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Darn It
Posted: Nov 22, 2014
I hadn't had a religious solicitor at my door in almost a year, and it's starting up again. If you are one of those, PLEASE don't show up unannounced. If you must, call me on the phone and I will politely tell you not to come over. I'm sorry, but it's rude. My husband and I were attempting to have a lazy morning for ourselves, and there goes the doorbell. A couple of times in the past, I was just getting out of the shower. I know it's someone trying to sell something when it rings, because my friends don't show up unannounced. Oh, and then there's working from home. I desperately try to explain to the person that I'm working and have deadlines, but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying to "sell" me their religion. Thanks!;
Post a No Soliciting sign. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]It's unbecoming, but it works for me.
I Did That - And...
[ In Reply To ..]I actually did that a couple of years ago, and they still rang my bell. I politely pointed out the sign, and for some reason, they thought that didn't include them. I think they thought it meant no door-to-door salesman selling encyclopedias or something.
Rude, rude, rude. Maybe I'm too nice to them. I smile and say "no thanks." Maybe I should frown and say "get out of here and don't come back."
I have absolutely - no use for those people
[ In Reply To ..]When they show up at the door I tell them I'm not interested and shut the door in their face. They've never come back after that.
From OP - see msg
[ In Reply To ..]Well, I don't think slamming the door in their face is the right thing to do. MOST of them go away when I say "no thank you." I did have one woman come by 3 times, and she started stepping into my house with her proselytizing (or however you spell that)and I put my hand out to stop her. Then she offered me some material to read, and I said "no thank you." She then said to me "what, you don't read?" I said I do read, okay, I'll take the booklet. And that was that. I haven't seen her since.
I should not have been intimidated by her remark, but I was.
Today's incident was that 2 people came and hubby answered the door. They wanted to show him a video, and he said "no thanks." They did leave straight away, but I still don't want them coming to my door.
First of all, it scares me when someone rings my bell and I'm here all by myself. Don't they get that?
I don't open the door - Me
[ In Reply To ..]At my place, they usually come in 2s and 3s with their folders. They all come from the same church, different people, but handing out the same fliers, week after week. I just don't answer the door anymore when I see them coming.
I bought this... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]..exact sign from Etsy (link below) about a year ago, and they haven't knocked on my door since. I stopped getting bothered by the nuisances from ADT, Comcast, and the like as well. I actually have my sign up every day though... even if I'm not working, lol. I highly recommend it. :)
Cute! - nm
[ In Reply To ..]xxx
I might make one with a variation... - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Working Girl
Please Do Not Disturb
That will give them something to pray about.
P.S. I'm a Christian, but I still have a sense of humor for those about to flame me.
I Know What I Will Do - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]I'll put a red light in my vestibule--that way, they'll know I'm busy. LOL.
Door to door - JW
[ In Reply To ..]FYI (for you and others who responded to your post), JW go door to door and are NOT selling anything. The "no soliciting" signs don't apply to us because we're not selling stuff. We're looking for people who want a Bible study. If you truly don't want us to visit you, ask the next one to put you on the list to not be visited anymore & make it clear (but polite please). The person will make a note of your name & address & will forward it to the people who maintain the service files. For at least 2 years, you shouldn't get any of us at your door. There will be occasional visits spread very far apart simply because people move or change their minds, but it would be a very brief visit to confirm whether you still want to be on that list. Because we're human also, you might still get another visit sooner than that. I met one person who told me she had made this request at least 2 other times. I was the third. I told her I would immediately forward this to the right person & made a phone call before I left her yard to make sure this was done. I don't shove religion down anyone's throat. We try to pick times that are more likely to find people at home without being too early or too late in the day. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience.
From the OP - see msg
[ In Reply To ..]I purposely put "sell" in quotes so that you understood that I understand there is no exchange of money.
Solicit doesn't necessarily mean sell something. One can solicit views from someone, one can solicit inputs or opinions, etc. Okay, so maybe solicit doesn't mean proselytize. I'll change my wording. Proselytize. Try to convert. Threaten with damnation. Take your pick.
Got it - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Again, sorry you had a bad experience. Got your message. You might try a "No trespassing" sign. We don't cross those. Calling the local Kingdom Hall with your "do not call" request would mean you don't need a sign at all. However, the trespass sign would work for anyone else who goes door to door for any other reason.
Thank You! - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]I do so appreciate that!
If I'm wanting to have private time with my husband during a [gasp] daytime moment, take a shower, take a nap, work or whatever else, I have that right. How about you figuring out a way to not intrude.
I think your heart is sort of in the right place in your mind in terms of your needing to preach or whatever, but you're not considering other's feelings. Is that a way to gain members for your cause? Perhaps for some very lost souls, but the general public doesn't want you intruding.
Thank you.
