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Governor Mike Pence is either very dumb

Posted: Mar 30, 2015

He refuses to state whether or not his idiotic "religious freedom law" will allow people to discriminate against gays. Of course it will. Good for all the businesses and athletes who are boycotting this law and the state.

I am really getting sick of this being the "I Hate Obama" board, "no, I hate him more," "no, I REALLY hate him."

If you think that's politics, it's not. It's just boring.

So, anyone, what think you about this situation of governors approving laws that make it look like those doing the discriminating are the victims?

;

It makes me ashamed to be - a Hoosier

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even though I haven't lived there for 40 years.

Arkansas getting ready to pass a similar - bill.

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Back to the 50s, quick everybody!!

So if a governor has morals, he's dumb? - sm

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It's time the dems and their Godless ways stop expecting everyone in the world to think like they do! The governor doesn't hate gay people. And even if he does, that's his right. The liberal thought police are wearing themselves out trying to force all of us to accept everything they try to force down our throats. If a Christian florist or baker or pastor or dressmaker or limousine driver doesn't want to provide a service for a gay marriage, then big deal! The couple can go down the street and find a business that has no problem with it. That's what Mike Pence is trying to explain!

If I were one of the business owners being forced to sell a service to gay couple, then I'd put a big sign in my window that says "All profits go to Family Research Council" or some other conservative values organization.

Hate and discrimination are immoral. - nm

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nm

It is his right to hate gay people if he wants to - but NOT to legalize discrimination

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What if I owned a business and some obviously religious people fresh from church came in and because I am an atheist I explained what they believe goes against my beliefs so I am going to refuse service, how would that sit with those who are for this law?

Regardless of how you feel about gay people, since gay marriage is legal in Indiana, how can he try to get away with this blatant discrimination being set in law?

Only Democrats will bring the word "hate" into this. - LM

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nm

Oh, so you don't contest "discrimination" then? - NM

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*

Why are you assuming that only Democrats are against this? - xyz (nm)

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nm

pardon me, but that's just not the case - sm

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The poster to whom you responded was, in turn, responding to the remark below, in which the idea of hate (and the rather powerful indictment that democrats are Godless) is raised by a conservative:

"It's time the dems and their Godless ways stop expecting everyone in the world to think like they do! The governor doesn't hate gay people. And even if he does, that's his right."

I suppose I could mirror your remark by saying "only Republicans will bring the word hate into this."

He has the right to his personal beliefs but - nana7

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he does not have the right to force his beliefs on everyone. He was elected to represent everyone in his state and that includes gay people. Next it will be a black business owner can refuse white people their services or white people can refuse black people their services. What about because they feel you are too old? Or you are Catholic or Mormon or a different religion then they are. Where doees it stop?

I know a man who looks gay, talks very girly but he is not gay. So how will the business owner distinguish between someone who is really gay and someone who is not. So if they think I am a lesbian they can refuse me? Why just gays? You can't tell a gay person or a straight person just by looking at them.

For instant could you tell Cary Grant wsa gay, but he was and died of AIDS. Every woman in America drooled over him, yet he was gay. Sexual preference has no business anywhere except the bedroom. Bottom line.

He didn't make the resolution or pass the bill. - Truthhurts

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The Legislature did and as far as I know, the legislature of any state is supposedly working on behalf of their citizens.

The governor only signed it.

Cary Grant was NOT gay. It was disputed widely by friends and family. He sued one commedien for slander AND WON.

He did NOT die of AIDS. He died of a stroke. He had either a stroke or heart attack one a couple years earlier and this stroke "did him in."

Don't know where you got your info on his sexual preferences but it's totally wrong and definitely inaccurate.

I think you're confusing him with Rock Hudson, who died of AIDS and was the first actor to disclose it.

Ahh, Indiana! - The state who brought you

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Richard Mourdock.

And he did NOT VETO it - It is his and he is defending it

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Albeit poorly, but defending it. George Stephanopoulos' interview was very good.

No, but he SIGNED it - and is trying, very poorly,

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to defend it.

