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AP FACT CHECK: Premiums to Rise Under ObamaCare
Posted: Mar 17, 2010
WASHINGTON — Buyers, beware: President Barack Obama says his health care overhaul will lower premiums by double digits, but check the fine print.
Premiums are likely to keep going up even if the health care bill passes, experts say.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iVn9wrhB-3SF-Svo9kZyXd4bHRLAD9EG84VO0
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People who choose to take out a more comprehensive...sm - oldtimer
[ In Reply To ..]plan than the one they have now will see their premiums rise (no surprise there). The people who keep the same type of plan they have now will see their premiums decrease an estimated 15-20%. I would say that these are the promised lower premiums.
This is an absolute lie perpetuated by the same people - America wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]who have been lying to us all along
People who are keeping the same plan are seeing their premiums rise (I already have), and they are also going to rise again under Obamacare. What part of that don't you understand. You are being fed the party line and you are falling for it.
There is no way on earth our premiums are going to decrease. Just no way. Do the math. Think for yourself.
Liberals on this board are always screaming and yelling when a conservative spreads lies and rumors, yet here you spreading these lies and rumors.
Our premiums have gone UP. That means an increase. Our premiums are also going to increase under Obamacare. Again that means going up - as in I have to pay more money for the same exact policy I have right now.
Stop spreading lies and rumors in a futile effort to make the current administration seem more palatable.
Your premiums that HAVE gone up...sm - oldtimer
[ In Reply To ..]have NOTHING to do with Obama and, without HCR, they will continue to go up with no end in sight. Do YOUR homework, think for YOURself, instead of repeating the pub/insurance company mantra.
Thinking and researching...... - America wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]Is what you need to do. Some homework too would be good. Don't you understand basic economics. I guess not. But then again neither do the people in congress/senate.
Don't you understand why the health insurance companies are going to benefit from this. Why they are pushing for it. They are going to profit and it's basically a bail out for insurance companies. They are definitely not going to suffer if this crapcare plan is passed. However the people of the country will.
You need to stop spreading the lies and rumors that let government take over your health care and everything will be just fine... just trust me...I'll tell you the truth. Yeah, right. Do a little research.
If this passes, our health insurance premiums are going to rise. It's only common sense. Do some thinking for yourself instead of repeating what the current administration is spewing.
Our health insurance premiums are already rising. The..sm - oldtimer
[ In Reply To ..]question is will they continue to rise more under the Obama plan or by just doing nothing? I for one would rather have my money go to help insure the uninsured than to line the pockets of the insurance company executives.
Double digits for the last five years! nm - uninsured now
[ In Reply To ..].
Monthly premium with empl ins = 424 for me and DH - Under Obamacare = 86 for me and DH....
[ In Reply To ..]Based on 2009 incomes. We were hit hard by the recession. I was unemployed for 4.5 months. My husband worked FT but jobs fell off drastically at beginning of the year. By the end of the year, stress had made him too ill to work for 1.5 months.
I am unemployed and my husband is self-employed. He is his only employee. So you see, dear, we've been doing our homework all along and by our calculations, we will be paying a whopping 80% less under Obamacare.
Should our incomes ever be restored back to "normal", our monthly premium will be 209, which represents around a 50% savings.
So much for your do your homework command
Have you compared your policy to what will be offered with O'Care? - Backwards Typist
[ In Reply To ..]What did you use to calculate your savings? I'm really curious to know as I would like to calculate mine too, to see what the difference would be.
The calculation is easy. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I used the Kaiser Family Foundation calculator provided on their website at the link below. You will notice that they are a nonprofit and nonpartisan organization. When using the calclator, I selected the "Senate bill version" since it seems that is the one that they might be passing.
Because of our situations (me unemployed, my husband self-employed), our premiums will be heavily subsidized until such time that I find a job and his contract jobs re-emerge, which they seem to be doing, but at a snail's pace. We are currently on county assistance which will be up for renewal next December. I cannot complain about the quality of care we have received there, though the waits on the days we have appointments can be on the order of 1-3 hours at times. I just bring a book and a snack. No problem. On the up side, my full service clinic (medical, psychiatric, dental, vision, diagnostic, lab, nuclear medicine and pharmacy) is a short 3-block walk from my house.