Understood - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I definitely understand the concept of wanting time without having to be "ready" to answer the door at any time of day. Phones ringing at all hours are similar. The only way to avoid those are to turn them off. (In my case, that's likely to result in somebody at my door wondering if everything is ok since I didn't answer the phone!) We really do consider the needs of others. We don't go out at horrible times of day. When I see a sign on a door "day sleeper", I don't knock. When we see that somebody is clearly busy (kids, pets, yard work, etc), we make it short & move on. We have found people who really are interested in what we're doing & we set up future visits when discussions can take longer (and are expected to be longer). Not to beat a dead horse, but unless there is something outside to tell us that the visit won't be welcome, we have no way of knowing if the person inside is going to be interested or not. It takes less than 30 seconds to figure it out, but we knock just in case there would be interest in the information. We're trying to get word out on our website...another way that would avoid intrusive door visits. People could look at the info when it's completely convenient to them... or not look if they don't want to. It's always the choice of the people. I've had people knock on my door...sales, Mormons, other JW who didn't realize it was my house, etc. You could always simply not answer. We respect that too. If I know someone is home & choosing to not answer, I don't knock a second time. The intent is clear. I'd prefer that to a door slam any day. Anyway, I hope this chat has helped you. It has helped me see that maybe another way to approach a house is needed. When cars are in the driveway, it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone really wants a visitor. I'll think about this some more, maybe look at the places more to see if there are signs of "do not disturb" that are subtle. I have to tell you...there are some doors I've knocked at just to make sure that someone inside is actually ok, to disrupt an argument or something that can be heard from outside. Before you tell me that's risky for both me & whoever is getting yelled at, I do realize that, but was brought up in a house of fighting. Somebody coming to the door occasionally would be enough for someone to take a breather. I have no problem with that particular risk. I keep food and a medical box in my car, never know what might be needed.
Okay - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think a lot of us need you to see our point of view.
I still see it as intrusive. I realize you want to "get the word out," but most of us know how to reach out to a church of our choice if we want to explore it.
If I want to have private time with my husband in the morning or afternoon, that's my business, and the last thing we want is a doorbell ringing. If I'm in the shower, just jumped out of the shower, or whatever, I don't want anyone at my door. Maybe I have an Alzheimer's mother who jumps out of her skin and gets agitated when the bell rings or there's a knock on the door. Maybe there's a disabled person who has trouble answering the door. I had someone ring the bell when hospice was here while we had a dying family member in our living room.
Nobody should have to put a sign up of any sort on their own property. It IS trespassing whether there's a sign or not. And maybe the local Kingdom Halls should take note of an address someone has already visited, and check them off the list for good. I know people move, new people move in, etc., but so be it. I'm sure they'll find you if they want you.
I know I'm not the only neighbor who feels this way. Some of them are impolite and slam the door. I think that's not nice at all, and I don't do that and will never do that.
If I want to explore religions, I know where my Kingdom Hall is, I know where the Catholic church is, the Baptist church, the Seventh Day Adventist, the Episcopalian....etc.
I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be cruel and I do believe you are wanting to do what you think is "right" by your religion. But if you have a religion where you think it's "wrong" to not go knocking on doors, that is a problem and I can't tell you to go against your religion. I personally would re-think a religion that made it such that I would have to intrude on others' lives.
Perhaps mailing out flyers is a better plan.
Your point of view has been seen. JW said she understood. tell next one SM - usedtobeJW
[ In Reply To ..]you don't want them to visit and tell them that you want this permanently. As stated, your address will be noted and they will make every effort humanly possible to see that no one else will come. My congregation did this years ago for people who requested it or where there were bad dogs or no soliciting/trespassing signs, and definitely a few people who were abusive in their dislike of JWs and threatened bodily harm. BTW, they do mail out flyers, lot of elderly or disabled people do this as a way of participating in their ministry. This also works for the Mormons.
Well - OP
[ In Reply To ..]I don't think she saw my point of view, because she still plans on going door to door. Looking for "clues" as to whether it's okay to knock or not doesn't give me a sense that she understood anything. Nobody should have to leave a clue or a sign or anything.
Most people go through their mail, so I'm sure they saw the flyers and how to reach out if they want to. There are also TV ads for certain religions. Neither of those is intrusive to me, it's just life and I can choose to respond or not.
Just so maybe I feel a little better, I do hope if a teenager or other minor answers the door, that you ask to speak to an adult, and not try to have any religious conversation with the child.
I am not singling out JW, by the way. I have had non-JW come to my door as well.
ok, your point is that JWs shouldn't go door to door at all SM - I get it now
[ In Reply To ..]And indeed, if a teenager or minor answers the door, the JWs are instructed to ask to speak to an adult. I hope you feel better. Sounds like the no trespassing may be the best way to go for you so that no one comes to your door, religious or not.
