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Gun-toting marchers: US â��faces civil warâ�� over health reform

Posted: Apr 20, 2010

By Agence France-Presse
Monday, April 19th, 2010 -- 4:54 pm

GRAVELLY POINT PARK, Virginia -- Several dozen gun-toting activists rallied Monday in a small national park near Washington DC to issue dire warnings that the United States could face civil war unless big government stops eating away at their rights.

"This isn't about gun laws -- this is about liberty, about restoring the constitution," anti-government activist Michael van der Boegh told AFP at the sparsely attended rally of mostly white, middle-aged men.

One of several speakers who addressed the crowd from the back of a white pick up truck, Van der Boegh has used Internet postings in the past to call on Americans unhappy with a new law reforming the health care system to throw bricks through the windows of politicians' offices who voted for it.

On Monday, he warned that the United States could face a new civil war if the administration tries to force through health care reforms or any other laws the activists feel would erode their constitutional rights.

"My call to break windows and all the work I do is to call attention to the fact that civil war could happen in the United States," he said.

The remainder of the article can be found at:

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0419/marchers-civil-war-health-reform/

;

Good for them......constitutionally sound....they have the - right!

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

So you're fully engaged in the mindset that you should do things - just because you can?

[ In Reply To ..]
just askin

Do what? Protest? You can protest you know.... - you got a problem with that?

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Carry a gun for show - is what I meant

[ In Reply To ..]
x

They have a constitutional right to do so...... - they are unloaded BTW.....sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If everyone would stop being babies over "guns" and realize the crime rate would drastically go down if the CRIMINALS were always aware that someone they choose to attack might have a weapon to protect themselves.

I guarantee if YOU thought you or your family were in danger by a thug who had a weapon and YOU didn't, you sure as shoot would be hoping for one then.

Back to the original question? - Are you going to

[ In Reply To ..]
answer? Everyone knows there will be a lot of folks packing only for the sake of exercising their rights.

So, are you fully engaged in the mindset that you should do something just because you can?

are you dense? I said they have the right to do so - so they should if they want

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

Are you stupid or what? Uh huh - Just the "type"

[ In Reply To ..]
to put on a show with your chest puffed out like a banty rooster. Lots of folks will be laughing at the likes of you as usual. A bunch of "for show" small-minded people gathered together sporting their unloaded weapons "for protection" lol. Wonder where the "mine's bigger than yours" contest will take place. hmmmm

People who have guns are small-minded? - gun phobia?

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

Can't grasp the concept? Try thinking about it - a bit more

[ In Reply To ..]
You're being too simple.

Here's a concept for ya.......... - ..sm

[ In Reply To ..]
THIS IS OUT OF THE DC AREA....

Liberal business and political titans like John Hechinger and Walter Fauntroy lobbied for a near-total gun ban. A council composed of Marion Barry, Polly Shackleton, John Wilson, and other civil-rights veterans agreed. But they had no illusions.

â��What we are doing today will not take one gun out of the hands of one criminal,â�� Barry said.

How right he was. Despite the fact that DC is home to 40 law-enforcement agencies, the illegal gun economy operates like a daily bazaar. Criminals import guns primarily from Maryland and Virginia.

People who work in downtown DC or live west of Rock Creek Park exist in a world mostly without guns. But residents of tough neighborhoods on the cityâ��s east side hear gunshots as often as the chirping of birds. All but a few gun murders last year took place east of Rock Creek Park.

What has this got to do with the protest and - carrying

[ In Reply To ..]
unloaded guns to it? I don't believe guns should be banned. I don't anyone who does. I don't believe marijuana should be illegal either. I believe in the Fair tax, etc. but I don't believe people should do things just because they can.

Like what? You CAN drive a car...you do. You CAN vote... - hopefully you do.......sm

[ In Reply To ..]
you CAN voice your opinion, you do. You can choose not to carry a gun; that is your choice. They chose to carry one because they can.

You can't cite any violence at this rally whatsoever.

You don't have an argument except you didn't like what they were saying, which is take back our govt, stop the govt waste, stop govt from continuing to try to take away our rights, force more and more taxes on us for no other reason than to support MORE social programs and their own agendas. They did nothing wrong and for some reason, that just bothers you.....