The PCP I have is absolutely the BEST MD I have ever had. She is well worth the wait. Amazingly, she has a patient load of 2500 and is a teaching professor at the Baylor College of Medicine. When she encounters her patients in the halls, she greets them by first name without the aid of a chart in front of her! She and I were on the same page from the first moment I met her. She uses medical terms when communicating with me (as I reqeusted) and has been great about supplying me with all the meds I need, has been very exacting with dosage titration, very thorough with ordering tests, is into holostic care, referred me to physical therapy for my back (at long last), etc. I have been taking advantage of the weight reduction program they offer, attend free exercise classes and enrolled in smoking cessation as well.
She was able to tell me (on my first visit) I was allergic to the blood pressure medication I had been taking for nearly 3 years that was giving me dry cough, hoarseness, nasal congestion, headaches, breathing difficulties, stress urinary incontinence and pronounced fatigue. She placed a special request in with the pharmacy for a brand name med I would have never been able to afford under my old insurance plan. After she changed the medication, within 2 days ALL these symptoms vanished. I am especially grateful for the boosted energy.
Private insurance is not an option for my husband as long as pre-existing exclusions exist so he most likely will be opting for the public plan offered to federal employees. That plan is tiered and there are several HMO and PPO options under it. My age and history of hypertension also most likly will preclude participation in a private plan, unless I find coverage with an employer again. However, I will likely elect to accept employment from an employer who does NOT offer insurance, since the rate of pay is typically higher than full employee status and I would then have the option to participate in the exchange. The details on the (public plan) coverage are found at the link below and are far superior to what I had under BCBS Choice plan and Anthem (a more expensive plan with less coverage my employer switched to 3 months after I accepted the job). My experience with the county makes me more than willing to give the public plan a try, though I am actually hopeful I can stay with the county for a while.
Calculator
http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx
Federal employee insurance-lots of detailed info available here.
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/rates/index.asp
Okay...where do you find how much you will be paying under Obamacare - Amerca wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]Please do tell the website where you know how much you are going to be paying.
I pay more than you right now and I am the only one who works. Husband is unemployed. I see nothing about insurance rates going down. On top of that that is only for a catastrophic policy. Now tell me how crappy that is. I have to go through 10K a year before they kick in 60% of anything over 10K. Do I hope insurance rates go down...you bet.
I find it hard to believe that you are going to be paying on $86 dollars. How do you know that? What state do you live in? I'm on the west coast and my premiums are on the rise so much I am at a point where I can't afford it. If they have a solid "in writing" thing that show my health care premiums going down I'm all for it, but alas my dear, the basic rule of economics doesn't support this theory.
So have you really been doing your homework or just spewing what the liberal politicians who are doing their hardest to try and pass this piece of garbage crapcare plan are telling you. Please do tell... I cannot find any site anywhere that is going to give me a solid figure of what a new health care plan will cost me. Show me the site and I will eat my words.
I have been reading websites that say the opposite. And it only takes a little common sense to know that this plan is going to increase premiums for everyone because that is the only way they can pay for it to be able to give it to every single person breathing in the US.
On top of not only the increase in health premiums there is going to be a tax increase to help pay for the crapcare plan.
This plan they are trying to pass will end up bankrupting the US within four years. All you have to do is read what the economist says this means for the country. Here are a couple sites I came across.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/obamas-health-care-plan-p_n_502096.html
http://rawstory.com/2010/03/ap-premiums-rise-democrats-health-plan/
Please see msg. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I put the website in “The calculation is easy” post directly above yours.
