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Are people finally catching on? Of course, (sm)

Posted: Apr 6, 2014

o is never going to approve the Keystone Pipeline. He doesn't want jobs. Please, please, people, it's not rocket science. Look at his record. Job growth has gone DOWN, not up, since he came into office.

;

And if you took out Texas and North Dakota - sm

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Who are booming BECAUSE of oil, the U/E rates would be SKY HIGH..This man is killing this country.

Keystone - me

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Jobs at any cost to the environment? Ship the oil to China...yeah! You obviously don't live anywhere near the affected areas.

Environmentalists - sm

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and all their threatening, hot air, carbon dioxide-producing speeches are completely ignored by me now ever since Al Gore was exposed as the biggest phoney out there. Look at the millions of dollars wasted on Solyndra, Tesla, etc. And Tesla, oooooh, don't even get me started. It's good for the environment, but wait, the electricity needed will to run a Tesla will cause more usage of coal. We need to get off foreign oil. I think the US is more technologically advanced now and we can produce our own oil AND develop safe alternatives in the meantime until we are completely energy independent.

And produce jobs to boot! - nm

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:-)

Yeah, pollute the country for 35 jobs - maybe the cleanup crew

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But who will pay for the clean up? The taxpayers again?

I would think people would support Tesla - sm

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Personally, I think Teslas are amazing cars and beautifully crafted. They're an American-made car that is forward-thinking and has a real chance to change the way automobiles are made. Why do you think other car manufacturers are going after Tesla? They will sell their cars directly to us, without the need for middlemen (dealerships), and their technology is more advanced. We haven't been pioneers in the auto industry for a long time, and Tesla has the opportunity to change that. Not to mention the boon of giving our citizens more jobs here.

Regarding using coal to support the electricity needs for the cars, I'm not sure that is any worse than using oil/gasoline. I don't know the numbers on that. If you have them, I'd be interested to know which is worse.

I agree on Tesla... - sm

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I don't have the numbers. I was just trying to point out the contradictions caused by the democrats on these environmental issues.

WHAT???? How about supporting cars we can afford - Don't know

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about you but I don't know too many people who can afford a 70K car. I think many cars are beautifully crafted.

We need to support automobile companies that make cars we can afford. Otherwise let support yachts and mansions and all the things we can't afford.

They're expensive now, but I think the price - will come down significantly.

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Tesla is pioneering a new kind of car manufacturing and distribution in America. Of course this first wave of ingenuity is expensive. Once it catches on though, I really think it's going to be more mainstream and affordable.

All they need is 1 good competitor for that to happen. Just one other company to open up and say "We can do this too." I'd bet the farm someone else will step up the plate and take their shot at it, too.

ETA--I just looked at their website and they have a cost calculator that compares the costs of electricity versus gasoline, and also highlights other incentives like tax credits ($10,000 in my state) to help offset the cost of the vehicle. So although it is still expensive, there are also things that help bring that cost down.

http://www.teslamotors.com/true-cost-of-ownership

Besides that, it would be awfully nice to have an American-made car that doesn't look like a clunker and can make it over 25,000 miles without some kind of major repair.

True. I remember when only rich people could - afford video games & cellphones!

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*

Oh, I don't know. Our 1998 Buick get 30 mpg and has over 100K on it - Truthhurts

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The engine is one of the best. We've bought 3 cars with this engine since 1995. The engine has never failed us. The first one had electrical problems (we believe it was a flood car); the second blew it's transmission, but it was shaky at best when we bought it for $100. We're still driving the 3rd car.

All 3 got 30 mpg and about 32 mpg highway.

Yes, I'll pick up a couple of them when I buy my next - tiara, mercedes and fur coat

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"Without the need for middlemen (dealership)" - Trigger Happy

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Yes...let's cut out dealerships and more jobs. Not to mention that those are so expensive that most people couldn't afford to spend that kind of money on a vehicle. Not to mention the charge time and that those vehicles are not for long travel. So go ahead and take a really long trip in one and see how far ya get! Besides, what happens to the batteries? You'd be insane to try and replace one if they ever went bad. Might as well buy a new one at another 70K. Also need to consider that vehicles like that use a lot of electricity in their dash boards with all the new gadgets. That also lessens the battery life for driving. You plug a car in to charge and you are still using fossil fuels so I really don't see where you have gained much here but that is just me.

Dealerships will still be around, and Tesla is - creating jobs here.

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.

You going to buy one? - Truthhurts

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2013 Tesla Model S
MSRP $71,070 - $94,900K

The effective monthly cost of electricity to run the car: $609.

Only the Hollywood Elites and Congress/President and other millionaires/billionaires will be able to afford one.