He Signed The Bill Into Law - nm

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You are wrong - anonie

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I think you mean Rock Hudson. Cary Grant was not gay.

you are right. It was Rock Hudson. - nana7

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My dementia showing a bit. Sorry about that.

I am proud of our governor - anonie

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I do not care how you attack me. I am sick of gays wanting to force their way of life down everyone's throat by making it okay. It will never be okay and will always be simply an unnatural.

Why should someone go against his belief in God and his Commandments and the Bible and do anything to further sin like these gays are commiting.

I don't care if you believe the Bible or in God Himself, I do and I just wish people would go elsewhere. There is always someone willing to do anything for money. Leave good Christian people alone and let them have a say in what they will and won't do.

Our governor did nothing that Bill Clinton did not do years ago signing the same bill.

As for me, I will always love the sinner but not the sin, so don't lay into me. I just disagree and wish people didn't want to live this way. It makes me physically ill to see two gay people out somewhere flaunting it around in front of children or people it offends, but of course, it doesn't matter if it offends a Christian and who cares if they are not good examples to children.

Tell me how you explain this to kids who are small and see this nonsense and horrid behavior.

Just let's stop trying to push the Gay agenda. I am sick of it. We have a right to live too. Let them live like they want behind their doors at home, not in front of everyone by demonstrating or whatever.

It is going to protect Christians from having to give up their businesses or being sued by some couple who could go elsewhere. They do have rights believe it or not, Christians.

Just speechless! I see others are as well. This is not my - brand of Christianity. nm

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.

No one said he has morals - sm

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In fact, I find it rather immoral to be putting my feelers into anyone's bedroom or sexual preferences.

If the idea of thought police troubles you, I think it's important to note that objections to other human beings - about whom you know nothing - are made up of thoughts. When we ask the government to uphold our right to ACT on these thoughts, we CREATE the thought police.

We can't know that someone is gay by the way they behave towards us or anyone else. I'm trying to figure out what kind of thinking is required to imagine and assess what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

Looks like Georgia is thinking twice about - their "religious freedom" law now

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They canceled a panel meeting to discuss this proposed law. Let's hope they see the light and throw it out.

Why would anyone want to hire a business who - doesn't want to do it?

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There are lots of businesses from which to choose. If I knew that a business has a bias against short fat women, I just wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go on the news and cry and whine about it. I'd find a business that was happy to help me. FREE ENTERPRISE!

Now if it's an employer that doesn't hire me because I'm short and fat, then that's a different situation altogether. Of course I'd feel like I was personally attacked in that case.

My point is, liberals can't find enough to whine and complain about. Being gay is a choice, not a gene. You might make a choice to not wear shoes or a shirt, and I don't have to serve you. You made that choice.

The color of our skin is NOT a choice. A business is wrong and unlawful if they don't serve a customer because of their race. Our color is given to us by God, and we should be proud of whatever race we are.

I won't expect liberals to understand or agree with me.

You are absolutely correct - so why the law then?

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This is what happens already.

I would venture to guess most homosexuals would NOT go to a homophobic florist to prove a point and sue them, they would rather be served by someone who doesn't hate them, and those cases that have come to light probably started as originally an honest consumer not thinking in a million years the business would decide they didn't want to serve them because of their lifestyle, but discovering it too late.

Why on earth does that florist need a law to "protect" them against their actions?

I don't think being gay is a choice but I do think being anti-gay is a choice, so why do they need a law to allow them to discriminate?

When you state you would feel personally attacked if you weren't hired because you were short and fat, I think you have hit on the problem here.

This law is saying it's okay NOT to hire someone because they are gay because it goes against your religious beliefs.

In Indiana there is no statewide non-discrimination law that protects gays and lesbians in employment, housing and education, so exactly what do you think will happen here?

Easy one. Because Democrats want to control - everything.

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nm

Notice how DemAlinsky's jump right to "homophobic" - "Hating gays" to describes someone'

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religious beliefs...all the while completely stripping any rights from the believers all the while screaming intolerance. DemAlinsky's endless hypocrisy is a study in psychology.