Depending on your family constitution (kids at home vs just you and your spouse), your spouse will automatically qualify for Medicaid or, if you elect, you can pay for a different plan on the exchange for him. I live in Texas, which may explain the difference between our coverage, rates, etc, under employers. My deductible was $1000 under BCBS Choice with 10%/90% coverage (a plan my employer ditched for one that was not as good) and $1500 for BCBS Anthem with 20%/80% coverage. The latter plan of course did not cover nearly as much as the former and we paid more of it. This happened after the original company merged with a larger (greedier) company.
The reason my premium will be $86 is that I elect to be on the exchange, and based on income and age, it will be heavily subsidized. If you use the calculator, notice that they subsidize MORE of an older person’s premium than they do a younger one. I have heard about the problems the west coast have been facing. If you are willing to go the exchange route, you certainly will benefit both in terms of cost and coverage.
I will not address the rest of your uncalled for nonsense about me, my party affiliation (which you only assume to know) or any of the other ill-informed points you are trying to make. You will have choices to make under the HCR, like it or not. You can choose less or more coverage and less or more premium.
Use the calculator link from the Kaiser Family Foundation and before you go off half-cocked, please read about the organization. The remainder of your post is too ignorant to spend anymore time on. Bye, and happy homework.
Please see message - an honest reply - America wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]If I offended you in my last message I do apologize. That was not my intent, but I am truly frustrated with people who will tell me my insurance rates are going to go down but they have no proof, all while I keep reading economist and financial advisers and others (not related to any political party) stating otherwise. My husband majored in economics in college and he even said it is not working out the way they are portraying it to (he belongs to no political party and wants a new party to rise up).
I just read my post again because you had mentioned "the rest of the uncalled for nonsense about you, your party affiliation, etc". I wanted to re-read what I wrote. I did not mention you or whatever party you belong to because I do not know. I did say "are you spewing what the liberal politicians are saying". That was not a reference to your party, whichever it may be, but rather just was are you repeating what they are saying. If you are upset that I called you "dear", it was in response to you calling me "dear". And your snippy comment stating "So much for your do your homework command".
If you can dish out the comments but you can't take them back, well I don't know what to tell you, but I've got better things to do with my time than read you accusing me of things yet you do the same thing.
I was truly interested to know where you got that information and I thank you for posting the link. Telling me I go off "half-cocked" and that my post is ignorant....well I just don't have time for that nonsense.
But hey...guess your okay with treating people a certain way, you just don't like the same attitude back.
So goodbye to you too. I have other important things to do. Thank you for the link.
After all these offensive posts, suddently you are - Snow White? GMAB.
[ In Reply To ..]The following is a synopsis of how your posts come across, detailing your methods of communicating points and using specific examples.
First post:
Absolute lie
Lying to us all along
Lies and rumors x2
That’s 4 times in 9 lines you address your opponent by calling them a liar.
Misinformation
Talking down to oldtimer
Belittling
Negative innuendo
Slam
Second post:
Talking down and belittling
Crapcare
Spreading lies and rumors accusations
Repetition
Slam
Buzz word
Third post:
Repeated vague references to basic rules of economics and arguments going nowhere.
Liar innuendo
Buzz word
Slam
Piece of garbage
Crapcare
Misinformation.
Fourth post:
Phony apology.
More repetition making vague unsubstantiated economics references
Playing innocent
Buzz word
Attempted degradation (tell it to someone who cares)
Trying to put opponents on the defensive.
So you see, dear, yours posts have been consistently disrespectful, essentially vapid and void of substance. From where I sit, they sound ignorant, and NO, I am not too shy to say so, especially when that trait is so consistently displayed, and I make no apologies for it. I dish in return what is dished out, no more, no less. You might be surprised to see what you get should you try a more informed and polite approach to making your points. In other words, do us all a favor and ditch the attitude.
good for you - leaf
[ In Reply To ..]in not grabbing that plastic laurel wreath of peace. Cons get all shook up when we come right back at um. They think we are wookies because sometimes we try too long to be reasonable with unreasonables.
Wow - thanks - America wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]Wow!!!! All that research you have done, must have taken you many hours to put together this rambling message. And your a mind reader too? That's amazing.