Correct - OP
[ In Reply To ..]...that is correct, they shouldn't go door to door, period. I think I am going to call our local church who I think is doing this, and I will tell them to stop coming by. I'll also tell them they need to re-think this door to door thing.
doors - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I do understand your need to be left alone & respect that. Not everyone feels the way you do. Many times, we're welcomed. If you don't want ANYBODY at your door, you should put out a sign. How else will people know to leave you alone? It's your house, your life, your rights to privacy. You feel you shouldn't have to mark your place with any sign. I DO understand that. In order to have people leave you alone, they have to know they won't be welcome. With no clues of any kind, how are they supposed to know that your house is to be avoided? Sales people & others go door to door. It's not going to stop just because you don't like it. I'm sorry for the way you feel. Jesus himself told his disciples to go in pairs to the cities & towns, to houses & businesses, go where the people were, find others who wanted the truth. We take that as something we are also supposed to do. It won't stop, but that doesn't make us rude or insensitive. We care very much for people. Calling the local Kingdom Hall to request that you not be visited is a good idea. You will have to give your address. That is so a note will be put on file for anyone else who works that area... along with any other addresses of note...do not call, violent animals or people, anything the person who goes door to door would need to know. We take our ministry seriously. This is one of many ways to reach out to people. In communities that cannot be reached by walking (or driving), we do letters and phone calls. We're trying to not leave anyone out. People are free to choose whether we return or not, no hard feelings. You might think I've turned a deaf ear to you, but quite the contrary. You've given me valuable insight into what might be going through someone's mind when they say not to come back. Some are polite, some are not, but I've never heard reasons before. You've actually "talked" to me, and that helps.
Some more reasons - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I live in a condominium that is clearly posted for no tresspassing and no solicitation, yet the JWs ignore it. Their need to proselytize trumps all, it seems. If they are chased off by the guards, they start dumping flyers in the foyer on every floor. These blow around and we have to chase down the litter. That seems socially irresponsible.
You may be polite and considerate, but others are not. When I had a house, the same ones came back over and over. It was impossible to get them to stop or to go away. When they were at the door, they were unbelievably persistent. They would shove their way right in!
For some other faiths, engaging in Jesus' ministry of helping others is preferred to proselytizing. They feel that the example of a loving ministry goes further than talk. You may actually aggravate, if not scandalize, them with the door-knocking campaign.
Other faiths may also find that the JW knowledge base is a bit lacking. The whole faith seems to be based on such an obvious misinterpretation that it is depressing to hear about it. JWs are also such rigid thinkers that is frustrating to talk to them. It gets worse when they find out what faith you are and they start telling you that YOU are in error, that YOU are brainwashed, and begin listing their absurdly erroneous beliefs about your faith. If you insist that nothing of the sort happens -- baby sacrifices, for instance -- they explain it away as mind-control.
That is why many of us don't want you knocking. We don't feel we need to be saved by you, and we would never go from the incredible beauty and joy that we have to something that seems so sad, so deprived, so uneducated and limiting, so totally alien to our idea of a loving God, so intolerant of other beliefs, and that seems like mind-control to us. When you all leave, we thank God that we were not born into that faith and we feel just terrible for you.
We don't think that anything we could do would be enough to change your thinking, but we also think that God is all-powerful, all-merciful, and is the definition of love itself, and that it will all work out somehow.
The reason that many of us loathe visits from JWs is that it is torture to keep from saying that to your faces.
Msg - JW
[ In Reply To ..]We do have some who are more persistent than I am. If we see interest, we go back to foster that interest. If you weren't wanting more visits, did you tell them straight out that you didn't want them to return? I've literally asked that of people when the interest was waning. I'd much prefer honesty to somebody suffering in silence. Not answering the door when I know someone is home tells me the same thing. I've stopped going to certain places because of it. No hard feelings. If someone doesn't want what we offer, shoving it down their throats isn't useful in any way, doesn't show kindness, etc. Each person comes to their faith their own way, some born & raised in a faith, some church-hop (like I did) in search of something & stop when that "something" is found, others have no faith in religion at all, and a variety of other options. In this area at least, we don't go into gated communities simply due to lack of access. If there is a community building outside the gate, we'll leave brochures or magazines, but I've never seen them left out where the wind will catch them. You're right about the frustration of having to pick up things blown around the neighborhood. I pick up things that blow into my yard & wonder why someone didn't contain their trash better. :) I've gone to apartment complexes but never leave things laying around. If I've been talking with someone & they aren't home, I may fold a tract small & stick it in the door to let them know I had come by, but not sticking out far enough to flag a stranger that nobody's home. If the doorway is too tight, then I don't leave it. I will pass along the insights I've learned here to the groups I go out with. I appreciate the honesty from you and OP and others who have posted here. I've come to know God as being very loving and concerned for our future. Jesus was the same way. I try to live by the example they set. Far from perfect, but all we can do is try. If we ever meet in person, I'd much prefer to be told honestly and politely that further visits would not be welcome. Something that simple would be effective with me (and most JW that I know).
My take on this... - Mary
[ In Reply To ..]My husband and I are very private people. We live out in the country, where houses are more secluded from each other than in more suburban areas.
We also live in a community that from time to time suffers from break-ins and even home invasions while the owners are home, even in broad daylight. Some of the criminals, when caught, have admitted to targeting homes where no one answers the doorbell. Unless my husband is home, I do not answer the door unless I know the person.
Over the past three decades, there have been a total of five unsolved murders in our community that occurred during home breakins.