If you are a Christian, you are treated with disdain, disrespect, verbally abused (in some cases physically abused), made fun of, held in contempt, can have your faith mocked simply because you stand by your faith...all the while DemAlinsky's on the soap box about tolerance.

Christians merely asked that gays support a business more in line with what the gays believe.

To hear DemAlinsky blow hards, they make it sound like gays are being run out of town at the end of a pitch fork with their hair set aflame. Why not boycott/sue Muslim business because they actually do kill gays?

Give the believers the same courtesy you want for yourself - gay or straight, Christian or no belief system.

is it a choice to be attracted to men? - nana7

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Its not a choice to be attracted to either the different sex or the same sex. It just happens.

My son is gay and I take exception to you saying he is choosing to be gay. I can't tell you the times he tried to commit suicide because he did not like who he is. He did not choose to be this way but that is the way he is. And I am very proud of my son. He has come a long way and never again will he try to hide who he is just like you can't change the color of your eyes or the color of your natural hair.

You are born gay not choose to be gay.

There is no better testimony than the words spoken....sm - Alice

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by a loving mother in support of her child. Your son has come a long way because he had a loving, understanding, educated and supportive mother behind him. Homosexuality is NOT a choice.

Thank you Alice. - nana7

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I appreciate your kind words.

I have no problem with that, but if someone (sm) - Rosie

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does not want to bake a wedding cake for him because of his/her religious beliefs, that is their right. He can go to another bakery.

No. This is America. All citizens are to be treated.... - sm

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equally. If you cannot do that, you shouldn't be in business. Simple.

That go for those trying to impose Sharia Law? - Spoken like someone that never ran/owned

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a business.

What about illegal aliens demanding you hire them...that okay, too?

Interesting that you would bring up Sharia law. - sm

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Law based on religion (which is against the Constitution, by the way). Why is it suddenly okay to have laws based on religion when it's evangelical Christianity?

Ummm Twisting what poster said - Constitution clearly states freedom

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of religion and the ability to practice it as deemed appropriate by the person engaging in that religion. Would serve you well to actually read the Constitution.

BTDW - Sharia law KILLS gays. You like that better?

Exactly...that is the whole point. I should no more have - to change my religious beliefs to

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accommodate someone else's sexual preference. If someone does not want to buy or do business with me because i have faith, that is also their choice. They can go anywhere they want without forcing their beliefs on me. Yet, I bet they would be might pi__sed if they came to my business and I subjected them to a sermon of my choosing. Yet, others think I be forced to participate in activities that are in direct contrast of my faith. Where is there anything "fair" about that? Sick to death of the whole politically correct garbage.

So am I. I agree with Rosie. I don't care personally if (sm) - LM

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if someone is gay, straight, transgender, whatever. But when it interferes with MY religious beliefs, and the government tells me I MUST bake them a cake, or whatever my business happens to me, no, no there is something wrong with that. This country's Constitution allows us religious freedom. Period.

the constitution gives you the right to choose - nana7

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your religious beliefs and where you want to worship. It does not given you the right to dicriminate against anyone who does not believe in your way of thinking.

But for the sake of arguement this is nothing new. This type of discrimination has been going on for years.

20 years ago my nephew got married and his fiancee was 5 months pregnant. They had a church wedding but they were denied 3 separate halls for the reception. When they called about their date it was available then suddenly after going in to see the places they were booked for that day. We all knew why because when they seen she was pregnant their attitude changed but they just were not blatent about it.

So if you don't want to make a wedding cake for a gay person, then don't make it. You don't need a law to give you the right to discriminate against anyone. I find it offensive they are putting the word "gay" in this so called law.

When you are in business, unless you are maybe Holly Lobby which is clearly a religious establishment, you are there to offer a service to everyone but to target a certain group is wrong plain and simple.

Hobby Lobby is a religious establishment??!! - Who knew? I thought it was a craft store.

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nm

It is now, at least since Burwell vs Hobby Lobby. - NM

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NM

Good Lord, the people who post here are - unbelievable.