You really did not need to list everythingâ€Â¦I know what I said. You could have just asked me in each post what I was referring to and I would have simply explained it to you.
Lying to us. – Really? You believe every word spoken? Wow. From the time he campaigned until present day...lies. Sorry you don't like to hear the truth, but really I don't hold it against him...he's a politician. It seems to come naturally to politicians. Truthfully I actually feel sorry for him because these are not his decisions. He is just doing what he is told to do and unfortunately it will work against him. I think he realizes that the American people are not as stupid as they think we are, but again it’s not his choice. He just has to do the job of presenting the information to us. Glad you know how to count though and kept track of how many times I said lie, lies, liar (unsure if I actually said liar), the truth of the matter is a lie is a lie. So you can add another 5 times to you list that I said the word lie, lies and liar (oops there’s three more) LOL.- P.S. I did not call the poster a liar. I said “that (the lie they posted) is a lie. Not the poster. There is a difference when you say “this is a lie by the same people who have been lying to us” versus “you are a liar”. Sorry, I don’t call posters liars, but you seem to have no quams in calling posters names. I call the information they post what it is.
Talking down to Old Timer? Are you a mind reader? And since Old Timer stated “Do YOUR homework, think for YOURself, instead of repeating the pub/insurance company mantra”. I guess your okay with that. Nice double standards you have there. Who knows, maybe you think your earning brownie points by trying to protect other posters you agree with. I have had many conversations with Old Timer in the past and we have agreed on a lot of issues. We were able to post before without someone intervening on her part to tell me whether or not they think I’m talking down to her. Thanks for the concern though.
All the rest of your allegations are just that. They are your opinion and you are entitled to them. That’s what makes this country great. We are all entitled to our opinions. But that’s all they are – your opinions, and everyone has one. For you to think you can read into what you think I meant or that I meant something different than I really didâ€Â¦well I’ll leave that to people like Jeffry Palmer and Uri Giller and the likes. They may be expensive, but at least they get the information right.
Fact is when a post is on your side and they say the same things I do you’re right there saying good for you, thank you, way to go, but since you don’t agree with what I have to say you feel the need to provide a list.
I stopped reading after your list from my first post. The rest seemed like such ramblings I’ve heard at the psych hospital. It was just plain, how shall I say, “ignorant” to use your own words.
So tell me, is it that you just don’t like someone else with a difference of opinion than you or that you don’t like people treating you the same way you treat them?
Yes, I do believe you too should “ditch the attitude”.
Reviewing your empty posts took all of 5 minutes. I am ignoring this one - since I already made my point
[ In Reply To ..]to my satisfaction. Maybe if I simply don't read your instant replay and remain silent, the Energizer Bunny will finally and mercifully wind down, stumble on its front paws and land flat on its cute little face.
Toodle-loo.
guess that apology was insincere - NM
[ In Reply To ..]go figure.
If they dish it out they better be able to take it - What a concept - America wants the truth
[ In Reply To ..]no message.
Has anyone tried this website - if so I have a question - Just me
[ In Reply To ..]I'm on the website, but it looks very basic to me and I can't find where I can put in all the information like the poster here did. I don't know where to choose which plan or the exchange thing spoke about in this message, or where I can choose more or less coverage. I just filled in the 6 bullets on the website and it can't be right because it's for one person, which means if I want to include my spouse my rate is going to double, which is double of what I pay now. I must be doing something wrong so wondered if someone can assist as to where I put in all that other information so it will lower my rates.
The poster mentioned something about going off and reading about the organization. Unsure if that means it's legit or what. Maybe I'm reading more into the message than the poster meant. It looks official enough with the white house picture on it. It's late so maybe I'm not reading the message right, but if someone could tell me where on this website I can input all the other info so I could see what kind of savings I will get.
Thank you
I tried it, and apparently it's only set up for a single person or a family of 4. - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]I have insurance through my job currently, although I won't in a few years when private insurance will be bankrupt since it won't be able to compete with the exchanges.