In addition, I am a comfy dresser, and I like to dress in a less-than-presentable manner when I am home alone. I should not have to rush to get dressed to answer the door just to avoid having my home broken into, nor should I have to answer the door to someone who was not invited or did not call ahead of time to see if they would be welcome.
In the area where I live, we have very aggressive, pushy JWs visit our neighborhoods every single week. They do not respond well to being asked not to return.
Anyway, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Private property is just that, private property. We do not want to be bothered.
Mary - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Thanks for sharing your story. I respect your situation. My best, kindest advice is to contact the local Kingdom Hall and ask to talk to an elder or ministerial servant (use those words), the one who takes care of service territory, & tell that person you want to be on the list to not be visited. That person is responsible for making sure you will be put on the card for the territory you are located in as a "do not visit" or whatever words they put on there to make sure your address is left alone. There isn't always somebody at the KH to take calls, so timing will be important. Just about every day, people meet at certain times to gather for going out in the ministry or in the evenings for meetings and on weekends. There are meetings for elders and ministerial servants, but that's determined locally for day/time. If you call shortly before 9 am, you might get somebody. After 9, folks will be there, but not likely anyone will answer the phone (volume off), so a little before 9 should be ok. Could try evening after 6:30 pm.... no clue which evening, but you could try Tues, Wed, or Thurs. I don't know who gets any voicemails, so for your sake, I suggest talking to a person being a better option than leaving a message. What we do is peaceful and not intended to offend anybody. Unfortunately, we live in a society where bad things happen which affect many beyond the literal victim, sort of making secondary victims. I'm protective of where I live also, like most people. Things have happened that were terrible, things that left lasting scars, so I sympathize with your feelings. I hear on the news all the time about home invasions & can imagine the fear those people felt. My apt many years ago was invaded, robbed, and then burned up. Fortunately, we were out of town at the time, but it was shocking to come back to a torched shell of a place & nowhere to live. I'll never forget the smell of the place as we tried to salvage any of our things. Time has passed & I've relaxed the guard a bit, but fire is one of those things that make me edgy. I can understand you feeling protective in your home with home invasions in your area. I'd be guarded against strangers also. I wish you peace. :)
Seems to me that the JWs would be aware of this - and have already stopped
[ In Reply To ..]JW, this thread is showing you that people do not want those visits and also that your Kingdom Hall offices don't stop when asked. While you might be polite, you still intend to keep doing it because your church demands it and you, yourself, have to comply.
Knowing that most people have this concern, it would seem that the JWs, as a national group, would have stopped the practice. Unfortunately, it is such a main activity of the group that they can't stop. They have nothing else to replace it. It is like chanting at airports was for the Hare Krishnas.
There was a study a while back that found that most JWs become JWs and stay JWs for two reasons. One, they like thinking that they are a part of something that holds non-mainstream beliefs which upset conventional believers (i.e., Jesus is not divine and he was not crucified, but hung from a stake) and that performs activities that upset conventional believers (i.e., going door to door to share the upsetting beliefs, littering reams of 1920's style pamphlets everywhere they go, not stopping when asked). Two, converts to it usually show the same mindset as members of other cults like the HKs and Children of God. They join because they are searching primarily for social support, not God, and they stay because they like being seen as "different" and they either prefer letting others make decisions for them or they cannot stop the others from controlling them.
Think about what will happen if you show up next week announcing that you can no longer go door to door because you now know that it frightens the wits out of people and you don't think that is a good reflection on a loving God.
What are those elders going to say? You will most likely buckle under to stay in the church and keep your friends there.
I don't think anything I say will affect you now, but I want you to see it anyway, because some day it might be what you need.
Thoughts - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I hear what you're saying. A lot of people agree with you. Some do appreciate our visits. There are notes made on territories where people have asked to not get visits. I've turned in requests from those who tell me themselves they want no further visits. I've seen notes from others. You cannot say it isn't being done, that people's requests to be left alone aren't respected. There are many who do want our visits. We are world-wide, not just national. No one I've ever heard of became a JW just because it upset others. Each of us comes to our own personal decision after a lot of thought, study, prayer. Jesus went out to find people and teach them. Some liked it, some did not. How are we any different? Jesus is the son of God. We don't pretend to be anything other than normal human beings. Jesus taught his disciples to reach out to people, every person they could find. They were normal human beings. We are trying to live by the example set by Jesus and his disciples. The Bible is our source for all we teach. All of our magazines, books, etc that we leave with people reference the Bible. Look at some of these papers, confirm it for yourself. There are stories of issues we have in modern times, and help is offered to those who are having problems in those areas. Some folks ask for the help, some don't. Many times we come to people who need help but haven't found it elsewhere in their lives. Sometimes, another perspective is what's needed. A lot of the help is practical, not just religious. Some of the people who get the information become JW later, some don't. Sometimes, we come across people who are angry & need to be heard. Some people have heard things about us that aren't true. We do have the right to set that record straight.
To JW/All - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]I started this as a reply to original post, because we were going off the screen with replies to replies.