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nm

All these posts tell me this has nothing to do with discrimination - and everything about govt control

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Again!! For the 1 business that may not want to do a gay wedding...there are literally dozens that would do so. To hone in and sue one business that will not do what YOU want, tells me that it has nothing to do with discrimination, but it is all about control. If you were really as tolerant as you say, you would not be harassing them. What would you do if you had a restaurant, served pork, and Muslims came in demanding you remove pork from your menu or they were going to sue you because it was offensive to them and you were discriminating against ALL Muslims because you served pork? Let them go to a restaurant that will do what THEY want, or they can move to any of the 50+ Muslims countries.

I have owned businesses (yes plural, not only MT related). I worked harder, longer than any employee and was the last to be paid. In bad times, there were times I did not draw a pay to make sure my people were taken care of. I assumed ALL risk for those businesses; so, I get to decide what that business was all about. If someone did not want to patronize my business - fine. I had to time to harass them and "discriminate" because I had payroll to meet, and a multitude of other customers wanting the service I provided without dictating to me what sexual beliefs I had to "tolerate".

If someone did/does not like what I did/do in my businesses - move on to a business that will take orders from someone that you can dictate to.

Personally, I do not care who someone sleeps with or not...I keep my sexual activity out of your realm, keep it out of mine. You want tolerance, then exercise it toward others.

Brava!!! - LM

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nm

how is serving someone accommodating their sexual preference? - sm

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Serving or doing commerce with an LGBT person doesn't mean we are accommodating their sexual preference. It certainly does not require us to change our religious beliefs. No one is asking you to be LGBT, too.

There are all kinds of sinners out there to choose from. This focus on the LGBT community is baffling to me.

We are all free to dislike the choices of others, and we can even designate some of these choices as sins, but we cannot ask government to legislate sinfulness for us.

You may disapprove of gay people, but dealing with them doesn't make you a sinner, and no one is forcing you to change your religious beliefs. Entreating the government to legislate and assign value to one sin over another due to YOUR personal preference is a very bad idea.

As Jesus said... - sm

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"Love thy neighbor as thyself (except if he's gay!)."

Grossly misquoted - nm

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nm

It's sarcasm. - sm

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Of course Jesus never said "except if he's gay." It amazes me how people so readily use religion as justification to look down on or discriminate against others.

It is also amazing how others try to sarcasm (very poorly I might add) - to condescend to others

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nm

-

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This isn't about religious freedom - sm

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Lots of people do things we disapprove of on moral or religious grounds. We can't legislate personal likes and dislikes, and we certainly cannot legislate preferences. We certainly should not attempt to canonize our dislikes by pretending that those we disapprove of somehow infringe upon our religious freedom.

You did exactly WJWD. Because he even stood in front of a - prostitute and said

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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", refusing to allow her stoning or shunning by other sinners.

You did exactly what he would do for your son, here.

I see Jesus in you more than anyone posting in this thread.

God bless you

You know post you know "exactly" what Jesus would do?? - Amazing arrogance.

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Also see only passages that support your POV. Not one passage of what Jesus said about homosexuality.

Try reading those and get back to us 'K.

You'll be searching a long time. - sm

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Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, at least not anything that's recorded in the Bible.

Pretty clear you have not read the Bible - YOU look like the one needing to search

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x

Wrong. - nm

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x

Jesus himself never said a word about homosexuality. - No proof for what does not exist

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There is no proof that can be provided for something that does not exist. Jesus himself never said a word about homosexuality. God never mentioned homosexuality in commandment. All else is man-made Pharisee law. It could be argued that other prophets spoke against homosexuality on behalf of God, and it's possible they did, at the time. However, anthropological research tells us that throughout civilization history, only societies that wished to proliferate banned homosexuality and birth control. Overpopulated civilizations freely allowed these things. At the time the bible was written, the Jews and Muslims were trying to proliferate. This is no longer the case. Just like God saying no meat in the old testament, meat is fine now, in the new. However, both Judao-Christians and Muslims still inexplicably cling to these things anyway, despite the fact they aren't necessary anymore.

Pharisee law also included things like you can beat your wife as long as the stick is no thicker than your thumb. God expects us to use wisdom and compassion when considering man-made law, even old stories from the bible. As he did when he disobeyed Pharisee law by healing Lepers on the Sabbath, believed to be suffering because of sin. As Christians, we aren't to take our eyes off the ball of God or Christ's actual words versus others, as well as always keeping in mind what was historical and cultural convention at the time.