You're missing the whole point of having a reason - to do something

[ In Reply To ..]
other than for show. I drive my car to get where I need to go. I vote because I feel it is my duty as an American citizen, not just because I can. I do have a gun. I don't carry it unloaded to show off.

If your state says you can, then you can... - but......sm

[ In Reply To ..]
wouldn't you like to know you had it with you if you were being threatened by crime? Might be singing a different tune then.

You can always walk....don't HAVE to drive a car...you CHOOSE to. You don't have to get on here and voice your opinion, CHOOSE to....simply because you can.

You're missing the point again _ a thinking - person

[ In Reply To ..]
assesses a situation and makes a responsible decision whether their rights should/need to be exercised. Carrying a handgun should NEVER be "just because I can."

Sure it should......sure would deter the crime rate - dontcha think? sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Where is your mind?? If you're carrying a firearm, dontcha think the criminals would think twice before choosing you as their victim? Texans can carry a gun and I'm glad they do..... our state allows us to carry a firearm...just not concealed, though they are trying to change that. I hope they do.

Honestly, how can you assess a situation beforehand? Do you KNOW you won't be assaulted in the parking lot or at a "public park"? How do you assess that situation beforehand, other than making sure you have protection should the need arise.... yes, carrying a handgun should be "just because you can"..... you never know when you might truly need it!

Ever heard of crime?! It happens every day around here....

Again, we're talking about the show at the - protest

[ In Reply To ..]
okay? Oh, and try not to run away with the word "show" okay?

According to your mindset, ANYONE who protest is just - for show...they should all stay home

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

How did you arrive at this brilliant - conclusion?

[ In Reply To ..]
when the whole thing is about carrying unloaded weapons to a protest? huh?

Was there any violence at this rally? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Would there might have been if they just showed up protesting their rights to bear arms without arms and the loonies decide to attack/assault them just because they don't like what they are protesting about? WHo knows....

I suspect the fact they had firearms sure was a deterent to crime. Just go look at the statistics of muggings/rapes/murders that happened that day alone around DC on those WITHOUT firearms.... who came out on top? The helpless without protection or the crooks?

Again, you miss the - point

[ In Reply To ..]
sigh

Did it ever cross your mind....... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
There was NO violence at this rally. Shouldn't you have been more concerned about all the crime going on all around the city with guns carried by criminals who, according to DC's gun ban, shouldn't have had them, but did?!! Shouldn't you be MORE concerned that the innocent have no way of protecting themselves from these crimes?

Think a little....it goes a long ways...

This is a completely separate issue. - We were

[ In Reply To ..]
talking about a bunch of silly show-offs.

Show-offs? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I have 3 friends who live within walking distance of the capital; they have worked and lived there for 15+ years. Their thoughts were the people of DC were taking notice that HOPEFULLY this would be an indication to their governemnt that since the innocent citizens of DC cannot bear firearms to protect themselves against ANYTHING, that perhaps this would help them in some way gain their rights to have firearms back to the people. These people weren't silly show-offs in their minds...they were hope. The people of DC have been fighting once again to get their rights back, taking from them by their government (get it?). They have no way to protect themselves. Even the mayor said so. So these "silly show-offs" were a glimmer of hope for them that someone was standing up for THEIR rights as well to bear arms....

You need to do some homework....these people were making a stand for everyone involved.....even those liberal nutjobs who think guns are "bad".....

Hope? How so? - You are

[ In Reply To ..]
kidding yourself if you think for one minute that it was anything more than a show of macho. Not about gun laws at all.

You "betcha" it was! DC citizens liked it..... - you should have been there! lol

[ In Reply To ..]
@@

Oh, you're not talking about the original post - No wonder

[ In Reply To ..]
Go back and see what the string is about.

Unloaded in theory only. All reports I have heard and read - say different. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

What difference does it make.....they're not shooting - them for Heaven sakes!

[ In Reply To ..]
Wouldn't matter though.....what do you have against a loaded gun by a licensed individual? If everyone thought like you, we would be like Europe.... they took away EVERYONE's guns and guess what?