I just wanted to ask JW--I am always very polite when I turn religious door-to-door people away. I'm beginning to think that since I don't slam the door in their face, or that I'm not otherwise rude, that it's a sign that I'm interested. Is that possible that you're seeing someone who listens to you for a bit as interested?
I still maintain that someone shouldn't have to leave clues. It is trespassing when you come to my door.
And I think I mentioned this somewhere else---a lot of people get the wits scared out of them when they're home alone and someone comes knocking on their door. It's really not a safe practice for you, but I know you're not worried about that. There are some states where if someone feels threatened on their own property, they can shoot to kill and suffer no consequences. I like to think most people wouldn't do that until they knew for sure, but that could be too late.
I think perhaps the nicest thing you could do is send out a survey (through mail) to get the mindset of the community before you show up unannounced. You could get a majority rule, or customize it per address. "Can a church member visit your house unannounced? If the answer is 'yes' please call the following phone number." I suspect if you put "If the answer is no, please call," you'll be flooded.
Hi - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Yep, the replies to replies was moving dangerously close to being off the page completely! lol ... I'm glad you're polite to people at the door. It is appreciated. If someone listens to me (or not) and tells me they aren't interested, I tell them thanks for their time & then leave. I don't return. If it's someone I've been talking to (when they have asked questions, etc) and then they decide they don't want visits anymore, I make a note of it & don't return. I have no interest in choking somebody with the information. It's possible that you've come in contact with JW folks who are more pushy than I am. I know some who are quiet & shy, others who are "normal" chatters, others who are pushy. We come in all shapes, sizes, personalities. There are always safety concerns. That's one reason we don't go out alone. Most of us have cell phones on us. There are people who like to scare others & some have dogs that are quite nasty. When we get threats, we quietly and immediately leave. In neighborhoods that are "bad" by reputation, we have brothers with us & stick closer together. I will defend myself if necessary and if a peaceful exit isn't possible. If the threat is from dogs, some will let us leave quietly while others need a different "exit" procedure. One sister had to throw her books at a dog that had attacked her partner. The dog stopped & they were able to get away. Some are afraid of animals because of this. In areas known to have dogs, I'll go out because I'm more comfortable around animals & they won't sense fear from me. The ones who are afraid would be at greater risk simply because the animals would sense the fear & they'd become upset also, so those JW will often go to another part of our territory. If we come to a property and have any real sense of implied threat, we don't go to that door. There aren't too many places like that in this area, but there have been a few houses I've opted to skip and not visit simply because the "aura" around the place felt creepy. In my life before being JW, I was introduced to many situations where I was in trouble and learned to survive. There are some things I'm just not as afraid of now because that bridge was crossed long ago. I know what I can handle. For those who were raised as JW, there's a different tolerance. I've seen worse things than a lot of them have. Flip side of that coin, some JW have been tormented for their beliefs & have seen some problems that most of us don't. As for a survey of an area before we visit, I'm not sure that would actually get done. I can see the value in it, and I can ask if that's something we'd be willing or able to do. We don't have any new territory, so I really don't know what they may do when a new area is started. That's something I can ask about too, the process of starting new territory.
Well... - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]I see that you are going to continue to go door to door, so I am ending this thread. I was trying to help you see that it really is hard on people whose doorbells ring with this sort of thing.
But, you're not seeing that. I hope that you are not intimidated by anyone in your church, or think you will burn in the afterlife if you don't knock on doors. That would be very sad, because you seem like a nice person.
OP - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I enjoy going out in service. I don't do it because of force from anybody. Let me turn this around just briefly. If there was something peaceful you did that you really enjoyed, would you stop doing it because it ticked off somebody? I'm not talking about a really offensive hobby or going door to door, just anything that happened to be seen by the general public.... if someone insisted you stop doing it because they hated your hobby (but didn't hate you), would you seriously stop? I was hoping we could come to an understanding of some kind. I mean you no harm and I know you don't mean harm to me.
I Would Stop If... - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]If I truly believe in something, and it ticked somebody off, no, I would not stop as long as it wasn't something illegal, evil, etc., which I know is not your case.
However, I'm not talking about a knee-jerk ticked off-ness. I'm talking about people feeling intruded upon. And when people feel intruded upon, they get ticked off. So, it's not a knee-jerk reaction with me. I feel intruded upon.
If you feel you are going to damnation if you don't knock on doors, then I feel bad for you. That is actually a form of intimidation, even if nobody at your church is physically threatening you.
I feel strongly that people who are lost can get themselves into religious situations that may not be healthy for them. I do hope you have your OWN mind, and that your religion is an adjunct to an otherwise healthy, normal life--and not a controller of your life.
I wish you very well.
OP - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I didn't mean to imply that your anger was just a knee-jerk reaction. After all our chat, I know that's not the case. What we do isn't mind control, isn't evil. I do have my own mind. My dad's been saying that all my life. I've always gone my own way. It took me many years to finally join... and not at the pressure of anyone on earth. It took me that long to do my own research, my own soul-searching, my own prayers, etc. I don't feel any damnation going on at all with what I do or don't do. My health physically is on shaky enough ground, but that's due to age & just plain wearing out. My mental health is spot-on. Like I said elsewhere, my stress level is greatly reduced. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Okay - From OP
[ In Reply To ..]You'll do your knocking on doors for whatever reason is going on that you feel the need. I wish you well.