Wrong again - nm

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Wrong again

The burden of proof is on you. - different poster

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Find that passage in the Bible where Jesus says anything about homosexuality. I won't hold my breath because you won't be able to find it.

and if you were refused housing or groceries because you were short and fat? - what then? nm

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1 Corinthians 6:19-20 -- Honor God with your body. - sm

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Imagine the following scenario in a restaurant in America.

"But I'm a good Christian, madam, and what you have done to your body is against my religious doctrine. I'll not be a party to your lifestyle, as the law allows, and I'll be serving the Lord but not be serving you."

Being fat is a choice, you know. Think about how you'd feel to be legally excluded service or a job based on 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

19 states and Clinton - think religious freedom should be preserved....

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Our religious and moral freedom is being taken away from us. Leaving religion aside, if I believe that something or someone is immoral I believe that I should have the right to stand up for my belief by not doing business with that person and no one should be able to tell me that I have to. If my neighbor is a wife-beater and he comes to my restaurant and wants to be served, do I have to serve him? If a couple opens a porn store in my neighborhood, do I have to bake a wedding cake for them when they decide to get married or can I object on moral grounds? There is more to this than just the gay issue.

Indiana's law is worse than - all those laws

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Indiana's law has one major difference. Those other laws are between a person or entity and a govt, Indiana's law is the only one that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens.

Hmmm, private citizens, where have I heard that before. Oh yeah, corporations are people (or private citizens), my friend.

The Indiana law differs substantially from the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, signed by President Clinton in 1993, and all other state RFRAs.

There are several important differences in the Indiana bill but the most striking is Section 9. Under that section, a “person” (which under the law includes not only an individual but also any organization, partnership, LLC, corporation, company, firm, church, religious society, or other entity) whose “exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened” can use the law as “a claim or defense… regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding.”

Every other Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to disputes between a person or entity and a government. Indiana’s is the only law that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens.* This means it could be used as a cudgel by corporations to justify discrimination against individuals that might otherwise be protected under law. Indiana trial lawyer Matt Anderson, discussing this difference, writes that the Indiana law is “more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors” and opens up “the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate…”

I bet anyone against this law never even read it! - Truthhurts

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Everyone is always jumping to conclusions without reading the law. I didn't read it because I don't live in that state but it's probably not much different than the other 19 states who passed similar laws, nor when a similar law passed during Clinton's administration.

Keep listening to negative news sites for one-sided news instead of doing the research to find out what's really in it (just like ACA by Congress). Doing so only pushes the agenda of people like George Soros and the other Alinsky followers. I'm sure if Madelyn O'Hare was still alive, she's be screaming about this new law, too.

Try this - then

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http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-freedom-of-religion-law-that-Indiana-just-passed-and-the-same-type-of-law-that-other-states-have-passed.

Sorry, link won't work

This explains why Indiana's law is worse - see link

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Sm

Hate is what is done now - sm

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I cannot believe that people think it is right to refuse services to any people who are law abiding and capable of paying for the services rendered. Only in very specific circumstances where someone is disrespectful or causing a disturbance in a process, should they be asked to leave or be denied service.

This country was established on the basis of freedom and religious tolerance. Now the GOD people think they can dictate morals to everyone. Frankly, I cannot believe that gay couples would be very interested in being around the sort of people who are wishing to deny them service to begin with. If I were in that situation, I would not frequent or support people who did not support, or at least have proper respect for me and my lifestyle and, at the very least, provide the basic services purchased.

We have seen a number of these episodes come up surrounding wedding cakes and services. I cannot imagine wanting to have anyone involved in my ceremony that didn't support my way of life, or at least have the common sense to have respect for other's choices.

If these ultra-Christians have their way, they will only drive this issue back into the "closet." There are many, many gay people out there that haven't even considered declaring for obvious societal norm issues. It just doesn't seem very Christian to judge and persecute those for not believing as they do.