The crime rate SOARED!! Why? Because the criminals continued to get guns (they always do) and the innocent had no way to protect themselves from house break-ins, asaults on the streets, etc.

Honey, if you have to ask about the difference between - brandishing loaded vs unloaded guns in...

[ In Reply To ..]
a crowded public setting where right-wing extremist hot-heads are whupping up seditious civil war rhetoric, there is no point in even trying to post a reply. A big fat DUH should suffice.

Your made up argument is just that..... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
How about the fruitloops low-lifes walking the streets of DC EVERYDAY with guns on them ILLEGALLY while the citizens of DC are not allowed to protect themselves?

What do you call those people who load theirs for the very purpose of harming/killing someone if they JUST FEEL IT in order to take something they want? Probably little sweethearts, no doubt..... they don't care what setting they're in....everyone is an opportune moment for them.

It's become quite obvious what your big opposition is about and it's not about WHAT they have on them but WHO is carrying them......

Thats not this issue and you know it. Your parting shot - is grossly inaccurate.

[ In Reply To ..]
My opposition is based on both the what AND the who. But my concern is for innocent bystanders within range of the ignorant hot-heads and most importantly, for their divisive, destructive, UNdemocratic rhetoric and behavior, their expressed support for and promotion of violence against their fellow citizens based simply on their opposing political views and their knuckle-dragging, neanderthal notions about not only halting progress, but setting it back a hundred years or so. This ain't the wild, wild, west. It's a bygone era.

Did I mention how much of a turn-off their ignorance is?

Cite me where there was any violence at this rally.... - safest place around for the day

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

Cite me where there was no chance of - violence

[ In Reply To ..]
Everyone has fists too, but that doesn't keep fist fights from happening occasionally. It just depends on the person and the situation. Unfortunately, not everyone is stable enough to carry a gun. Flying bullets are much more dangerous than flying fists. An innocent bystander can usually get out of the way of fists.

There was no violence and STILL you have something - to complain about.....NM

[ In Reply To ..]
^^

You have a very simple view not unlike a teenager saying, "so what, - nothing happened Mom"

[ In Reply To ..]
when they take unnecessary chances.

Why play dumb? Its about fanatics toting loaded guns and - inciting violence and thug mentality

[ In Reply To ..]
that advocates division in the nation to such extreme levels they would rather declare war on their own follow citizens than to accept the outcomes from the democratic process that they so emphatically claim they are defending.

Wrongo!! - sm

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Even George Washington didn't trust the federal govt.... - at least he got it! smPosted: Apr 14th, 2010 - 1:44 pm

Did George Washington trust the federal government?

In response to a proposal for gun registration George Washington said: â��Absolutely not. If the people are armed and the â��federalistsâ�� do not know where the arms are, there can never ben an oppressive government.â��

Clearly, George Washington did not trust the Federal government, but also defined as with the 12th grievance that the federal government was to be subject to the "powers" of the individual citizen.

George Washington also established very important points in his statement.

1.) It is an inalienable right to have a unregistered arm.

2.) The Federal government has no right to know where they are.

3.) The Right to conceal weapons is an inalienable right....

For the right simply to conceal; and for the purpose of putting down their own oppressive governments, as George Washington and James Madison clearly defines in their definitions to that inalienable right.

4.) It separates the meaning, and draws a solid line between the Free Citizens and the Federal Government.

Repeat: Cite the passage in the Constitution where the founding fathers - specifically sanctioned

[ In Reply To ..]
carrying loaded guns in national parks. The only reason they were allowed to congregate in that manner is because Obama decided to uphold the shrub's measure by signing off on the ruling back in March 2009, despite the political fallout from his base supporters.

I am respectfully requesting that if you cannot cite the passage in the Constitution I am asking for, kindly insert your unrelated right wing propaganda under someone else's post

the passage is the "right to bear arms"....it meant anywhere - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
They would have had no reason to put in a separate PASSAGE for public parks or anywhere else because the right to bear arms meant exactly that!

It's really sad that our founding fathers' understanding of its citzens' rights to have a gun on them at any and all times to protect themselves and their families have been lost on so many idiots in this country.....