At that point, I'll have to buy it, in which case it will cost me 15% of my salary, and I won't be able to get any kind of subsidy. I pay about 3% of my salary for insurance now, so how is this plan going to help me or the millions of other upper middle class Americans?
You seriously expect me to be in favor of a plan that will cost 5 times what I'm paying now?
Im thinking - Banish
[ In Reply To ..]that no one seriously expects you to be in favor of anything other than expousing your own excessively narrow and wordy viewpoints. always with a dash of hints of government conspiracies and boogiemen on the left.
Banish, you would be absolutely and totally - correct. nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
You can't even prove your own point yet - anon
[ In Reply To ..]you continue to bash anyone with questions about the health care. When we get onto the site that is provided by someone who is in favor of the health care and we see that our health care costs are going to rise, and we say something you don't like it. You just continue to tote the party line that this is such a great plan your health care costs are going to drop 50 to 80 percent or more, it's perfect, the government is really looking out for us, but we show that with your calculations our health care cost will rise, you don't like that. And instead of providing us with some hard facts and places we can go to to check it out you come back and trash the poster for posting his/her opinion and what she has found.
What that does is make people doubt this bill is any good. And you protecting it without proof gives us even more worry this is not a good bill.
But you know what...none of this matters. The people of the country don't matter. They are going to try and pass it whether or not they have the votes and weather or not America wants it. They don't care because it doesn't affect them. They still have their 5 star health care - which by the way have you not understood how bad this is that they won't even take it themselves AND they will not allow us to join their health care plan.
So whatever is said on this board, all the links, etc does not good. The lefts will keep sprouting the lies they are being fed while the rest of us read and listen and say "wait a minute, something is not right, 2 and 2 are not adding up".
But in the end it doesn't matter what we think. We can only pray that the right thing will be done. We can only hope that they will not have enough votes. And if they do we can only hope that for the first time since he's been president he will tell the truth. But I just don't know. It doesn't help to know that I trusted and voted for Bill Clinton. I was mesmorized by his good looks and appeal and then I was lied to and my taxes went way up (the exact opposite of what he promised everyone).
All I can say is I hope everything will work out for the best.
As for your post....no facts to back it up? No want to trash the poster for having an opinion. I get it.
if I could give you a treat - banish
[ In Reply To ..]You jump through the hoop more predictably than Lassie. Good job!
Such a good representative of the progressive party, Timmy. - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]Rather than dialogue, you want to insult. Not capable of a cogent thought?
Obamacare constitutes the largest tax increase - see message
[ In Reply To ..]"ObamaCare constitutes the largest tax increase in American history and shatters the previous record, admitted self-described socialist and MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O’Donnell yesterday.
When MSNBC anchor Joe Scarborough asked O’Donnell about the overhaul bill on his radio show, O’Donnell said ObamaCare raises taxes by almost $500 billion.
Obama’s historic tax increase nearly doubles the previous record-setting tax that O’Donnell helped craft as Democratic Chief of Staff to the Senate Finance Committee during the Clinton administration.
Even O’Donnell conceded that proposing the largest tax increase in American history during a painful recession and double-digit unemployment was a foolish misadventure.
“We liberal Keynesians do not raise taxes in recessions,” said O’Donnell. “We raise taxes when you’re making money. That’s when we raise taxes. And we love to do it.”
On the subject of groundbreaking admissions, remember when O’Donnell criticized the “unprecedented” use of reconciliation to pass ObamaCare.
A transcript of the exchange between Scarborough and O'Donnell, which aired yesterday and was replayed on today's "Morning Joe," can be found below:
[Clip from Joe Scarborough’s radio interview with Lawrence O’Donnell, which aired yesterday]
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Lawrence O’Donnell, you were part of the largest tax increase of all-time–
LAWRENCE O’DONNELL: –The biggest.
SCARBOROUGH: –with Bill Clinton. 250 billion dollars. You say Barack Obama’s health care bill will double that–
O’DONNELL: –Almost
SCARBOROUGH: –and will raise almost 500 billion dollars.
