay offs in an effort to ramrod his reviled collective baraining proposals through. Moreover, republicans are defecting. These are the issues not being talked about. No matter how this turns out in the end, it is clear what public opinion is both inside and outside Wisconsin regarding his tactics. That is the part of the battle you will never win no matter how hard you try to attack the protesters and ignore the facts.
;
Well, the Dems are being arrested if they dont come - back from running away. !! lol.
[ In Reply To ..]What a bunch of pathetic babies.
Really? You expecting Illinois to extradite them? - WI Troopers going to storm IL?
[ In Reply To ..]They are already facing a heroes welcome when they do return by those 2:1 supporters. What do you suppose arresting them will do? Turn them into criminals and reverse public opinion? As if. Have you stopped to consider that arresting them could backfire in Walkers face, just like everything else he has tried? After all, he is batting zero so far. If it makes you feel better, go ahead and toot that horn. Just dont be too disappointed when it does not happen.
PS: There is nothing in the WI Constitution that allows them to issue the warrants, since the dems have not committed a felony, treason or breach of peace. Just another ineffective illegal red herring Walker is throwing out there to flex that mighty muscle. What a joke.
2:1 supporters... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Where did you get that from? Walker has garnered tremendous public support and respect for trying to actually balance a budget rather than continue spending like a Democrat would and these renegades are not being smiled upon. they are viewed as having abandoned their jobs. A large majority of the public in Wisconsin is anti-union (having suffered greatly at the hands of the unions during the loss of manufacturing in our state) and definitely not supportive of the protesters. I believe you are only listening to the side of the story that most fits your own opinion rather than the whole picture.
Can you cite a source on this other than - wishful thinking?
[ In Reply To ..]Got numbers?
not 2:1 at all - WI MT
[ In Reply To ..]Once you step away from the liberal place called Madison you have many small business owners, farmers, self-employed who are behind Walker who are actually working and did not abandon their jobs. Just because the unions are loud does not mean they are the majority.
If this ever did come to a vote in the state of Wisconsin (abolish collective bargaining or not) I think everyone would be surprised at how badly the unions would lose. The unions may be able to garner support by bringing in bus loads of people from other states, but they can't force people in the state to vote for them. In fact, part of me kind of hopes this goes to a vote so we can end this once and for all. Go Ohio!
Ummm, a bit too unscientific to be convincing. - Cite a source please.
[ In Reply To ..]Preferably something with numbers.
here you go New York Times - WI MI
[ In Reply To ..]http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/wisconsin
This shows how the election in 2010 broke down across the state of Wisconsin. Remember that the Democrats won this state by a huge margin in 2008, but by 2010 the Republicans scored some major victories. The article even states that the state is pretty much purple, meaning not leaning one way, red or blue. My point is this: Wisconsin is not 2/1 democrats (typically union supporters), but more like 1/1 (at least of those people who voted in 2010) and would this collective bargaining go to a public vote it would not be a 2/1 victory for the union supporters but would be more close to a 50/50 split.
I do know that in my town referendum which was to pay the teachers more money demanded by the union, it got voted down handily 2/1 (not even close to 1/1), all the democrats who were for the referendum talked loud but didn't show up at the polls. All the republicans showed up and voted against caving to the union demands. I would like to optimistic that in a statewide election the same would hold true.
WI unions - mememt
[ In Reply To ..]The leftist want you to believe that everyone supports the unions and Walker didn't actually win the election. If they can put a few thousand people at the capital to protest, they want to think it represents the entire voting public, which it doesn't. The vast majority of us aren't protesters. We are working moms and dads who have lives to lead and don't have time to sit in the capital building for 2 weeks and play the bongos. We do, however, pay attention to the issues and we voted the leftists out of office and they just don't know what to do with themselves now. They made themselves look ridiculous. No one is getting rid of the union. The unions will always exist and have a place. They should not, however, tell our politicians how to run our state; that's our job. Don't believe the garbage being spewed from the leftists. This was NEVER about the kids or the middle class. That's a blatant lie. It's about power. Democrat power = union power.