OBAMA VOTED FOR THIS VERY THING!! - Short memory?

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So did Clinton.

Obama must have 'EVOLVED' again. - Tool.

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How quickly they forget.

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intelligent VP candidate with good answers (when he was allowed to state them). He look professional and at ease with himself... ...

Mar 03, 2017
"Vice President Mike Pence used a private e-mail account that was later compromised while he served as governor of Indiania, his office confirmed Thursday." From a news brief in today's Denver Post. Please do not say there are no national security issues involved because terrorism exists in the states as well. "The paper reported that Pence used the account to conduct government business including corresponding about potentially sensitive issues....." (Indianapolis Star) ...

Jul 14, 2011
US too dumb to know O is always right By MICHAEL GOODWIN Last Updated: 4:04 AM, July 13, 2011 Posted: 1:43 AM, July 13, 2011 When President Obama started talking at his news conference Monday, I listened intently for 15 minutes or so. Then I got fidgety as his half-truths about the debt grew into full-blown whoppers. As he droned on, I did something I never did before during an Obama appearance: I turned off the TV. Enough. He is the Man Who Won't Listen to Anybody, so why sh ...

Nov 12, 2013
Okay, not as dumb in the scheme of dumb things a person can do, but here it goes. We have a very large freezer and buy things in bulk to save money. Often, we have to take stuff out in order to get to the item we want to defrost. In most cases, we remember to put all the stuff back that we took out, but every now and then, we forget something. This time, it was a 5-lb bag of sausage. It is commercially-bought sausage, so there are probably plenty of preservatives in there. Anyway, it was ...

Nov 02, 2010
In Houstin, TX, we have a conservative group doing a "True the Vote" thing where they are there to make sure there is no fraud going on. As a conservative....this is just asking for trouble in my opinion. How can you detect fraud from standing outside? I guess unless you visibly watch every person that goes in to make sure the same person isn't going in....but seriously....how dumb. Now you have the New Black Panther Party retaliating and saying they will be there to ...

Aug 01, 2012
Wait - I lie. This is a GOOD decision. It will energize everyone in the liberal base that's one-billionth Cherokee. ...

Jul 24, 2013
I have a really dumb question. I have moderately severe osteoarthritis of my hip. I am finding it increasingly difficult to sit at a desk or table for longer than 15 or 20 minutes at a time. I find I am fairly more comfortable sitting on my recliner sofa and it's easier on my hip. Do any of you work at a desk or table? Do you have any suggestions. Some nights it's almost unbearable to sit for any length of time especially when it rains. Thanks ahead of time. ...

Jan 12, 2012
Are we raising the stupidest generation in American history? The statistics that you are about to read below are incredibly shocking. They indicate that U.S. high school students are basically as dumb as a rock. As you read the rest of this article, you will be absolutely amazed at the things that U.S. high school students do not know. At this point, it is really hard to argue that the U.S. education system is a success. Our children are spoiled and lazy, our schoo ...

Jun 02, 2012
if you have an appt with a dr and it is in suite 6000, does that mean the 6th floor? TIA ...

Oct 13, 2012
In an interview on "Extra," Clint Eastwood talked about his big night at the RNC as the mystery guest: "If they were dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something, they're gonna have to take what they get." Clint sure does have an odd way of paying respects to his RNC hosts, the event and the audience. ...

Dec 14, 2014
WASHINGTON – The man who oversaw the controversial CIA interrogation program defended the use of the techniques used on militants -- including waterboarding -- and said members of Congress, including Rep. Nancy Pelosi, were “fully aware” of the methods used. “She never objected to the techniques at all,” Jose Rodriguez, former director of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service, said on "Fox News Sunday." “All of these techniques were appro ...

Mar 01, 2012
no clue. I am so irritated with her. I am not a rude person by nature, but after I said how it was NOT appreciated her constant texts/calls/dropping by, you would think she would get the hint! Apparently not!! Ah well. Wish I had a crystal ball when I first friended her. I wish she was on facebook so I could unfriend her! LOL!! This is bordering on harrassment. I am about to report her for harrassment if she keeps it up. I am going to see how ...