O’DONNELL: And do so–and here’s the really important economic principle that’s shocking for anyone who’s take the introductory course: they’re going to do it in a recession. You know...
[Laughter]
O’DONNELL: We, we, we liberal, we liberal Keynesians do not raise taxes in recessions; we raise taxes when you’re making money. That’s when we raise taxes. And we love to do it.
[Back in the studio]
SCARBOROUGH: And Lawrence does love to do it.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, co-host of “Morning Joe”: Very good point.
SCARBOROUGH: But how fascinating, though, Lawrence, the liberal, has given Republicans a great talking point. Largest tax increase ever, in the middle of a recession, when real unemployment’s in double digits–that’s probably where the debate’s going to be and not on the slaughter rule this fall."
Thank you for this post - anon
[ In Reply To ..]This is what I have been saying all along. It is going to be the worst of the worst for our country, and people (economists and others) have been saying that it will bankrupt our country within four years. Many people suffered under Clinton and knowing it will be worse than that is just too horrible to think about. We had nothing, worked 40+ hours a week (2 incomes but certainly no where near rich). Every year we kept having our taxes raised to take out more money, but every year on top of the 36% they were taking out we owed an additional 4-6K. We certainly were not rich. Lived in a 1 bedroom apartment, used car, no nice wardrobe, no lavish dinners out...nothing....people were losing their homes all around us. It was absolute hell during the Clinton years and now to be facing that again... Well I think its a sad day in America when Americans are okay with this just because we have a democrat in office.
full of false statements and assumptions - Polly
[ In Reply To ..]but where are those calling this chick a driveby poster?
But, of course, if she was on YOUR side, she would be - full of facts. You are so predictable.nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
more false statements and assumptions NM - leaf
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Dear Polly - chick
[ In Reply To ..]What constitutes a drive-by poster?
Because "this chick" is not a drive by poster - anon
[ In Reply To ..]I have been posting here for over a year, and I post my opinions on issues. Don’t do “drive-by’s”. If anyone is a “drive-by poster” it is you. Maybe you should look up what that means. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a “drive-by”, and calling anyone that, you of all people should know better. I am entitled to post my opinions, thoughts, and articles here. I happen to agree with the poster I was replying to. I wasn’t replying to a post of yours. I stated what it was like under the Clinton administration and why I don’t want to go through that again, and neither do my family and friends. It was like living in hell. We had no future and no hopes for a future. Sorry if I don’t want to go through that again.
You show up today and all you are doing is insulting anyone who doesn’t agree with you and calling them names. What I posted is the truth. There was no “false statements and assumptions”. What I wrote is what happened and what will happen from everything I’ve been reading (and please don’t make the assumptions of telling me what I read- you don’t know that either).
Calling people “anti-Obamites” just because people don’t praise him up and down every day. Saying people are “dragging the discourse in this country down to a level that would have horrified our grandparents generations”. That is a false statement and assumption on your part.
You don’t like that people question President Obama’s birthplace but you’re perfectly fine with people questioning John McCain’s birthplace. You are not okay with people calling him a socialist but you are okay with people calling Bush a Nazi. You are not okay about the poster of his face as a joker but you are okay with the poster of Bush’s face painted as the joker. And I’m sure you were okay with the posters saying “I’m here to kill Bush” and “Kill Terrorist bomb their house, kill Bush bomb his house” “Save mother earth, Kill Bush (with the “u” as a swastika sign). Oh yeahâ€Â¦. “Bush is a disease, death is the cure”, and all the other signs like that with swastika's and SS markings, and you don’t like that some called Obama a liar at the State of Union (he did not scream, he called out liar), but yet you are okay with the democrats that yelled out liar when Bush was giving a speech. You need to look at things objectively and you are not. Your posts state its okay for your side to do it, but not okay when the shoe is on the other foot.
Being right or wrong...this is politics, this is not your basic math where 2 + 2 = 4. I understand you think your side is always right, but nobody is trying to “rip this country apart”. If it is anyone it is that way of thinking that “Obama and the Democrats are always right, never wrong, perfect in every way and we can say whatever we want about Conservatives but don’t dare say anything about democrats or we’ll tear you to shreds” attitude that IS ripping this country apart.