And to the people who don't like people coming over unannounced, I tried to reason.
I'm often concerned about JWs and door-to-door ministry sm - just me
[ In Reply To ..]and I have no problem being courteous and letting them know I am an active member of my own church, but these days there are so many nuts around--what if you were invited in to share your information and things went bad (even if you have a companion or two with you, as do the people who come to my neighborhood). It worries me sometimes.
safety - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Thanks...I appreciate your concern. There have been times when we were invited in and we declined. Sisters don't go into a man's house if there's no woman evidently living there/present. Brothers don't go into a woman's house if there isn't a man living there/present. There was an instance of a brother going into an elderly woman's house after she said she had been on a step-stool trying to change a light bulb. He did it for her. She told her son about it after he got home & he went to the local Hall to say thanks for helping his mother. We're happy to share information with people, but we generally do not go into houses unless/until we've gotten to know the people. If there is any doubt about our safety for any reason, we stay outside. Houses with signs "no trespassing" we don't go to at all. Houses with several growling dogs tend to be passed by also. If we get threatened, we make note of the address & pass that along to the Hall for anyone who works that street later on. In rougher neighborhoods, we try to have a larger group... 2 at a time per door, but more pairs on the street. I've only been threatened once. He had at least 5 dogs, Dobermans maybe, and quite likely a gun on him, but he didn't actually aim it at us. His attitude was extreme. We had gotten maybe 5 or 6 feet into his driveway, so never made it to the door. We made a respectful withdrawal. He yelled at the JW going to his neighbor's house also. He had no cause to do that, but those JW also quietly pulled back. Our ministry is peaceful, so we would rather not set folks off, but if somebody made a physical attack on me, I would defend myself. When we back off, that calms these people. All they want is for us to leave, so we do. They can achieve the same result without so much stress. We keep pretty alert wherever we go. Very rarely do I get assigned an area that's truly unsafe. I've been in some very poor areas, but that doesn't mean it's not a safe place. Some folks are more afraid of those neighborhoods than I am. I've been homeless twice & have known other homeless. That by itself doesn't make an area "bad". Some of the kindest, most gentle people I've ever known had essentially nothing, but they'll offer what they have to somebody who has less. I've been in wealthy neighborhoods also. There are generous people there as well. I'm willing to go anywhere & meet people who might be interested in a Bible study. I won't avoid a certain neighborhood just because of what it looks like. That's hardly fair. If someone isn't interested, just say so. It's that simple. If someone is interested, then we can have a great conversation. Perhaps, they don't want to leave their church but have a question or 2. Once that's handled, maybe they say it's time to stop. No hard feelings. Some JW are more "hard core" (for lack of a better term) than I am. I wasn't raised JW, so there aren't decades of experience here. There's this one sister I really enjoy serving with. She's kind, was raised JW but has seen her share of troubles, and knows more about the Bible than anybody I know. She has no fear, will talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime, but if they tell her to back off, she does. I don't know any JW who would disrespect anyone who says "don't come back". Sorry this ended up so long. I really want people to understand... we're not the enemy, not evil, not a cult. We're just people with the same problems as anybody else we come in contact with. We have a hope in the future that a lot of others don't have. That's what we want to share... hope.
I am one of those... - sm
[ In Reply To ..].. people who get the wits scared out of them when someone knocks on my door, lol. I hate it, and I wish I didn't react that way, but I do. I am a very introverted person too, so that may have a lot to do with it. Everyone who knows me knows I *really* need them to call and make arrangements to come by.. even if it's just to drop off something they borrowed or whatever. I don't react well to unexpected visitors. I get all nervous and tongue-tied. I'm very socially awkward, lol. When someone knocks on my door, I know it's most likely a stranger, and my heart practically jumps out of my chest. It pretty much sucks.
I'm actually the poster who posted the Etsy link to the sign I bought. One of the main reasons I actually bought the sign is because I became convinced that "the list" was imaginary. The whole first year I lived in this house I asked 4 separate times in that 1-year period to be put on the list and was told I would be. On the 5th visit (2 women), the woman who did the talking was so pushy. She literally wouldn't take no for an answer. I kept telling her that I was supposed to be on their do not disturb list and that I wasn't interested. I told her I worked from home, and these are my working hours, and I'm very busy. She actually said she would come back on the weekend when I'm not so busy to talk to me to see if I might have a change of heart. o__O The younger woman that was with her looked a little mortified and as uncomfortable as I felt, but she didn't say a peep the whole time. I just said, "please do not come back" and slowly shut the door. I ordered the sign the next day and haven't been bothered since. :)
I will say that I've never had that experience before. The other people that came and said they would make sure I was put on the list totally respected what I said when I told them I wasn't interested. They didn't push the issue like the last lady. It was a really bizarre experience to have someone at my home, and I'm asking them politely to leave me alone, and they are just persistently standing there being so pushy. Oh working do not disturb sign... how I love thee!