Apples and oranges. The data provided talks - specifically about this issue
[ In Reply To ..]of stripping collective bargaining rights and support vs nonsupport of Walker. Two months into his office, teh governor is show to be on the losing end of a recall vote. It is not in just one or two polls.
Sorry not playing - WI MT
[ In Reply To ..]Walker cannot be recalled, he just got into office, he has to be in office at least a year, just like the senators. Trust me I have looked into getting our AWOL senator recalled, but he just got elected. I don't believe your polls because anyone can skew the questions and answers to fit a certain agenda, plus I don't even know if they polled people in Wisconsin or not, hard to tell with all the people bussed in from out of state.
I know the democrats don't like anyone who actually sticks to their word and doesn't waiver and will do everything possible to vilify and demonize him. You know that only makes his supporters that much stronger don't you? It frustrates the Democrats that he will not compromise on the collective bargaining. I am mighty proud that he is sticking to his word and not backing down. In fact, if he backed down now I would be very disappointed. The votes are there and the budget will be passed. Honestly, I don't understand why you would be against employees having a say in whether they wanted to be in a union or not and why you think Walker is so evil for limiting wage increases to the CPI unless the taxpayers approve it.
I am trying to understand why you vilify Walker but yet you haven't demonized Ohio governor for eliminating collective bargaining? Or gone after Florida governor for proposing the same thing? Or Indiana governor? Or Christie in NJ? Or any of the other 47 states that are broke? Apples and oranges or do you just have a personal vendetta against Walker?
Yep, and they will be counting the seconds until day 366. - Multiple polls.
[ In Reply To ..]Guess you think that if you believe HARD enough, you can change fiction into reality and reality into fiction.
Here are a couple of places this came from. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]WSJ, not exactly a liberal stronghold.
Eliminating collective bargaining rights for public-sector workers over health care, pensions or other benefits would be either "mostly unacceptable" or "totally unacceptable," 62% of those surveyed said. Only 33% support such limits. Similarly, 77% of the 1,000 adults interviewed for the poll think unionized state and municipal employees should have the same rights as those union members who work for private companies.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/03/02/wsjnbc-poll-strong-support-for-bargaining-rights/
Other results from recent polls from a Madison WI source
Posted: Tuesday, March 1, 2011 6:35 pm
A New York Times/CBS News poll released Tuesday found 60 percent of national respondents oppose curtailing the bargaining rights of public workers. Thirty-three percent favor curtaining those powers.
In a USA TODAY/Gallup poll last week, 61 percent of national respondents said they would oppose a law in their state "taking away some collective bargaining rights of most public unions, including the state teachers union." Thirty-three percent were supportive.
In a poll commissioned by the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity, 71 percent of Wisconsin residents surveyed said it is fair for Walker to ask union members "to pay 5.8 percent of their salary toward the cost of their pensions and double their contributions for health care premiums to 12.6 percent." That should make you happy, but remember, those concessions have already been made.
A Public Policy Polling survey released Tuesday found Democrat Tom Barrett, Walker's 2010 opponent, would prevail 52 percent to 47 percent if a rematch were held today. In other wors, he would lose in a recall election.
http://host.madison.com/html_6f94efc6-4465-11e0-b212-001cc4c03286.html
Thought this article might be of interest...
Fox & Friends Flips Poll Numbers Around, But Quickly Issues Correction
Feb 23 2011
At around 8:17 AM on �Fox & Friends� this morning, the hosts showed a graphic with the results from a Gallup poll asking whether Americans support or oppose laws stripping public employee unions of their right to engage in collective bargaining. There was just one problem, the numbers were flipped.
The graphic said that 61% of Americans favor the laws, and 33% oppose them, in reality, the poll showed the opposite, with 61% opposing the laws and 33% favoring them.