People overall are good people, especially if they can look at things objectively. Sometimes people have to stand back and admit they are wrong when they are. But yes, there are two sides to a story. There are two sides when parents divorce, there are two sides when someone is wrongly accused of a crime. There are two sides when siblings are fighting. There are two sides. Whichever side you choose to side with, that does not necessarily mean it is the right side.
People in the country are disagreeing with policies. They see the country headed in the wrong directions and are very concerned with their future. We don’t put on the blindfolds and say, well he belongs to our club (party) so anything he does is okay. People have the right to be concerned, after all the decisions they are making are going to affect our livesâ€Â¦not theirs, ours. To act like the other sides opinions and feelings don’t matter is wrong. There are many people who voted for him (I’ve heard about half the people that voted for him), who are not happy with what is going on and some have come out (bravely) and stated they wished they had not voted for him. I don’t know one person who said they didn’t vote for him but wished they had.
But calling people liars and haters is just uncalled for in your post where you said “You are lying, hating and trying to disrupt democracy.” That in itself is hate speech. Then that’s not bad enough I read further and you did a drive-by with “your paranoid poisonous attitude is what is making you sick. nm – Polly”
Then all the other nasty’s you spat upon whoever didn’t agree with you. Your post here sounds like you are trying to incite a gang up from other posters? I hope not, you should not be asking other people to join in with your paranoia (sorry, hated stooping so low to call you what you call others, but there was no better word), but next time if you want to post your opinion in a calm and non-insulting way that’s one thing, to ask people to join in with you and continuing with the trashing is another. If you can discuss things in an adult manner with facts to back up your claims that would be one thing, but reading the venom being spat out is not worth the time.
whatta rant still chock full of assumptions - fg
[ In Reply To ..]and false overgeneralized statements. But since you post these long screeds daily for "over a year" they obviously release the valve on your straining gas bag so it serves its purpose.
Your story is not believable, the math does not - compute. nm
[ In Reply To ..].
What doesnt "compute" is Obama saying his bill will - not add to the deficit. Only gullibe
[ In Reply To ..]citizens would believe that. Fuzzy math is part of Obama's being.
Tell that to my tax person who did the taxes - and the government who billed me
[ In Reply To ..]And I don't care whether you believe it or not. I lived through the hell. I don't want to again.
anon
I agree. No credibility whatsoever. - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
You are Welcome - see message
[ In Reply To ..]I hear you. The Clinton years were
he%#. Now with obama, it is only going to get worse. Where do they think we are going to get the money to pay for this piece of crap HC. Taxes of course, with everything they can throw at us, the America people.
I am looking forward to November, time to clean up the "HOUSE."
Woe is me redux - Trigger
[ In Reply To ..]what a world, what a world. . .
The facts are there. People have done the math - anon
[ In Reply To ..]You are absolutely correct. Not only will premiums rise, but also will our taxes.
November - yeah baby....bring it on! Finally will get the house back in order.
I remember the Clinton years well, and NOT fondly. - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]Our taxes were 25% higher than they are now, plus since we didn't have a house we didn't get that deduction. Every year, we always owed, even though we had 5 people in our household and our income was 60 to 70k. The Bush tax cuts have been a welcome relief, and when they are allowed to expire, the taxpayers will really feel it!
Insert background wailing violin refrains, a single racking sob - and tears rolling down both cheeks.
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Wow, such caring from a bleeding heart liberal. - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]Color me not surprised.
Better a bleeding heart than no heart. But then - Sick Of It~
[ In Reply To ..]again, no heart seems to be what you are most comfortable with. What a surpise.
Wow, you guys are getting desperate! - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]Rasmussen poll says Republicans ahead of Democrats in Congressional races by 10 points. Biggest lead since they've been polling this, and reverses the 8 point lead Dems had last year.