sm - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Years ago, I was terrified pretty easily by just about everything and there was plenty of reason for it. I had no doubt at all that I'd live life alone as far away from people as I could get or die young. I did almost die a few times, but here I am. A lot has changed. When I'm at home (working or otherwise), I'm almost always startled by the doorbell or knocking. It's rarely expected. It's not just you. Even though I ring bells & knock on other doors, I'm another "jumper" at my own house. It's weird. I don't know how to ease your stress about it when I feel a similar way myself. ("physician heal thyself" comes to mind.) I do respect signs in people's yards & often question whether it's wise to go to a door marked "do not..." whatever. If I'm with someone else who has doubts, we tend to skip the place. Even though we aren't selling anything, I do realize that most of the signs are referring to any stranger at the door. Since becoming JW, the stress in my life has been greatly reduced. I can't wait for better things!
hi JW, sent you an email, hope you receive it. sm - usedtobeJW
[ In Reply To ..]interesting discussion.
Hi - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Just checked email, it didn't arrive. Not sure if there's a delay or not.
sent it again, maybe the reply by email isn't working. SM - ued to be JW
[ In Reply To ..]unless it goes to spam email. Weird.
hmmm - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Not sure what's going on. The first email still hasn't come & did check spam box. Assuming you just sent the other a few minutes ago, but nothing so far. :)
Maybe you could - Try to e-mail her/him.
[ In Reply To ..]Since you guys may be having a private e-mail exchange and you both don't mind if each has the other's e-mail address, you could e-mail her or him and see if it works.
Note that an e-mail sent from here will not show the sender's e-mail address, but once you reply to the sender's e-mail, they will have yours--then if you go back and forth, you will both have each other's e-mail address.
Could just be ... - ??
[ In Reply To ..]Could just be that JW got the email from ex-JW, but prefers not to admit it.
Typical of high-control or cult religions, JWs are discouraged from associating with former, i.e., disfellowshipped, members except to lure them back, and are discouraged from associating with nonbelievers except to lure them in.
JW may therefore fear, justifiably, that it may be another JW who is emailing her in an attempt to find out who she is for disciplinary reasons. The views she has expressed here are a lot more tolerant than those of most JWs and since her participation here has not been to evangelize, it can be seen as socialization with the offering of excuses for what most JWs see as appropriate and necessary behavior.
ok - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I sent her an email, not sure if she got it. I am not sure about her status, if she quit, got disfellowshipped, or is simply inactive. She has not said. I am not at any risk of being disciplined. I didn't preach in these notes because that would certainly have inflamed the conversation further. I did my first reply simply to explain about door to door. I wanted to calm things down, maybe reduce the anger or distrust or whatever motivates strong feelings that OP clearly has. Was hoping to make peace. I have no idea what ex-JW wants to say in email that isn't going to be said here. Since "ex" wants a private conversation, I won't share it here if I ever find out the details. We're held to a certain standard of behavior (which is not in the least a burden). Nothing I have said is a conflict with it. We talk to people all the time who aren't JW. There's a lot of wrong information out there about JW. The truth is a lot kinder, peaceable, etc.
I suspect the reply email system here isn't working SM - usedtobeJW
[ In Reply To ..]I have had it work before with no problem. Actually, I just wanted to say hello and that the discussion and her replies had brought back memories for me, some pleasant and some that I don't want to go into detail about in a public forum. I quit as a young adult and my status is the same as someone who is not a JW.
former JW - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Their email reply system isn't something I have much experience with and no success. I doubt I'll try it again since it isn't working. We have a new website that you might find genuinely interesting, but I don't know enough about the rules of this board to know if I can post it, so will read whatever I can on that. If not, then maybe you can google it or something. Things have changed since your time with us. I've known JW for many years but only relatively recently became a member. I'm glad you have some pleasant memories. Thanks for your help here. :)
Yes, familiar with new website, have watched the videos too. SM - formerJW
[ In Reply To ..]have some former in-house workmates who are JW and some relatives who are JW. They call me JW on hiatus. Thanks for your replies. :) Perhaps one day the email relay will work.
Good - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Glad you're keeping in touch even while on hiatus. :)
I Am OP Who Started This - see msg
[ In Reply To ..]I am the OP who started this thread, then backed away from it because JW and her sisters and brothers aren't going to stop. I thought I would try to enlighten them that we shouldn't have to put a no trespassing sign in our yard. The law states if you are on my property, you are trespassing--no sign is needed.
I think you are a kind person, but I think you are swayed by your religion that you MUST go out and do this, or else--what?
You have your own mind and are entitled to use your own mind. I think drifting with a group because you "needed" something is not healthy psychologically.
I still wish you the best, and to others who are going to post, note that JW is going to do what she is going to do, and we can't change her mind regardless of what we say.
