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thoughtful editorial

Posted: Nov 24, 2009

Thomas Friedman. stated we should not punish politicians for making hard choices. He said the real answer was we need better citizens who will convey we are ready to sacrifice - even pay higher taxes. Otherwise a great power that can only produce suboptimal responses to big challenges will fade. I think that sums it up perfectly.

;

abe lincoln said... - dnh

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a government of the people, by the people and for the people. I think THAT sums it up perfectly.

The people do not want this reform in its present form. That is why support is falling and is only in the 30% range. The govt should be doing what the people want, not want they want. We are NOT ready to pay higher taxes; we cannot afford higher taxes. If you are ready, then fine.... I will send you my tax bill and you can have at it. This administration needs to put the brakes on the spending or we will no longer survive as a nation.

2010 is coming, not soon enough, but it is coming. Vote them out.

The people - bicky

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The PEOPLE overwhelming voted for Obama because he promised CHANGE. Our country is in dire need of major changes to return to prosperity. One of Obama's main platforms was health care. He is trying to do what he promised so he can move on to other issues such as corporate interference with democracy. The corporations are pushing back to stop reform (and decrease their hold on the nation) by funding the misinformation being fed to the fearful. Times are hard. We have survived other hard times but it takes ACTION, not digging in your heels to make things better.

that was then, this is now... - dnh

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That vote took place a year ago. And overwhelming?? check the numbers. He won, but not so overwhelming as you would like to think. Furthermore, might now his popularity isn't what it was then, and support for this reform is not high. Current approval index is -15%, negative 15%. Yup, times are hard. This time, this administration, is truly a hard time, and if he continues barreling full steam ahead without regard to the desires of the people and the future consequences of his current actions and spending, we may not survive this hard time. And about that change.....not happening! He is not transparent, he is not for the people, and he is as corrupt, if not more so, than those who went before him. And the changes he has made and the ones he is pushing through are not the changes the American public bargained for.

"that vote" - bicky

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was for a 4-year period. Sorry. You don't get to change your mind every 12 months because you don't like the remedy to our problems. The president's job is to lead and make decisions for the betterment of the country, not respond to the whims of some overhyped group of malcontents that are in actuality is quite small.

that vote - dnh

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I am hesitant to respond to this because I think you are someone who would be best avoided and maybe then you will go away but....I suspect you are only here to stir the pot. However. I do get to change my mind any time I want. And change it again and again if I want. Many who voted for Obama have done just that. It's called buyer's remorse. They bought into his promises and his charisma and now realize it was all a front. However, I didn't. I didn't vote for him. Obviously, I realize the election cycle is four years and we are stuck with this for three more, but I don't see him remedying anything or bettering our country. I see him putting us into debt from which we cannot recover. I see him weakening our country. I see him destroying the working people and strengthening the entitlement mentality. I see him building big govt with no accountability and showing no regard for anyone else. I hope at the end of the next three years that we still have a free America left to salvage. 2010 is my hope for a good start to reversing the downward spiral we are on now. This is not "the whims of an overhyped group of malcontents" but the will of the American people, and that group of people who agree with me is not all that small; that is why his approval rating is -15%. Negative - and falling further and further so I'd say the group agreeing with me is larger than the group agreeing with you. otherwise the approval numbers would be positive, not negative. So now, if you so choose, in your true form, feel free to demonstrate your forte by calling me names, insulting me and showing your true colors brilliantly. I would rather you show me some positive things that you believe has been accomplished by this administration, show me how you think we can recover from the increasing debt this administration is burdening us with, show me how you think we can possibly afford the trillions of dollars the currently proposed health care reform will add to that debt burden, show me something that would make me feel differently. Show me how I am going to pay higher and higher taxes and still be able to provide for my family. I would like to have my confidence in Washington restored. Really I would.

for some one hesitant - bickie

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to respond, certainly a long post. Obama promised health care reform. That is what he is working on. he is doing exactly what he promised. Quit making things up. I'm not one of those progressives who feels obligated to educate you on what Obama has done right or wrong. As far as your vision of ruin and higher taxes and providing for your family . . . tiny violins. We all got family, taxes, bills to pay. I am a proud American and I say to you -- if you don't love it, leave it. Let my song to you be a warning. When you are running down my country, man, you are walking on the fighting side of me. My father, a vet (cue the violin and tiny flags) used to sing along to this on the radio.

you have struck a nerve now - dnh

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I am proud to be American and do love my country. Don't ever dare to question my patriotism. Because I love my country, I fear for its future under this administration. Washington is working fast and furious to destroy much of it. I am not running down your country; the administration is doing a fine job of that. I do not need you to "educate" me. Laughable that you think you could actually. My father was a WWII vet and my husband a Vietnam vet and my "adopted" son currently serving in Afghanistan so don't try to one up me. It won't work. I am done with you now; your selfish, disrespectful and self-righteous attitude is too annoying for me.

go ahead get your back up - bickie

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Fake outrage is so played. I have no desire to engage in the game of whose family has sacrificed more. The fact is we have brillant president who deserves our support through these hard times NOT OF HIS MAKING and it is people like you rooting for him to fail that are damaging the country. Name-call, name-call, name-call. As Barbara Bush said to Al Franken --"I'm done with you"

Thank you! You said everything I feel - anon - (no message)

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x

The people....some facts for you - anon

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As dnh said, "check your numbers"...it is not as overwhelming as you claim it to be. Truth be told the PEOPLE overwhelming DID NOT even vote in the election. What does that tell you.