I think it's hysterical. You finally got a chance to run the country after all these years, and you totally f'd it up. America doesn't want what the progressives are selling, LOL.
Rewriting history and realtime misrepresentation of facts - merits disdain, not compassion.
[ In Reply To ..]If you came up owing year after year, perhaps you needed (duh) to adjust your withholding.
As a single parent renting a house, making less than $35,000 a year, I was able to save enough money during Clinton years to pay cash for a condo in 2000, right around election time. I could have never accomplished that under Ws reign, since home values started to bubble out of control right after his line-in-the-sand speech. Your story isn't aligned with my reality. Sorry, no dice.
If we had to adjust our withholding that much, we would have been on foodstamps! - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]Did you know that the constitution says the government is only supposed to collect taxes to pay for the defense of the country and a few other things, like the roads, etc.
In other words, they are not supposed to ever have a surplus!!! Do you seriously not understand that? The only income the government has is from us, the citizens, and they are only supposed to take from us the bare minimum that is needed, as stated in the constitution.
But I bet you think it's a good idea to give the government more money than you owe out of every paycheck, interest free, so that you can get a refund in April....and then you celebrate!
you of all people - veronica
[ In Reply To ..]know that was YOUR problem, nobody else's. Other people managed quite successfully during that time so obviously it is something wrong with your money management skills. Don't expect any sympathy or help from anyone baby. Its a dog eat dog world and only the strong survive.
"You people?" What is THAT supposed to mean? - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]nm
you OF ALL people - veronica
[ In Reply To ..]Sorry. I assumed since you could type, you were a people. forgot about chicken beaks. did not mean to offend non-humans.
ROTHLMAO! NM - Sick Of It~
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Not a misrepresentation - you probably don't remember - because you probably voted for him
[ In Reply To ..]Hence anything that party did was a-okay for you.
I, my dad, mom, grandparents, cousins, in-laws, friend after friend after friend lived through the Clinton hell years. Eight long years, and the terror of the possibility of loser VP Gore making it. But America got lucky.
So nice you had everything. Here on the west coast we are a single family, no kids, no house, no nothing, and yet they took. I paid over 30% in taxes and at the end of the year owed. I contacted that very own organization and asked them personally what I could do to stop getting a $3000+ tax bill at the end of the year. We adjusted our withholding to what they said. Guess what - the following year we owed $1700. Wow....wasn't that grand!
After Bush took office our taxes went down. We were able to move from our dingy mold infested 1 bedroom apartment to a house and lived like real human beings. We finally had a savings account. Finally took a decent vacation after 8 years. Was able to buy a new car, save some money and start building a retirement account.
Now I'm told that I don't deserve that money and that I need to share it with those who don't make as much as me. I don't know them but they have as much right to my hard earned money as I do.
Im sorry to say but your story is more like an episode of Fantasy Island. I'll stick with reality. Got the Tax statements and canceled checks for proof.
Sorry, no soup for you.
Nice try though.
Scarborogh is a joke. Try reading the content of the bill. - You are grossly misinformed (hint, hint).
[ In Reply To ..]Unless you make more than $200,000 as an individual or $250,000 as a couple, your taxes will not go up. Period. End of story.
You believe that?! Its impossible. Any intelligent - economist knows this, which Obama has no clue
[ In Reply To ..]The only way to pay for the bill is for EVERYONE to pay higher taxes. Gee, and have you ever really tried reading the content? It is the most confusing, bloated bunch of garbage. There is NO way these senators have read it either. They should simply burn the thing. ..disgrace.
Try reading the post - hint hint
[ In Reply To ..]I was referring to what Larry "Scary" O'Donnell was talking about.
You are right though that Joe Scarborough is a joke along with the rest of the folks at MessNBC.
I am only interested in what will be encoded in HCR, - lame interviewers who constantly interrupt
[ In Reply To ..]their guests whenever they get off the Scarborough script. Neither Scarborough nor O'Donnell are penning HCR. The tax scheme is clearly spelled out there. Like I said, read the bill, and forget the interview. It does not count.
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