To his credit, F&F's Brian Kilmeade issued a correction about 40 minutes later, after they had realized their mistake: "I want to correct a poll we did about 22 minutes ago from Gallup," he said. "61% oppose taking collective bargaining away from those people in Wisconsin. 33% in favor. I had it reversed. I apologize."
Along with the correction, the network aired another graphic, with the correct numbers.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/fox-friends-flips-poll-numbers-around-but-quickly-issues-correction_b54294
I will buy this when they publish who the sampling - was and if each person
[ In Reply To ..]polled was asked if they or any family member was a union member and those figures were published along with this.
Until then...don't buy it.
It is published for those interested in - following the links provided
[ In Reply To ..]Fox's open admission of botching up the report outta tell ya something.
it's called leadership/nice to see for a change/nm - independentMT
[ In Reply To ..]nm/
I guess to some, red herrings, bully tactics, threats, ignoring - state constitution and
[ In Reply To ..]the will of the people is leadership. An example of this would be die-hard Ghadafi supporters, but stateside, we dont operate that way.
If Wisconsin has a state law about recalling - senators I would be looking
[ In Reply To ..]into that and if they represented my district I would be looking to recall (fire) them.
Tea party already on that - WI MT
[ In Reply To ..]According to WI law can only recall senators who have been in office longer than a year. They need a certain percentage of signatures along with addresses to verify the people signing live within the district "represented" by the AWOL senator. Then they need a candidate to run against the one being recalled.
On the flip side, the Democrats are also trying to recall enough Republicans to swing the majority- I believe they need 8. Things have only started getting nasty in this state. The unions are definitely not going down without a fight.
As are the dems. - Cuts both ways, dear.
[ In Reply To ..]Heck, while they are at it, may as well recall the entire assemby and Senate. Just more ugly fallout behind Walkers runaway fiasco.
What a dumb idea. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]If they stay put, they stay out of jail. If they return, they get shackled in handcuffs and hauled off to jail on trumped up charges that will not stick. That is counterproductive, not to mention totally illogical.
Fine. Then they should kick them out of the - senate and replace them.
[ In Reply To ..]someone going to hold YOUR job for YOU if you go to the next state to protest something....? I am thinking...NO.
They need to be at their jobs, doing their jobs, instead of acting like children and holding an entire state hostage. They should be thrown out of the senate if and when they return. Not jail, just OUT of the senate.
So much for noble public service. They should be ashamed.
One can only hope the bedbugs BITE. lol.
Watch them try to charge their expenses to the STATE. lol.
Dean and Schumer and dems sending money - WI MT
[ In Reply To ..]That is the lastest I heard, that Howard Dean and Chuck Schumer were trying to raise money for hotels and expenses. HMMMM.
Not surprising. I guess they really think that the - people of Wisconsin
[ In Reply To ..]are just stupid and won't notice how the left has sold them up the river in support of the unions.
I hope you folks in Wisconsin remember this come 2012 and help us vote the leftists out of Washington en masse. Now THAT is CHANGE I can BELIEVE IN!!!
I think it's a bad idea to attack the protesters, - Zville MT
[ In Reply To ..]although quite a few are behaving badly. The discussion that needs to be had is why some states force members of certain professions to join unions when really the only people that benefit from unions are the union bosses - I know this, I used to be a teacher. Every union meeting I ever attended was never about what could be done to make things better for us in the classroom, it was about how much more money they could try to go after for pay raises or bigger benefit packages. The school district I worked for was broke, three years worth of levys had failed, bussing had stopped for the high school, all activities were pay to play, and our union boss advised us to go on strike to get our 2% raise in salary.
People in unions are made to believe that being in a union is the only way they will ever get fair wages, benefits, and working conditions. This just simply isn't true anymore. I totally sympathize with the protesters in WI and in OH and everywhere else and if they want to be in a union, that's great, but it shouldn't be a forced issue because the unions have become just as corrupt as the government - in some places, it's hard to tell the difference between the two.
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