I would LOVE to buy one. The $609 - includes the auto loan

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That number is not the cost of the electricity. That's factoring in the entire cost of the car per month. $609 a month in just electricity would be insanity. I suggest you take a gander at the "Cost of Ownership" link posted above. Gasoline costs much more than electricity.

I just bought a Lexus and I'm guess that by the time I'm ready for a new car, I'll be able to afford a Tesla.

I made a small mistake. The overall MONTHLY cost is $609 - Truthhurts

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but the ESTIMATED MONTHLY PAYMENT is $986 for a $71K Tessie with 10% down, but they're being kind by giving an interest rate of 3.5% and 6 years instead of the normal 5 to pay. Yet the FUEL ECONOMY is only 20 mpg.

The electric cost is ESTIMATED at $0.11 kwh. What will it be later. We all know how this administration, through the EPA (I think) trying to push cap and trade through will TRIPLE electric costs. Can't go by that electric cost. It's there already.

Too expensive for a car that costs that much.

I think it's a shame that environmentalism has a bad name for you - just because of Al Gore

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There's only so much oil in the ground.

True, but think of it this way... - Truthhurts

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While we are using fossil fuels, science is developing better products for down the road. Right now, solar and wind are not the solution. As another poster said, the electricity used for electric cars comes from coal-fired plants. They are working on that, too, but in the meantime, they can't shove what DOESN"T work down our throats.

There's an estimated 100 years worth of coal left in this country. I don't know about oil. I'm sure it would be easy to find out, but I'm just about all researched out for today. LOL

electricity for cars comes from other sources in addition to coal - sm

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But 44% comes from coal... - Laura

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The coal industry has progressed by leaps and bounds to clean up the power plants, but it isn't enough for the Obama administration. They are now setting standards for those power plants that would require the plants to use technology that doesn't exist yet. It's their way of eliminating the plants entirely, but what is going to replace the electricity from coal-fired plants? Nobody knows - but it sure isn't going to be as cheap as coal. I am just as green as the next person (maybe not quite), but I'm amazed at the greenies that are against coal and don't realize that they are using it every day in the form of electricity. When the "greenies" give up electricity, I will.

I think most of us are aware that coal is used - for electricity.

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Does that mean we can't look for better ways? I'm not seeing what the problem is.

and 43.7% comes from natural gas and nuclear - sm

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No one is asking anyone to give up electricity. Greenies are not the enemy. It's a complex world.

The State Dept. released the final report in January - Truthhurts

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Their findings:

The State Department concluded in its final environmental assessment issued Friday that the proposed Keystone XL pipeline would be unlikely to alter global greenhouse gas emissions, but officials cautioned that they are still weighing whether the project would meet the test of President Obama’s broader climate strategy.

The report estimated the project would generate about 1,950 annual construction jobs in Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas over a two-year period and contribute about $3.4 billion to the U.S. gross domestic product. It would generate about 50 jobs once in operation.

You can read the whole report here:
http://keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/documents/organization/221135.pdf

Absolutely. I live right near a railroad track where - the oil companies want to run

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fracked oil right through my little town. Fracked oil is highly flammable and explosive - far more than regular pumped oil, and it doesn't take much to set it off. If an explosion like that one that happened not too long ago were to happen in my town, me & my house would be vaporized.

More oil - more transportation headaches - Sandy

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There is an abundance of oil in the Bakken in North Dakota. There is no way to get that oil to the refineries, so it must travel by truck or rail - I don't know the statistics, but with the increase in production, I would assume that there are that many more rail cars and that many more trucks on the road - which means more likelihood for accidents - a car on the road by itself is not likely to run into another car - but add a couple thousand other cars and accidents happen.

Keystone? The Koch Brother Profit Center? - Researcher

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When the corporations start paying their fair share of taxes, doing some meaningful environmental protections, and quit trying to manipulate the American people through purchasing votes, the Supreme Court, and legislation, I will agree with you.

Purchasing votes? You're making me laugh. - George Soros

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nm

They love to twist things. - That's the latest tactic.

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They've tried deflection and diversion, now they're trying twisting. It won't work. LOL...

Stop listening to "Harry Reid" type lies and try looking at facts. - Truthhurts

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The Washington Post started this hullabaloo with an article that the authors later in the same article stated they didn't know how many acres the Koch Bros. leased. Note the following:

In a nutshell, the Post piece, co-authored by reporters Steven Mufson and Juliet Eilperin, ID’d the Koch brothers as “the biggest lease holders in Canada’s tar sands,” and then suggested that this fact would “inflame the already contentious debate about the Keystone XL Pipeline.” The authors admit that their article was based on a report produced by a leftwing organization called the International Forum on Globalization, and that it was IFG’s executive director who provided the material on which the WAPO article was based.