Yea, some voted for change, but that is a poor poor thing to bring up because as you very well know, everyone is saying this is NOT the change they voted for. What Obama promised the PEOPLE, and what he is DOING TO the people is not the "change" he spoke about. So much has "changed" since he took office, and this is not the changed he promised in his campaign.

Yes times are hard, and they are getting worse. And if you remember correctly there was a time when people took action. It was called the Civil War. If you read history you would realize that the circumstances were similar as to what led up to the civil war that is happening now in our country once again.

And I wouldn't quote Lincoln as you did in an earlier post to try to make some kind of a point (which no point was made). Lincoln was for the people. Lincoln was one of the greatest leaders in history. Nothing Obama does compares to him. If you're going to quote leaders to compare with Obama, then you need to quote Vladimir Lenin, as he and Obama are one in the same.

Civil war? You have proved my point - bicky

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If you can't have your way no way at all huh? Sound like Dubya. By the way venom-breath, I did not mention Lincoln someone else did. Read much?

You really don't get it - anon

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You're the one with the "my way or no way" attitude. All I pointed out was the last time it was like this there was a civil war. Of course that's not my choice, I would rather see congress work things out and do what the people want them to do, but if they don't, people are ready to take actions. We vote our elected officials in to work for us. If they don't work for the people they need to be removed and new officials who are willing to work for the people be elected.

Oooh, and how nasty can you be.... venom-breath. HA HA HA HA....LOL Love it. You know we all make mistakes. I could have sworn you had mentioned something about Lincoln, but reading back I was wrong. But venom-breath????? Ahaaaaaa. Love it. Brought me back to my childhood days of listening to little children call each other names. Too funny.

So, please do yourself a favor and read up on the civil war and why it was started.

yeah there was the civil war - bicky

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and there was the Oklahoma bombings, Waco, and then there were the Olympic shootings. . . I don't mean to anything about them, just wanted to mention them as an example.

WOW - you are special! Bless your heart! - nm

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:(

adds nothing what so ever to the conversation - bickie

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nothing new, same old, same old.

can't spell you own name or have you changed it? - ha ha ha ha ha

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nm

Thank you bicky/bickie/nikki, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time....... - Now I have to clean coffee off my screen..nm

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.

woo-hoooo . . . ha ha. yuckety yuck. - rollingeyes

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knee slapper.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! - OMG....nm

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..

oh stop it! whew! can't catch my breath! ha ha ha - bicky

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oh wooooo woooo woooo woooo haaaaaaaa

I cannot believe that you are trying to have a reasonable....sm - nosa

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conversation with these people. God bless you for your patience but you are wasting your breath. The perceived sins of Obama that have made their lives worse are a figment of their imagination. Anything being done for the past year except for the stimulus packages and bailouts which were started by president Bush will not take effect for many months. A little bit more "wait and see" would be a good idea here.

thanks I knew there was intelligent life - bickiebikiebicky

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on this board - few and far between, but here. Your reasoned comment is appreciated.

yeah, that war in Afganistan.. - anon

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figments of our imagination. There is no war going on.

The economy tanking...yeah figments.

Unemployment rising...figments.

Debt rising....figments.

Spending galore...figments.

The health bill...hey that is a figment too. There has been no talk of a health bill....all figments of our imaginations.

Tarp money...what tarp money...No such thing. All that was figments of our imagination.

The Louisiana Purchase and Landriue (sp?) taking money so she will vote their way. All that was figments. Never happened. There was no million dollar bribe/pay off. Landriue never accepted money. All figments of our imagination.

Sheesh....we are the ones wasting our breath here. But I'm done with it. A little more opening your eyes to the current events going on would be a good idea here.

At least he/she has a moniker which is more than can be said for you. - Nikki

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nm

No...you didnt add anything to the conversation - anon

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Except sarcasm and rambling on about nothing.... Waco, Oklahoma, etc??? That's not what the topic was about. Do try to stay with us. Read up about the Civil War and what led to the civil war. You'll find the similarities between then and now pretty much the same. You question people's patriotism to the country when you are showing your socialist beliefs. You stated the obvious that a president is in for four years, but then state that people don't get to change their mind. Maybe not in Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, China, etc., but this is America. We can change our minds whenever we want. We can change them the day after the election if we want, and we can change our mind as many times as we want whenever we want.

There is also a provision in the Declaration that states "That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." I'm sure you didn't even know that, as I see you don't believe in the constitution and what our founding fathers fought for.