Thank you. That's exactly what it's about. (nm) - Nikki

[ In Reply To ..]
NM

Cite me the violence that took place at the rally... - OR..... sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You could look up the violence that took place ALL OVER DC that day and NONE at the rally. Which do you prefer?

Look up the murders/rapes that day EVERYWHERE BUT at the rally.... you're just grasping at straws.

exactly right-sm - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
But some people will say it's just fine to tote around loaded guns because no one has been hurt yet. Once someone does get hurt, I wonder what they'll say?

Where exactly was all that violence? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

Bear in mind, there was NO violence at this rally..... - however........sm

[ In Reply To ..]
the thugs all around the city continued to shoot and murder while this was going on. The sirens never stopped...where? Not at the rally...but throughout the city where crime runs rampant on the innocent...those without protection from the low-lifes that prey on them.

To congregate in parks with guns, thanks to O. - As for the Constitutionality question...

[ In Reply To ..]
watch for that false claim to be struck down in the courts time and time again.

You forget the "right to bear arms"...what you got against - guns for protection anyway?

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

Please cite the passage where the founding fathers sanctioned - open carry in public parks, including

[ In Reply To ..]
the one directly across the street from the White House. Protection? Against what, pray tell. Each other?

Who cares that it's across the street from the white house - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Crimes are committed everyday in DC, right across the street from the white house and everywhere else around there. The reason? The people had their basic civil rights taken away and not allowed to have a weapon (other than a hunting rifle) to protect themselves. Guess what? The criminals always manage to find a gun, so what's the point in taking away the right to bear arms from its citizens but only to make them impotent to protect themselves.

The community in DC have been fighting to get back those rights because they are sick and tired of being robbed, beaten, murdered by low-lifes who think they have the right to take what someone else has. They want their "right to bear arms" BACK.... I have many friends living in that area and the thing they found eye opening was the actual citizens of DC GET IT because they don't have the right to protect themselves anymore and they understand why the protesting is taking place.

You think muggings, murders, etc ONLY take place in your house? They take place in the public everyday...including public parks!!! Right to bear arms means anywhere, anytime, not just sitting in a chair in your house!

If you want to change the subject, start a new thread. - Do you realize just how

[ In Reply To ..]
transparent that bankrupt tactic really is? All it does is show just how ill equipped you are to address an issue directly and stay on task. How absurd you folks are to think that you can convince Americans to support that kind of ineptitude in the upcoming eletions.

Cite me where they didn't? They said right to bear arms at all - times....you figure it out...nm

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

You selectively left out the "unloaded guns" as well... - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

George Washington got it right.....there's a reason for - "right to bear arms"......sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Even George Washington didn't trust the federal govt.... - at least he got it! smPosted: Apr 14th, 2010 - 1:44 pm

Did George Washington trust the federal government?
In response to a proposal for gun registration George Washington said: â��Absolutely not. If the people are armed and the â��federalistsâ�� do not know where the arms are, there can never ben an oppressive government.â��

Clearly, George Washington did not trust the Federal government, but also defined as with the 12th grievance that the federal government was to be subject to the "powers" of the individual citizen.

George Washington also established very important points in his statement.

1.) It is an inalienable right to have a unregistered arm.

2.) The Federal government has no right to know where they are.

3.) The Right to conceal weapons is an inalienable right....

For the right simply to conceal; and for the purpose of putting down their own oppressive governments, as George Washington and James Madison clearly defines in their definitions to that inalienable right.

4.) It separates the meaning, and draws a solid line between the Free Citizens and the Federal Government.

In what situation (regarding these remarks) - today

[ In Reply To ..]
do you believe you would need to take up your gun against the government? How would you accomplish this?

The safest that place has been in YEARS! - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
xx

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By Stephen C. WebsterTuesday, April 27th, 2010 -- 12:34 am At one point in his career, right-wing pundit Glenn Beck happily declared that President George W. Bush and D.C. Comics icon Batman are just alike: both strong and unafraid to take down the bad guys, no matter where they hide. ... Which is why it was a bit odd listening to Beck's Monday radio broadcast, in which he called Bush a "progressive," placing his one-time hero squarely in a political ideology the conspiratorial-minded hos ...