Hello - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Wondered if you'd return. You seem to think I'm weak-minded or a puppet with strings pulled by other people. You're walking the wrong path on that one. I've had weeks where I couldn't go out at all. Nobody threatened me or made any nasty comments about it. I don't go out because my life is missing something & this fills some kind of void. You should consider a no trespassing sign. Regardless of your opinion that you shouldn't have to get one, it IS the only way to stop this traffic. It's your house, your property, but unless there is something that tells people that no stranger of any kind is welcome, you'll continue to get occasional knocks on your door from somebody... sales people, JW, kids selling candy or some other fundraising items. If you don't want to be bothered, then do something to stop people from coming to your door. Obviously, there isn't anything about the outside of your place to tell people to just keep moving down the road. I try to be kind to people & be understanding of their various situations. You're not making this easy on yourself. Even if JW stopped coming to your house (which they will if you let it be known you want to be avoided), without something marking the outside of your property, SOMEBODY will eventually knock on your door without warning. For your own peace of mind, please put up a sign to let folks know that your house is to be left alone. I do wish you peace. I have no desire to pester you or offend you. I just think if you truly don't want anybody showing up unannounced, you need to mark your house to be left alone. It doesn't matter that YOU don't think you should have to...you will have to do something or this will continue. Not by me, perhaps, but I have no idea where you live. I cannot call the appropriate Kingdom Hall for you. I don't know if we'll ever meet... if we do and I get told to go and never return, I'll be happy to note your address & send a note to the person who takes care of the territory. I move often, have been in multiple states, so if you believe in "karma", we might very well meet someday. I kinda hope we do meet... our particular issue would get resolved. I'd be nice, you'd be nice, life would go on. :)
I Did Not Come Back - Because...
[ In Reply To ..]I did not come back because there was nothing left to say. You are going to do what you are going to do.
I am not the mystical type, so karma isn't in my vocabulary.
Sounds like you don't want ANYONE to come to your door, JW, AVON or ? SM - no trespassing sign
[ In Reply To ..]seems to be the way to go.
very well said. The Fuller Brush sales, Avon & Mormons can't read your mind either. NM - some indicator needed
[ In Reply To ..]xxxxx
Well - OP
[ In Reply To ..]I never used the term JW. I just said "certain churches." I actually don't necessarily know if they're JW, Mormons, or other, because I politely send them away. I may have used JW in other notes, because that's what the thread evolved to when JW came on.
I have never had an Avon person come to my door, nor have I had Fuller Brush. Once in a blue moon (if I have my garage door open or if I'm outside),someone trimming trees in the neighborhood might approach and ask if we want a trimming.
Other neighbors have tried no trespassing signs, and it doesn't seem to do any good, so I'm not going to litter my lawn with a sign.
And let's not leave out the Girl Scouts cookie sales, though they are online now. NM - anon
[ In Reply To ..]NM
Hmmmm - sm
[ In Reply To ..]..."Even if JW stopped coming to your house (which they will if you let it be known you want to be avoided),..."
Nope.. SOOOOO not true. I have asked to be put on the "do not disturb list" every... single.. time one of them have come to my home over the years. This has happened at every home I have ever lived. I have had 8 visits in the 2-1/2 years I have lived in this home I'm in now. They really like this neighborhood for some reason. I have even called the closest Kingdom Halls and requested I get no more visitors. They just keep coming!!! This isn't particular to just me. This happens to many, many people. It is a well-known phenomenon and a bit of a joke among non-Jehovah's Witnesses. How do we stop them from coming??!!
I do not understand how people of this faith haven't realized what the going door-to-door thing has done to your religion. You have more or less made yourselves into a joke. There are so many jokes out there about Jehovah's Witnesses coming to people's doors and how much that it is literally hated by so many. I even saw a picture once with a huge alligator at someone's front door and the picture said something like.."well at least it's not a Jehovah's Witness." Jeez. Enough already. Take a hint.
I don't mind the Girl Scouts, magazine sellers, etc., who come here... I like cookies and magazines. I have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER to talk about my beliefs with a total stranger who believes something ENTIRELY different than I do. I am not Christian, and I have no interest in talking about the Christian religion. This does not stop them from coming. It also doesn't stop them from asking me how familiar I am with the word of Jesus Christ AFTER I tell them I am not even Christian. Umm... are you trying to convert me or just insult me?
I feel I shouldn't have to put up a sign, especially since I don't mind other types of solicitation. If I tell you not to come back, you shouldn't come back. It's really simple.
Hi - JW
[ In Reply To ..]Sorry you've had such a hard time. I suppose another option is to put something like "No JW" sign, but that just makes the whole thing stranger. One of these days, you'll talk to the right person & this will be resolved... I hope.
Karma - sm
[ In Reply To ..]You used "karma" incorrectly in your post above. Karma is not meeting someone eventually.
In your case, karma would be finding yourself paralyzed in a hospital, fully conscious yet unable to communicate, unable to rest because your roommate bangs on your bedrails and won't shut up.
Karma is, roughly speaking, payback for the misery we inflict upon others.
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