Yes the president's job is to make decisions for "the betterment of the country". However, this current one and his regime are NOT and have NOT been doing that. They are stepping out of line and there is such a process called impeachment. When you have a president and his regime destroying the country and trying everything to turn it into a socialist/marxist state, well I'm just waiting for the true Patriots of this country to stand up and fight for what is right. If that means they will start a civil war, so be it. Our country lived through the last one.

verbosity pomposity - bickie

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I'm sure there a few posters here who understood the Waco references. I suggest a rally be organized for people who want to firmly cling to their right to change their mind. I didnt laugh until I got to your socialist marxist impeachment comments. Since you are so thoroughly versed and gung-ho on the Civil War, perhaps you should read up on treason now. Wink. Wink

Wrong! Each president has four years to implement their campaign promises....sm - oldtimer

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So far, what Obama has done is just fine with me, deliberate, intelligent, informed, steady but sure, just what I expected when I voted for him. So, speak for yourself. You definitely don't speak for me.

you too have stated the obvious - anon

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Of course each president has four years. That is not what was in question. What I stated was every individual as a citizen of the United States has the right to change their minds whenever they so please. But when a candidate campaigns on one thing and total does the opposite once he's in that is a totally different issue and one of the reasons for the Declaration of Independence. When a person decides the change they plan to implement is turning a free country into a socialist country...well that's when I'm waiting for the loyal patriots of the country to stand up and say NO.

What Obama has done so far is not fine with me nor with the majority of Americans. Deliberate - oh yeah it was deliberate from the moment he decided to do this. Intelligent - that all depends on the intelligence of the people who back him. I wouldn't call it intelligence, more like devious. Informed - again all depends on what his handlers tell him is going on. He claims he didn't know that the majority of America attended tea parties or that even tea parties were going on in America...that my dear is not intellgent to me. Whether you agree with them or not at least you knew they were happening (oh wait, maybe that was a figment of our imaginations too). Yeah, he's doing what a lot of other people suspected he would be doing when they didn't vote for him. You definitely don't speak for me and over half the country.

WOW you are special. Bless your - sweet

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little brain. ? Awwwwww.

President Lincoln has always been my hero....sm - donkaphant

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and I think he would be proud that Barak Obama is president even in the face of vicious descent, as he was. He fought for what he thought was right regardless of the opposition he endured. Obama has been president for less than one year! Get it? He is working on the many problems our country is facing, but Rome was not built in a day. What is the purpose in opposing everything that he does? He will be the president for the next 3+ years. Do you really want our country to fail? So far, what has he done to make you so against him and why?

I think the same about Lincoln nm - bickie

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nm

Maybe in your mind - anon

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And I find that comment racist. He'd be proud of him. Because of his race? Oh how nice. But seeing as Lincoln is not here, and you did not know him or live in his time, to suggest he would be proud that Obama is president is rather "silly". It just goes to show you don't know much about Lincoln. People who proclaim delusional ideas like this are no different than the ones who claim they know what Jesus would do in certain situations.

Yeah, he has been president for less than a year. Look at what he and his handlers have done to the country so far. With no "hope" of anything getting better. Just watching as he "changes" the country into a worse place. Obama would be wise to tell his handlers to go take a hike. You know...like something Lincoln actually would have done. If Lincoln was alive he'd have quite different words and he'd be ashamed of what Obama and all the presidents before him have done to the country. Oooh, and guess what.... the country is failing. What makes me so against him. He campaigned on promise of hope and change (he made the change sound like it was for the better, not the worse). He campaigned on transparency, that he would work with people in all parties (including republicans), he campaigned that his race wouldn't play into a lot of issues. He campaigned that there would be no more lies, that the people who know what's going on and have some input and that he wanted to listen to all citizens to what they have to say. Nothing he campaigned on is he following.

It's time to follow the Constitution, Declaration, etc.

"That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Maybe before proclaiming what you think Lincoln would or would not be proud of you might want to study up on him and what Lincoln's history and believes were.

Because of his race? No, because of his ideals.....sm - donkaphant

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A government of the people, by the people, and FOR the people. You claim to know so much about president Lincoln and his policies and beliefs, what exactly do you this he would be unhappy about with Obama's first year in office?

yeah, right....I knew what you meant. - anon

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Read my post again. I never claimed to know "so much" about Lincoln, but it's obvious you don't either. I have read his history and what he accomplished while in the white house. Lincoln envisioned the country as All Men are created equal. That each and every person has the possibilities to do whatever they want. Hard work and saving for your future. Not work hard so you can give it to someone else so that you will be equal. Obama has taken over 200 years of hard work and within less than a year destroy what our founding fathers worked for.

There are so many other things Lincoln would be ashamed of what Obama and other presidents before him did. Obama in no Lincoln my dear.

RACE? im starting to see the pattern here - bickie

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The original poster nor myself made any reference to RACE. I guess the method of rebuttal to any moderate or progressive on this board is to take the comment and somehow work it into a template with their favorite keywords
race . . . socialist . . . sbortion . . . which has nothing to do with the original post. Also, instead of repeating your favorite little quote ad nauseum you might do a little research on sedition.

You tell 'em, dnh! - AzRain

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I totally agree with everything you wrote in your attempts to argue with "bickie." Unfortunately, common sense just doesn't work with liberals.

After all, Liberalism is a disease! - It is best to stay away! nm

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