Curiously, the co-authors also go on to say in the piece that they don’t really know how many acres of land the Kochs own in Canada, or what they are doing there, and that in fact “the link between Koch and Keystone XL is indirect at best.”

The Washington Post started this hullabaloo with an article that the authors later in the same article stated they didn't know how many acres the Koch Bros. leased.

Note the following:

In a nutshell, the Post piece, co-authored by reporters Steven Mufson and Juliet Eilperin, ID’d the Koch brothers as “the biggest lease holders in Canada’s tar sands,” and then suggested that this fact would “inflame the already contentious debate about the Keystone XL Pipeline.” The co-authors admit that their article was based on a report produced by a leftwing organization called the International Forum on Globalization, and that it was IFG’s executive director who provided the material on which the WAPO article was based.

The co-authors also go on to say in the piece that they don’t really know how many acres of land the Kochs own in Canada, or what they are doing there, and that in fact “the link between Koch and Keystone XL is indirect at best.”

One answer to that question was provided by lawyer John Hinderaker, who published on PowerLine a devastating rebuttal complete with evidence that the Kochs are not the largest leaseholders in the tar sands, that they have no interest in the Keystone Pipeline, and that in fact construction of the pipeline would actually hurt their financial interests.

As I posted last year, Judith Eilperin is married to a man who writes on climate policy for the Center for American Progress. Then they wrote “Why did we write this article,” because they admitted everything Hinderliter said was true and they acknowledged that their motive had been political. This is what they said, they wrote the article, quote, “to stir and inflame public debate in this election year. That’s why we wrote the piece.”

If it WERE true that the Koch's stood to gain billions, why did Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and Henry Waxman try to start an investigation but drop it because they were relying totally on the Washington Post article?

They know many ways to make a Keystone profit - Listen to the truth

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From Reuters News Service:

The two brothers (Koch) together own virtually all of Koch Industries Inc. — a giant oil conglomerate headquartered in Wichita, Kan., with annual revenues estimated to be $100 billion.

A SolveClimate News analysis, based on publicly available records, shows that Koch Industries is already responsible for close to 25 percent of the oil sands crude that is imported into the United States, and is well-positioned to benefit from increasing Canadian oil imports.

A Koch Industries operation in Calgary, Alberta, called Flint Hills Resources Canada LP, supplies about 250,000 barrels of tar sands oil a day to a heavy oil refinery in Minnesota, also owned by the Koch brothers.

Flint Hills Resources Canada also operates a crude oil terminal in Hardisty, Alberta, the starting point of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline.

The company's website says it is "among Canada's largest crude oil purchasers, shippers and exporters." Koch Industries also owns Koch Exploration Canada, L.P., an oil sands-focused exploration company also based in Calgary that acquires, develops and trades petroleum properties.

Waging War on Obama

The Koch brothers are not run-of-the-mill political opponents. An investigative report last year by the New Yorker magazine on the secretive and deep-pocketed pair have shown them to be "waging a war against Obama." They have bankrolled the Tea Party movement, climate change skepticism and right-wing think tanks, such as the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Competitive Enterprise Institute and the National Center for Policy Analysis.

Through Flint Hills Resources LP based in Wichita, Kan., the Koch brothers provided $1 million in 2010 to the failed effort to suspend California’s groundbreaking 2006 global warming law.

After the 2010 midterm elections, they have become established at the center of GOP power, according to The Los Angeles Times. The paper reported this week that Koch Industries and its employees formed the largest single oil and gas donor to members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Problem is, his blog is one side of the story. - Truthhurts

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I think I would rather believe someone who is NOT a one-sided environmentalist without fairness or facts in reporting, and believe someone who has NO interest in the Keystone project. In fact, this guy fights every project that comes down the pike, but his major fight is over Keystone. The Koch Bros. article that he backs is full of holes and it was disputed and was proven not to be true. But, of course, the truth would never come out in the liberal press, nor would they ever print a retraction.

I posted an article that was neutral. If you don't care to see or read it, fine. I believe that article more than what this guy wrote. Why? Because Sassoon does not BACK UP what he wrote with PROOF. The article I posted does. It points to another article that states: On October 20th, progressive think tank International Forum on Globalization (IFG) released a report...that which has spread like wildfire over the 'net yet does not give any proof, just assumptions. They say they have proof but they don't release that proof.

I also posted a link somewhere in this thread for the government's report on the pipeline which the liberal press also refuses to print.

BTW, an interesting note...Sassoon writes:
"Please direct REPUBLICAN AND MEDIA PARTNERSHIP inquiries to the publisher"

Do you know what that means? I don't but I have an idea what it means, which I prefer to keep to myself for now.

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